Okay, who the hell was praising Dragon Age Inquisition?
- Thread starter Zhukov
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The reason DA:I got so much praise when it came out is that it did something that hadn't been done in a pretty long time, if at all; created an open world RPG with a well written story, that didn't totally lose focus on said story. The addition of Bioware's classic conversations also adds to the whole open world thing a lot, and made it more interactive.
The most recent games even remotely similar before Inquisition that would stick in people's minds would be Oblivion, Skyrim, The Witcher 2, and pushing back an age, Morrowind.
Oblivion and Skyrim suffered from classic Bethesda Syndrome; 3 voice actors for the entire world, between bad and fucking horrid mechanical gameplay systems, an ocean of just... shit, where the main story gets lost in 5 minutes to everything else in the world, bugs out the wazoo, and a whole lot of other issues. They're great for those that love them, but they're lacking hugely in the key areas DA:I is... "Stronger" in.
The Witcher 2 was, on the flip side, well executed, but quite small, consisting of only 3 self contained areas, and without the grand scale of other RPGs. Its combat was a bit clunky, but was at least passable. Basically the opposite of Bethesda's titles.
Morrowind was over a decade old, and while it did a lot of things very well, it also suffered from many of Bethesda's core issues, and had a very different gameplay paradigm from what is accepted today.
When Inquisition came out, it had large, sprawling maps, and a large number of them. If you wanted to explore, you could. Each of these maps was filled with world building, unique characters in most of them, and followed through with the theme of the Inquisition, even if only loosely sometimes. The story was never lost, and was constantly re-inforced, even when you were just dicking around. It was also a damn site better than stories like those found in Skyrim, which got even more praise than Inquisition when it came out. Dialogue was well written, well acted, and usually engaging. Few bugs, combat was passable, not bad, though it did have its issues and was rather bland overall, not doing anything to really distinguish itself.
For all of these things, it got lots of praise. It was a basic, but still decent, version of the different Open World formula that people had been looking for for a while.
And then came The Witcher 3. Take everything good from Inquisition, then replace the bad stuff with more good stuff. After Witcher 3 came out, there wasn't really much praise given to Inquisition anymore, as TW3 had 1 upped it in all fields.
Overall, is it a great game? No. Almost no open world games are, in all honesty. They are ALWAYS marred by sub par gameplay, lots of stupidity with crappy mini quests and collectibles, unfocused stories, and a whole list of faults that really could take their own thread.
At the time, Inquisition was one of the better open world games in near a decade. In some ways it still is, its just been utterly outdone by CD;PR.
Besides that fact, I think almost every game coming out these days could have a similar level of criticism aimed at it, and most of the ones from the old times as well. A lot of it still comes down to personal preference while so many games are so full of faults, and we're still figuring out how to make truly great ones.
The most recent games even remotely similar before Inquisition that would stick in people's minds would be Oblivion, Skyrim, The Witcher 2, and pushing back an age, Morrowind.
Oblivion and Skyrim suffered from classic Bethesda Syndrome; 3 voice actors for the entire world, between bad and fucking horrid mechanical gameplay systems, an ocean of just... shit, where the main story gets lost in 5 minutes to everything else in the world, bugs out the wazoo, and a whole lot of other issues. They're great for those that love them, but they're lacking hugely in the key areas DA:I is... "Stronger" in.
The Witcher 2 was, on the flip side, well executed, but quite small, consisting of only 3 self contained areas, and without the grand scale of other RPGs. Its combat was a bit clunky, but was at least passable. Basically the opposite of Bethesda's titles.
Morrowind was over a decade old, and while it did a lot of things very well, it also suffered from many of Bethesda's core issues, and had a very different gameplay paradigm from what is accepted today.
When Inquisition came out, it had large, sprawling maps, and a large number of them. If you wanted to explore, you could. Each of these maps was filled with world building, unique characters in most of them, and followed through with the theme of the Inquisition, even if only loosely sometimes. The story was never lost, and was constantly re-inforced, even when you were just dicking around. It was also a damn site better than stories like those found in Skyrim, which got even more praise than Inquisition when it came out. Dialogue was well written, well acted, and usually engaging. Few bugs, combat was passable, not bad, though it did have its issues and was rather bland overall, not doing anything to really distinguish itself.
For all of these things, it got lots of praise. It was a basic, but still decent, version of the different Open World formula that people had been looking for for a while.
And then came The Witcher 3. Take everything good from Inquisition, then replace the bad stuff with more good stuff. After Witcher 3 came out, there wasn't really much praise given to Inquisition anymore, as TW3 had 1 upped it in all fields.
Overall, is it a great game? No. Almost no open world games are, in all honesty. They are ALWAYS marred by sub par gameplay, lots of stupidity with crappy mini quests and collectibles, unfocused stories, and a whole list of faults that really could take their own thread.
