Oh sweet baby Jesus no, burn AI to the ground, humanity can't be trusted with it

Agema

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Although I can't help but point out that there will very obviously be a lot of AIs that won't bother paying for anything at all, ever: they'll just scrape anything and everything. I severely doubt that there will ever be a way to hold them accountable - even if there are notionally laws, I doubt enforcement will be effective.

One can consider for instance many clothing companies that just rip-off high fashion and produce illegally similar items at low cost. Sure, occasionally, they might be sued. But they're sued on a fraction of the goods, and for sufficiently little, that it's no deterrent. That's exactly how AI would function: you can sue, but it'll barely be worth it. At best I suppose it would be some justice if at least something could be claimed off them for stealing people's work.

But I think potentially far more tempting is to simply say AI output cannot be copyrighted. The argument for copyright is that inventors should have the gains of their intellectual output to make creation worthwhile. But if there is no human inventor, this logic simply does not hold anymore and there is no pressing need for copyright to exist. Not that that stops AI content annihilating the ability of human producers to earn just by swamping them.

But I would argue denying AI generated content any form of intellectual property rights (not just copyrights but patents as well) could be a huge boon for humankind, because to some extent advances can be slowed when locked behind intellectual property rights: this is after all the trade off to allow inventors to get the profits of their creativity.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Although I can't help but point out that there will very obviously be a lot of AIs that won't bother paying for anything at all, ever: they'll just scrape anything and everything. I severely doubt that there will ever be a way to hold them accountable - even if there are notionally laws, I doubt enforcement will be effective.
One of the interesting things the guy they are talking to did was make a tool that can pretty easily detect when someone uses ai to make music and to detect that scarped data. Ai scrapping compressed data will be missing a lot of data and if you know what will be different between the master and what was uploaded to a music site, which is pretty easy to do since compression gets rid of a ton of sound that we just can't hear and you can't insert that sound back or fake it since ai only knows what goes into it. At the very least this can be used to stop a flood of ai music onto music sites.

I have a feeling no matter what ai will eventually be able to be copywritten. The ai companies are going to be putting a lot of effort into making that law when more people realize its not owned. Either that or copywrite laws in general will be heavily loosened so they can get away with data scrapping. Its probably way cheaper for them to try and change the law then to purchase more stuff that has ever been created ever to train their rather shitty ai that can only get about 80% of the way there.
 

Agema

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I have a feeling no matter what ai will eventually be able to be copywritten. The ai companies are going to be putting a lot of effort into making that law when more people realize its not owned. Either that or copywrite laws in general will be heavily loosened so they can get away with data scrapping. Its probably way cheaper for them to try and change the law then to purchase more stuff that has ever been created ever to train their rather shitty ai that can only get about 80% of the way there.
I'm thinking here of stuff like DRM, which has been used to create forms of stupid rent. For instance, in the old days, you needed your car fixed then any sufficiently trained mechanic could do it. Now unless it's an obvious fault, you need to pay the car maker for a special gizmo to identify the problem, and if you try to get round paying them for that gizmo then you have committed an honest to god, actual crime. This has absolutely no benefit to customers or car repairers, it's just a tool to gouge them by the car industry. Same idea with printer ink: you're artificially locked into stupidly outrageous ink prices by DRM when it could cost a miniscule percentage were actual competition allowed to occur.

Just as DRM has abused to gouge us, so every goddamn AI company - and potentially a lot of major league producers - are looking very hard at how they can fuck everyone else in order to keep a ton of profits for themselves. They absolutely will rob everyone else blind. I wonder if our governments will have the will or sense to reject this, but deep down I fear they'll be bought into line by the incredibly deep pockets of the tech industry.
 

Phoenixmgs

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I don't even understand how people even like AI-generated music as it's so generic sounding and it's pretty easy to identify AI vocals as well. Though I don't understand how anyone likes stuff on the Top 40 either so, I guess, people are getting what they deserve.
 

