Okay...because I'd like the subject to be discussed somewhat respectfully...

[Stewie Plisken]

Is the solution actual aggression? If the rules aren't enforced there, then I can't imagine that improves the level of conversation. Instead of arguing, you can just insult people, and that just makes everyone salty, especially since it's attached to a name.

There's only so much you can say in response to "you're an idiot". It's clear, it's concise, it's a lot more fruitful and honest than just going in circles recycling the same argument, trying to 'win', because you can't outright say what you think about someone else.

Maybe a better solution would be cracking down on posters who are baiting and trolling.

It's impossible to determine with absolute certainty. Passive aggression relies a lot on tone and often that gets lost in writing. Especially in a forum with a community that's so diametrically opposed in a lot of subjects, you'd end up with an active user-base of five people talking about ponies and kittens in every thread, in fear of getting hit with a ban. That's not productive either.

 

[Caedite Eos]

Adding a paywalled shit-talking section to a forum that's been losing a lot of members, and has been struggling in general seems so crazy that I wonder if it's the equivalent of opening more blood vessels on animal who's throat you've already slit.

Apparently a lot of people got past the paywall for free when one of the devs left and just handed out premium accounts. To everyone.

Except me.

So that means that now you have the option to spend money to gain access to a dirty basement, when (and no disrespect intended) a single issue with moderation would leave you unable to make use of it. That's a bit rough.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

None taken. My mouth has been getting me into trouble since I was a kid.

And yeah, pretty much. If you didn't get a freebie, there's a paywall to use Baby's First /b.

 

[Drathnoxis]

It's been 5 days and I've almost forgotten there are forums outside of the Wild Wild West. Things feel so much more laid back, it's almost like we're back to a pre-Gamergate Escapist. I think it's the most fun I've had with the site in years!

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Wild West Best West. Have all the funsies

 

[runic knight]

This seems like a great idea, and this is coming from someone who can't post there yet. Might be able to if I keep hearing good things and decide to pay for a sub.

Lets face it, these forums, especially the heavy debated based ones like the R&P and later GiD were a passive aggressive nightmare to have any sort of discussion in where the rules themselves were game-ified to get people in trouble and actual discussion only took place below an unbearably hostile soup of snipes, side-commentary and insinuations that only just didn't break the rules. Any idea of a fun post or a goofy image in reply was pretty much guaranteed a strike in the wrong thread. Perhaps exemplified by the banjumper themselves, the forums became so poisonous that actual conversation was kneecapped as instead people sniped at one another and pushed to get people banned instead of actually debating them. Little wonder it made people grow feed up with the forums in general as that attitude infected outwards and the passive-aggressiveness became the norm. While rules have adapted some since the worst of it, there is still a lot of people with a number of strikes that were not removed with the changing of the rules, and there is a hell of a lot of people wanting to talk about various topics without the worry of the Damocles sword overhead. This gives them the means to do that.

And it is funny, reading back some of these posts in this thread, that some view the forum as a bad thing when it is is anything but simply shitposting. People want to have debate and arguments, and finally having a place where they don't have to worry about how their every little phrase might be interpreted the wrong way to be seen and moderated as "rude" while still being on the site they like is perfect for that. So of course some people are going to take it seriously. Why the hell wouldn't they? It is the first time they can actually blow past all the carefully dancing bullshit that is usually involved the discussions in these forums and concentrate on the differences of opinions and arguments. It could easily be see as an actual arena of ideas. And even if they can use less then polite language to let loose a little cathartic rebuttal, it will still probably be a far better and healthier place to hold discussions then have to deal with the absurdities in hostile tone seen and encouraged in discussions elsewhere. Hell, reply with stupid pictures if that is all you feel is needed, it sounds as good idea as any.

Considering how badly the forums are viewed, I highly doubt the new basement will somehow harm its reputation, and it seems to be actually improving it. Hell, people on the site have been trying for years to get a place to discuss the rules and moderation on this site alone only to be met with roadblocks and moderation, so a place where they can be freely discussed among the community is great. That it is mixed in with shitposting and memes is good too. Humor and fun amid threads of serious discussion? Why would that be bad?

