On Anonymous

[Starke]

They hacked the website after a member was provoked, primarily to prove a point, the original hacks had nothing to do with it.

Which makes him dumb enough to rise to the bait. Real skill there. Of course the entire mess was an entire fucking trap so they could try to sue Anonymous in the first place. So yeah, real skillful there.

I would love to know where you heard that they decided to infiltrate HBGary's website solely to prove a point and not find information. The stealing metaphor doesn't exactly work when you consider that they were trying to simply undermine HBGary through information.

Research is your friend. You should get some experience with it. But here [http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/17/hbgary_hack_redux/]'s a quick cheat sheet for you. Anon was provoked by Barr's announcement that they would disclose information about Anon's leadership at the BSides San Fransisco conference.

Anonymous not only took down state websites but also supplied information to protesters, which helped topple the government. As you say it is a fallacy to link the death or disappearance of individuals to Anonymous, blame the corrupt government, not the individuals seeking to help those in a fight, the same goes for Egypt.

No, that's like a man dangling a small child in front of a pitbull and then kicking the dog. Sure, you can blame the dog for what followed, but it wasn't the dog's fault, and no court will agree with you.

And this is not a case of before and after. Anon pissed people off. Anyone who thinks that DDoSing a state website in the middle east will contribute to the collapse of the regime is either insane, so egotistical as to be capable of generating their own gravity well powerful enough to sucking their own head out their sphincter, or too stupid to live. Pick one.

As for "feeding information to protesters"? The only places I've seen information about this outside of Anon's own circle jerk sessions claimed that anonymous individuals were working to feed information around, the same as the anonymous individuals working to circumvent the internet lockdown, but not Anonymous members. Anonymous doesn't get to pick and choose like that, they don't get to include people that aren't part of their membership to make themselves look good.

In the case of Owen, the words of one do not out weigh the words of many.

Depends who it is. In this case it's someone who carried real weight in the organization, even if you didn't realize it at the time.

But, let's face it we're arguing on the internet. You're set in your current beliefs, I'm currently set in mine. Let's just agree to disagree and stop wasting each other's time.

I took an oath long ago not to rest while people were making irrational arguments and claiming it was their opinion, and that was all that mattered, because clearly their opinion was worth more than a rational logical argument.

I will be the first to admit that Anonymous isn't perfect, but they have done good, and they certainly still have the potential to do far more good. I'll wait and see if they can.

At the rate their leadership is being vanned, and the effectiveness of their movement falters in the face of prosecution? No, their time is passing, all they can do now is flail about and claim that someone was hacking their wireless routers all this time.

 

[draythefingerless]

Gonna make this as simple as possible for you. Its a 12 year old acting stupid online. a bunch of mostly 21+ year olds completely wrecked her shit in the HUNDREDS. NOTHING she could have done would warrant this.

Nothing. And guess what? if they had come out from behind their keyboards, instead of being completely slimy poeple dispensing "justice" from hundreds of miles away. They would have all been arrested and put into INTENSIVE THERAPY for harassing in mass a 12 year old girl because she "deserved it"

This is not the way functioning humans adults are supposed to work. This is SICKENING.

Neither should a 12 yo girl function that way.It's her retarded kind that invented the kiddy cyber bullying.Running around fb posting shit on slightly chubby children further ruining their self esteem.You probably don't even know about that problem around the internet and it's not for the lulz or spawned from 4chan/anonymous.

PS:She did deserve it.And I lold when I saw it.

PSS:Thanks for making it simple.Totally reminded me of the whole ordeal and got me cheered up.

No 12 year old deserves that! She's 12 for Christ sakes! When you were 12 did you ever say anything relatively intelligent?

When i was 12, doing stupid irresponsible stuff got me punished. I fully agree with what she got. She will think twice next time she decides to dance around the internet swinging middle finger at everyone. why dont you go in a mall and do that?

Oh, and, this was NewFags. not Anon ideals. NewFags. google it.

There is a difference between doing something and getting admonished in public, and doing something in which you are condemned by a group of people that are mostly trying to humiliate you on the net. Once again, I reiterate, she was 12 and being harassed by a group of people that are probably 21 year old basement dwellers that live at their parent's house.

What is your point here? Because she is 12 she is absolved of all responsibilities? That because she is 12 she cannot get pummeled to the ground when she does stupid shit? This girl teased them. They do not seek out people minding their own business.
Perhaps i am a bit cruel, but if you play with fire, you get burned. the fire doesnt care if youre 12 or 30. You wanna go on the internet and prance about mocking everything, dont go surprised or offended when people maul you down. The world is cruel, and if you dont know so, its your own befault to what happens to you.

Also, if youre 12, you shouldnt even engage in what she was engaging, IE, mocking people, teasing people older than her, and overall, being a camwhore.

In the end you can complain all you want, a 12 year old got punished, and she will live on her life normally, but aware to not fuck with people anymore.

I dont defend those who attack her, but i defend that she was punished with reason.