ExtraWildGames

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THIS actually pisses me off

This is an absolutely terrible idea to have fully procedurally generated games by AI with no handling of game rules/logic, world space or physics by a human,

Wtf are they thinking!?
 

Agema

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I wonder, can CEOs prove their job can't be done by AI?
It doesn't matter whether AI can do your job as well or better than you can. What matters is whether the AI company's boss can persuade your boss that the AI can do your job cheaper than you can.

A corollary of this is that the AI company boss will never be able to persuade your boss that AI will do his job better than he can.
 

Chimpzy

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Mayhaps things not entirely fucked. Only mostly.
 
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Agema

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Mayhaps things not entirely fucked. Only mostly.
There is a line of thinking that AI is a mirage, a false dawn. Like Zuckerberg's "metaverse", except much bigger scale and longer before the truth becomes clear.

AI's never to going to truly offer what it promises, but it will along the way offer exciting opportunities for some people and companies to make a massive, shit-ton of money before reality dawns and demands a dramatic downwards correction. AI developing companies will make absolutely sure that they have diversified thoroughly before the correction kicks in.

I wonder, for instance, if there aren't a load of companies working on AI not because they seriously believe that they can compete or that the dream will materialise, but because investors are so damn hot for it. Then investors throw money at them, and it makes everyone think their company has amazing growth opportunities, their stock price soars, and they use that to fund acquisitions of real opportunities and potential competitors of the future. For instance, that's basically what Musk has already done with xAI: he used it to bail out his financially unviable social media platform.
 

Satinavian

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AI's never to going to truly offer what it promises, but it will along the way offer exciting opportunities for some people and companies to make a massive, shit-ton of money before reality dawns and demands a dramatic downwards correction. AI developing companies will make absolutely sure that they have diversified thoroughly before the correction kicks in.
The company i worked for has also developed an AI tool. For a specific, clearly defined task. And it works and gets sold now for quite a lot of money. It absolutely replaced jobs. Jobs of boring repetitive work that at the same time require deep expert knowledge and can cause costly mistakes. Jobs both high paying and still hard to fill. It was repititive enough for the AI to eventually learn it through millions upon millions of cases, more than any human could ever review. And this has all only been possible because the task it is trained for has such clear boundaries.

And no, our company never looked for investors. It has been fully privately owned by founder families for half a century, never took any dept or outside money. It also didn't neglegt the core business to pivot to AI.

But everytime i look at some tech bro talking about what AI will "soon" be able to do or how they need more money without giving details for what exactly, i don't feel that this is remotely the same thing.
 

Agema

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But everytime i look at some tech bro talking about what AI will "soon" be able to do or how they need more money without giving details for what exactly, i don't feel that this is remotely the same thing.
This is what I mean, though.

OpenAI - which we could envisage as the leader in the field - is asking for eye-watering sums of money. It doesn't really make any money though - inasmuch as it charges anyone, it loses money on its transactions. Some of the more complex stuff racks up mind-boggling losses.

Numerous blogs suggest OpenAI is unsustainable. Even if it attempted to monetise its searches much more aggressively, it still wouldn't be sustainable. It's expecting tens of billions in investment money in the next year or two and it will blow right through that alarmingly quickly, with no clear idea of where more funding will come from. Rumours are that Meta is going to give up AI development.

One might note of course that OpenAI appears to have made... a social media platform. This might reflect to some degree antagonism between Altman and Musk (you muscle in on my field I'll muscle in on yours), but if you ask me, it's what I mean by taking investor money nominally for AI and using it to invest in other projects likely to get a return. OpenAI's AI might implode, but that doesn't mean management and investors can't walk away with some nice, shiny products.
 
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Whoever inevitably sticks it out (and knowing humans that’s a given) will essentially control the future.



This might’ve ultimately been Biden’s biggest accomplishment in limiting China’s access to the world’s most advanced chips.