Best of all, no one is affected by it in the least unless they participate by choice. Unlike a user group which would mitigate the public nature of public discussion (to say nothing of there still being the group's localized version of moderation), the forum itself seems to best capture the idea of an open forum, and yet still doesn't actually change anything with the existing forums for those who don't want to check it out.

 

[Saelune]

I would have been fine with more leniency. I do think honesty is a good thing, even if it can be...tense sometimes. But I don't think flipping the table was the way to do it.

You can be honest without being nasty, even when you're saying something unpleasant.

Once you start shit-talking each other, any semblance of civility is likely lost. Sure a lot of people have complained about a plague of passive-aggressiveness, but that requires thought and tact. Even if you're being snarky like that, it still requires you to consider what you're responding to, to actually do it successfully.

But just going fuck you only requires a desire to do so.

Plus I avoided places like Reddit and the "chans" for a reason. I didn't want them to follow me here.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Plus I avoided places like Reddit and the "chans" for a reason. I didn't want them to follow me here.

Well Reddit tends to be more circlejerks and echo chambers. I've yet to find a particularly nasty subreddit that doesn't wear the fact that it's a horrible place on it's sleeve.

As for the Wild West forum? After spending a couple days shitposting there, I'm not seeing any particular nastiness that isn't blatantly absurd, or tongue in cheek self deprecation. I mean if the Wild West subforum is proving anything, it's that most active Escapist posters are pretty nice people. I mean the state your most hated user, anyone being serious said hate is too strong a word and doesn't name any names. It's like people here actually care about other forum users and their own reputations.

 

[Breakdown]

It seems a bit strange that the Wild West forum isn't available for everybody. I mean the people who have racked up the most warnings would probably benefit the most from having a place to vent freely without repercussions.

 

[mad825]

It seems a bit strange that the Wild West forum isn't available for everybody. I mean the people who have racked up the most warnings would probably benefit the most from having a place to vent freely without repercussions.

That's the idea. Even though you are free to express yourself, they still want to vet users who have access.

 

[Einspanner]

It seems a bit strange that the Wild West forum isn't available for everybody. I mean the people who have racked up the most warnings would probably benefit the most from having a place to vent freely without repercussions.

I think they're absolutely desperate to make some kind of money, right now. They're not thinking about the two likely outcomes here.

Either the Wild West takes off, and forum traffic moves there effectively putting the entire forums behind a paywall. That could have some near-term benefits, because I think a lot of people here with heavy warning bars and long time, probably will eventually pay for (as one previous person said) "Baby's First /b". That's a potential quick infusion of cash, and they won't run the risk of being banned there so they can stop that form of bleeding too.

However, this would have the effect of ending all new members coming to the forums, since from their perspective they would appear completely dead. In that sense, it's an extension of the user group system, and probably equally drastic in terms of outcome for general traffic.

That's the good outcome. The bad one is that you fracture the few people left on the forums, which leads to unsustainable patterns of posting both in and out of the Wild West as people become bored. After all, when faced with the choice to pay $20 to a website who's management has a history of shutting off the lights without notice, I can't imagine doing it myself. Then again, I only have half a year invested here, not five or six.

At the end of the day though, when everyone who can be pressured to pay, pays, what next? You've killed your public forums, and are hoping that pay walls work better in 2016?

But whatever you do, do NOT ask these questions in the mod chat. I asked a simple, "Why are you doing it this way"? and after a polite, if unhelpful exchange, things got nasty and ended in a warning for me.

Edit: Two warnings now. My guess? This place is going dark at the end of the month, and they're trying to get as many $20 bills as they can and run.

 

[Saelune]

Plus I avoided places like Reddit and the "chans" for a reason. I didn't want them to follow me here.