At the time, Inquisition was one of the better open world games in near a decade. In some ways it still is, its just been utterly outdone by CD;PR.
Besides that fact, I think almost every game coming out these days could have a similar level of criticism aimed at it, and most of the ones from the old times as well. A lot of it still comes down to personal preference while so many games are so full of faults, and we're still figuring out how to make truly great ones.
I played it close to release due to a family member buying it for me (points for trying, they know nothing about video games but they wanted super hard to please me, so I played it right away out of a feeling of guilt) and I felt the exact same way:Zhukov said:
as you mentioned, the characters and the occasional bit of "oh that's neat" happens, but it was buried under 5000 pounds of the worst parts of mmo's in between each fun part, and as mentioned, you *have* to do quite a bit of it to get anywhere which doubles down on it being very annoying.
I'm getting sick and tired of these god damn open worlds in all our god damn games, they use it as an excuse to make utter shite sidequests, when the meat of the game is some dry piece of shit that aunt myrtle cooked up from an expired turkey, it's awful.
1. Thing is in Dragon Age's case, you can choose to be a certain origin where you don't suffer from losing your home at all to destrcution, it all depends on perspective, I mean you can choose to not be the Human Noble origin that has the typcial Bioware cliche at all.Zhukov said:
2. Its the little things that makes it different from the rest, I mean I can tell what Dragon Age is from the rest, but thigns like Two Worlds and Bard's Tale and Might and Magic are the epitome of generic.
But I prefer the sameness of Dragon Age Origins than the attempts at making it different from other fantasy stuff in Inquisiton and DA:2.
Everything about DA:2 and Inquisition just looks bad to me aesthetics wise, its different without being memorable.
Its like I rather have a standard looking dragon than some weird creature that claims to be a Dragon.
I really like Dragon Age Inquisition, but then I find my preferences regarding RPGs have changed over time. I don't get really, seriously into fantasy stories or lore any more, and to me, the enjoyment of DA:I is basically being able to get into a groove, switching off your conscious brain and just effortlessly moving from one task to another, and it does that on a level I haven't experienced since World of Warcraft (but with the ability to actually stop playing). It's not a game I play to get immersed or absorbed in, it's a game I play to relax or calm down or switch off on, and that's fine. Few games do that for me in quite the same way.
With that in mind, the biggest thing holding it back for me is the story, firstly because it's actually not very good (structurally, it's a very flawed story) and because it's actually a distraction from the more braindead, floaty, MMO-like experience which most of the game encourages. The dialogue is good, the characters are a lot of fun and I find the whole atmosphere refreshingly gentle and silly in an age where fantasy games in general are trying to be dark (and, in my opinion, only dark souls is actually succeeding) but the whole integration of the story into gameplay doesn't work in DAI. However, that's really my one criticism. Everything else is pretty good. Combat is tight and generally well balanced (unlike Origins which was balanced like a skateboarding cow with a bloated mess of abilities of wildly inconsistent usefulness and the ability to turn invincible with infini-potions) classes feel meaningfully distinct without being completely railroaded, a lot of abilities are viscerally fun to use (which helps with the flow).
If you're not in that mindset, or you're going in expecting super serious best-LARP-ever time, it's not going to work. I don't find that a barrier though.
With that in mind, the biggest thing holding it back for me is the story, firstly because it's actually not very good (structurally, it's a very flawed story) and because it's actually a distraction from the more braindead, floaty, MMO-like experience which most of the game encourages. The dialogue is good, the characters are a lot of fun and I find the whole atmosphere refreshingly gentle and silly in an age where fantasy games in general are trying to be dark (and, in my opinion, only dark souls is actually succeeding) but the whole integration of the story into gameplay doesn't work in DAI. However, that's really my one criticism. Everything else is pretty good. Combat is tight and generally well balanced (unlike Origins which was balanced like a skateboarding cow with a bloated mess of abilities of wildly inconsistent usefulness and the ability to turn invincible with infini-potions) classes feel meaningfully distinct without being completely railroaded, a lot of abilities are viscerally fun to use (which helps with the flow).
If you're not in that mindset, or you're going in expecting super serious best-LARP-ever time, it's not going to work. I don't find that a barrier though.
It's the bioware effect, whenever a new bioware game comes out it's the best thing evar, been the case ever since DA:O.
And it also goes on to win all the awards, especially the escapist ones.
The worst was with DA 2, I'd still take DA:I any day over DA 2 if only because at least the scenery is more expansive and you have some nice vistas once you cleared a zone.
I will however be forever butthurt that the final tier sword you can forge was a preorder/dlc thing, so sucks to be you if you're a sword and board user and want to craft your final weapon, hope you like maces sucker!
Anyways yeh for DA2, it was fascinating seeing how all the initial reviews were gushing (will anyone here ever forget that infamous escapist da2 review?), and how public reaction turned sour so damned fast...And yet DA2 still swept the award of most game sites and competitions that year. Guess even a bad bioware game is still bioware.
Raiku if you must be hassled by a complete stranger into trying a new rpg, give Age of Decadence a spin, came out at same time and was overshadowed by PoE but tis the much better game in all areas save visuals.
And it also goes on to win all the awards, especially the escapist ones.
The worst was with DA 2, I'd still take DA:I any day over DA 2 if only because at least the scenery is more expansive and you have some nice vistas once you cleared a zone.
I will however be forever butthurt that the final tier sword you can forge was a preorder/dlc thing, so sucks to be you if you're a sword and board user and want to craft your final weapon, hope you like maces sucker!
Anyways yeh for DA2, it was fascinating seeing how all the initial reviews were gushing (will anyone here ever forget that infamous escapist da2 review?), and how public reaction turned sour so damned fast...And yet DA2 still swept the award of most game sites and competitions that year. Guess even a bad bioware game is still bioware.
Pillars of Eternity along with Wasteland 2 are amongst the most overhyped yet ultimately disappointing rpgs of recent years, I'd actually legit rate DA:I above either of them.Rangaman said:
Raiku if you must be hassled by a complete stranger into trying a new rpg, give Age of Decadence a spin, came out at same time and was overshadowed by PoE but tis the much better game in all areas save visuals.
I think the OP summed up my feelings about the game nicely. Overall, I was disappointed with DA:I for the same reason I was disappointed with the first Mass Effect: gems of brilliance smothered by tedious bullshit. DA:I just cranked it up to another level.
Haha, yeah, been there.gmaverick019 said:
I own more than a few games because of well-meaning friends and family members. Poor sods wander into a game store like lost lambs and end up walking out with whatever the clerk told them was the current Big Thing.
yep exactly, I was just fucking impressed they got an rpg, I figured with my luck I'd end up with NBA 2k16 or some shit that I would *never* be interested in playing, and even though they were generic fantasy 101, I did enjoy the first 2 games....but apparently even that shred of nostalgia didn't help with inquisition, that damn war table of 8 billion mmo fetch quests killed my interest in that game.Zhukov said:
I'll take this thread as more justification to avoid the sequels altogether, just play DA: Origins and if the story leaves me feeling unfinished, just imagine the continuation myself.
...when I find myself having broken both of my legs and getting the requisite 700 years of sick leave needed to play it "seriously".
...along with the Witcher trilogy...
... but I'll most likely just end up playing Dark Souls again.
...when I find myself having broken both of my legs and getting the requisite 700 years of sick leave needed to play it "seriously".
...along with the Witcher trilogy...
... but I'll most likely just end up playing Dark Souls again.
Why can't we have threads like this when "Next Big AAA Game" is released? Why does it take 2 years to realise the shittiness of said game? Because one thing is certain - it will happen again. The next Bioware/Bethesda/Whatever game will get massive praise on release only for it to suddenly strike people several years later that, hey, it actually was a pretty terrible game.
...I liked it...
Well, ok, to expand more on that - it was ok. Alright. 6/10, would play again. I liked DA:II more (mainly for Hawke and Aveline), but I liked DA:I more than Origins. Combat is an unbalanced mess and the story is Stock Fantasy Disaster Number 17 (both Bioware standards, really) but the world is alive enough that I can kind of deal with those since it's so rare to have a big open game like this that feels... well, organic. I've always liked the little things when it comes to Bioware games (since the main stories are aforementioned 'Stock Fantasy Disasters'), so going through an area and actually seeing the Inquisitions influence grow with things like patrols, refugee camps, outposts and the like as I do things there just hit all the right buttons for me. The characters are all solid (even the one I don't like), and, despite the story being so... generic, I actually like the main antagonist, and found him rather nuanced and oddly sympathetic for someone whose role in the story is 'Standard Evil Overlord Number 3'.
That said, there's a definite Content Overload. There's just... too many side areas. And it's frankly poorly balanced as well - actually doing all the side quests available for you just ends up powerleveling you beyond whatever story quest you're up to; I ended up finishing the game outleveling the final boss by 5, there's just too much. The rewards are also oddly balanced - a lot of the time I'd find random trash weapons or craft a weapon that was miles ahead of the Rare, Legendary Artifacts I was being rewarded. One gathering quest that goes across most of the areas in the game rewards you with fuck all except a couple points of elemental resistance, but by the time you've finished it you can craft gear that makes you damn-near immune to them.
The Power gating is a bit buggered up as well - I get that every area gives you Power so you're not forced to do certain ones, but at the same time you get so much of it they just shouldn't have even made it a requirement for the story quests to begin with (especially since you tend to find enough in the zones the story quests take place in to do the next stage). There's just... no reason to really do any of the side quests since the rewards aren't worthwhile, and there's just so much of it it's understandable why people get burned out trying to finish it all.