Well Reddit tends to be more circlejerks and echo chambers. I've yet to find a particularly nasty subreddit that doesn't wear the fact that it's a horrible place on it's sleeve.

As for the Wild West forum? After spending a couple days shitposting there, I'm not seeing any particular nastiness that isn't blatantly absurd, or tongue in cheek self deprecation. I mean if the Wild West subforum is proving anything, it's that most active Escapist posters are pretty nice people. I mean the state your most hated user, anyone being serious said hate is too strong a word and doesn't name any names. It's like people here actually care about other forum users and their own reputations.

I feel like one of those Christian Watchdog groups who watch Family Guy just to be offended, since Ive been lurking it for such reasons. I don't mind silliness, but some of the stuff there is just dumb in my opinion.

As for people being mean to eachother, Id say we should wait for some people to get upset in say, R&P, and feel a need to actually vent before we consider WW a success or not.

 

[EvilRoy]

But whatever you do, do NOT ask these questions in the mod chat. I asked a simple, "Why are you doing it this way"? and after a polite, if unhelpful exchange, things got nasty and ended in a warning for me.

Edit: Two warnings now. My guess? This place is going dark at the end of the month, and they're trying to get as many $20 bills as they can and run.

In fairness that isn't because of anything you specifically did, just an issue with that chat in general. The other day a user or two decided to non stop argue in the group after being told to stop multiple times. Eventually it pissed enough mods off that they started doing a no tolerance thing for off topic discussion in the mod chat.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

Calling someone an idiot is mere self-gratification. It doesn't prove anything and the other guy can always do better, especially if it simply rolls off his back. Since the object was to have a conversation, being the poo-flinger just kills whatever you were trying to prove. Whatever point you had disappears in an instant.

Considering how badly the forums are viewed.

The way this forum is viewed? By who? Forums that are run worse? Reddit and other social media outlets? Hardly worth considering.

 

[Cati]

Wew lad. I was only joking 😮 It's not like le hydra is much of a pain in the ass anymore is it, he's pretty easy to spot by now.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Apparently a lot of people got past the paywall for free when one of the devs left and just handed out premium accounts. To everyone.

Except me.

Don't worry, you're not alone. We're in this together.

Then again, I've been away for many moons.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Wew lad. I was only joking 😮 It's not like le hydra is much of a pain in the ass anymore is it, he's pretty easy to spot by now.

Who is Le Hydra? 'Tis a kewl name if nothing else.

 

[SupahEwok]

Wew lad. I was only joking 😮 It's not like le hydra is much of a pain in the ass anymore is it, he's pretty easy to spot by now.

Who is Le Hydra? 'Tis a kewl name if nothing else.

The banjumper who won't leave. Think they had 2 accounts banned just last week, at least. First account years back was Aelinsaar or something. I don't know if it started in WW but lots of folks refer to them as just "the hydra."

Edit: Heh, no, it was two accounts banned in this very thread. What a pest.

Double edit:

Is the solution actual aggression? If the rules aren't enforced there, then I can't imagine that improves the level of conversation. Instead of arguing, you can just insult people, and that just makes everyone salty, especially since it's attached to a name.

Maybe a better solution would be cracking down on posters who are baiting and trolling.

Then again, it doesn't look like the forum is a result of a long term forward strategy.

Actually, if there's a difference it's actually towards being more relaxed. The fights are more tense, but outside of when two people start lambasting each other in a thread, everybody around them is more loose. And let's face it, even within the rules threads have catfights all the time. Only difference I've seen so far is in language used.

Hell, even with no rules and a paywall, something like 80% of folks airing grievances refuse to name names. There's a fair amount of respect there even without mods watching over conversations.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

When the title says 'discuss somewhat respectively', that does not mean 'insult the OP'.

Besides, of course, the millions-to-billions out there who come from forums who can't even carry a conversation without breaking down into flame wars? Their vote doesn't count. Only a GOOD PLACE to talk can throw rocks. The rest are glass houses.