As said, it's an... alright game. 6/10. Nice organic world, solid, well-written characters, but plagued by the same problems so many Bioware games have before and a little too overloaded with sidequests, to the point that even the well-written sidequests lose their spark because there's just too many of them competing for space. Also, can someone please teach Bioware how to balance combat properly? My god, I'm either horribly overpowered or hilariously underpowered, there is no inbetween.
Well, ok, to expand more on that - it was ok. Alright. 6/10, would play again. I liked DA:II more (mainly for Hawke and Aveline), but I liked DA:I more than Origins. Combat is an unbalanced mess and the story is Stock Fantasy Disaster Number 17 (both Bioware standards, really) but the world is alive enough that I can kind of deal with those since it's so rare to have a big open game like this that feels... well, organic. I've always liked the little things when it comes to Bioware games (since the main stories are aforementioned 'Stock Fantasy Disasters'), so going through an area and actually seeing the Inquisitions influence grow with things like patrols, refugee camps, outposts and the like as I do things there just hit all the right buttons for me. The characters are all solid (even the one I don't like), and, despite the story being so... generic, I actually like the main antagonist, and found him rather nuanced and oddly sympathetic for someone whose role in the story is 'Standard Evil Overlord Number 3'.
That said, there's a definite Content Overload. There's just... too many side areas. And it's frankly poorly balanced as well - actually doing all the side quests available for you just ends up powerleveling you beyond whatever story quest you're up to; I ended up finishing the game outleveling the final boss by 5, there's just too much. The rewards are also oddly balanced - a lot of the time I'd find random trash weapons or craft a weapon that was miles ahead of the Rare, Legendary Artifacts I was being rewarded. One gathering quest that goes across most of the areas in the game rewards you with fuck all except a couple points of elemental resistance, but by the time you've finished it you can craft gear that makes you damn-near immune to them.
The Power gating is a bit buggered up as well - I get that every area gives you Power so you're not forced to do certain ones, but at the same time you get so much of it they just shouldn't have even made it a requirement for the story quests to begin with (especially since you tend to find enough in the zones the story quests take place in to do the next stage). There's just... no reason to really do any of the side quests since the rewards aren't worthwhile, and there's just so much of it it's understandable why people get burned out trying to finish it all.
As said, it's an... alright game. 6/10. Nice organic world, solid, well-written characters, but plagued by the same problems so many Bioware games have before and a little too overloaded with sidequests, to the point that even the well-written sidequests lose their spark because there's just too many of them competing for space. Also, can someone please teach Bioware how to balance combat properly? My god, I'm either horribly overpowered or hilariously underpowered, there is no inbetween.
Yeah, Avaline was pretty great, huh?Wrex Brogan said:
I liked that she was fairly understated rather than being all omigosh-look-how-awesome-and-charismatic-I-am. She just kinda quietly does her thing while being the backbone of the group.
Also liked that her characterization perfectly fit her role in gameplay. She characterized as a dependable pillar-of-the-community type and she holds everything together by being the tankiest ************ around. She comes across as dutiful and somewhat selfless and, sure enough, in combat she'll be shoving her face in front of blows intended for others.
Oh, and her "romance" consisted of Hawke dropping Bioware pickup lines all day long and Avaline being utterly oblivious.
She's easily my favourite character out of all the Bioware games, just well written and well characterized. I quite liked how her side quests worked with her characterization and showed the negatives of her being so dutiful and selfless, really gave here a well-rounded and grounded feeling, and made her overall arc a very... human one, for lack of a better word.Zhukov said:
And then, you know, playing through the game on the highest difficulty level, fighting a monstrously powerful boss and she's still standing with 100% HP while everyone else is dead. That was good fun. Hell, she's so tanky she doesn't even get stunned during scripted events! Talk about dependable.
Glad I never sunk time into this series or anything close to it. Closest I've probably gotten is playing Oblivion for all of two or three hours.
I'll take The Witcher series any day, and yes I'm still waiting to have a relatively clean slate before tackling 3+DLC.
I'll take The Witcher series any day, and yes I'm still waiting to have a relatively clean slate before tackling 3+DLC.
I liked DA:I's characters and story alright. That's about it though. I complained enough about it when it came out and agree with most of the complaints the regulars here would share.
It has me really worried for Andromeda... but then again, I've kind of written off Bioware at this point. If they surprise me I'll be happy, but if ME goes to shit too... oh well. Can't get any worse than ME3.
It has me really worried for Andromeda... but then again, I've kind of written off Bioware at this point. If they surprise me I'll be happy, but if ME goes to shit too... oh well. Can't get any worse than ME3.