 

[Sudenak]

And again you sympathize with a group of bullies. What is it with the escapist and going head over heels to defend the name of anonymous? Are you part of the collective? Do they have you scared enough that you can tackle the real issues they impose?

Seriously, I'm tired of these lopsided arguments you people keep coming up with to shine them as "the good guys" its sickening. And guess what? if you even listen to the voice of your readers in the forums, you will see they aren't buying it any longer.

I'm assuming you're a Sony fanboy or summat, and hopped on the "blame Anonymous" bandwagon as soon as you could.

It's just a loosely connected group of internet folk. That do stuff. They don't go out of their to be assholes, nor do they try and bully the little guy. When they organized massive protests of Scientology, was that them being evil?

Also, blindly obeying "the voice of the forums" would probably be the single most idiotic thing that any group could ever do. Seriously. We wouldn't have Unskippable, Extra Credits, Zero Punctuation, and so on, because there's always a chunk of people going "you really lost your touch, not entertaining/right at all, stop making these".

Frankly, I applaud them for tackling an actual issue, which is that everyone is scrambling to find a scapegoat for Sony once more taking a crap on its userbase. And this was Sony taking a crap on their userbase, because if they gave even half a damn about them they would have installed some basic security.

Or should we just only have opinions that kiss Sony's ass, chanting that Anonymous is the New Big Evil in the internet world and that we must band together to stop Them? Just because you disagree, doesn't mean everyone else does. I like Anon, I think they didn't do it. You can't get me to disagree with my opinion.

 

[iDoom46]

If I wasn't browsing one of the /i/ boards right now, I would actually consider whatever your saying. I am looking right now at a 140 post thread of a group of anons just railing this black guy... and guess for what? for nothing basically the thread consensus is "he's a ****** and does ****** things" Its a lynch mob without ropes. And there is nothing warranted about it, there is nothing to be learned its just bullies being bullies. They already dropped his dox, they already harassing him with racist calls they apparently smacked down his myspace page. For. no. reason.

he's just a guy who they settled on for nothing. Sure is justice in here.

Well that's obviously just a bunch of racist fuckwits. They don't represent Anonymous, or even a fraction of the Anon collective. (Don't forget, anybody with a computer and an internet connection is essentially an anon, and most people these days aren't racist.)

Just to be clear, though, are they railing on him just on the imageboard, or are they actively harassing this poor man through Facebook, email, and whatnot? Because there's a big difference.

 

[Nick_Snyder]

Gonna make this as simple as possible for you. Its a 12 year old acting stupid online. a bunch of mostly 21+ year olds completely wrecked her shit in the HUNDREDS. NOTHING she could have done would warrant this.

Nothing. And guess what? if they had come out from behind their keyboards, instead of being completely slimy poeple dispensing "justice" from hundreds of miles away. They would have all been arrested and put into INTENSIVE THERAPY for harassing in mass a 12 year old girl because she "deserved it"

This is not the way functioning humans adults are supposed to work. This is SICKENING.

Neither should a 12 yo girl function that way.It's her retarded kind that invented the kiddy cyber bullying.Running around fb posting shit on slightly chubby children further ruining their self esteem.You probably don't even know about that problem around the internet and it's not for the lulz or spawned from 4chan/anonymous.

PS:She did deserve it.And I lold when I saw it.

PSS:Thanks for making it simple.Totally reminded me of the whole ordeal and got me cheered up.

No 12 year old deserves that! She's 12 for Christ sakes! When you were 12 did you ever say anything relatively intelligent?

When i was 12, doing stupid irresponsible stuff got me punished. I fully agree with what she got. She will think twice next time she decides to dance around the internet swinging middle finger at everyone. why dont you go in a mall and do that?

Oh, and, this was NewFags. not Anon ideals. NewFags. google it.

There is a difference between doing something and getting admonished in public, and doing something in which you are condemned by a group of people that are mostly trying to humiliate you on the net. Once again, I reiterate, she was 12 and being harassed by a group of people that are probably 21 year old basement dwellers that live at their parent's house.

What is your point here? Because she is 12 she is absolved of all responsibilities? That because she is 12 she cannot get pummeled to the ground when she does stupid shit? This girl teased them. They do not seek out people minding their own business.
Perhaps i am a bit cruel, but if you play with fire, you get burned. the fire doesnt care if youre 12 or 30. You wanna go on the internet and prance about mocking everything, dont go surprised or offended when people maul you down. The world is cruel, and if you dont know so, its your own befault to what happens to you.

Also, if youre 12, you shouldnt even engage in what she was engaging, IE, mocking people, teasing people older than her, and overall, being a camwhore.

In the end you can complain all you want, a 12 year old got punished, and she will live on her life normally, but aware to not fuck with people anymore.

I dont defend those who attack her, but i defend that she was punished with reason.

So what if she harassed them. They should just get over it. If they feel "threatened" by a stupid girls actions, such as her being a camwhore and mocking people then... so what. I'm not sure if she will live her life normally after this.

 

[draythefingerless]

Gonna make this as simple as possible for you. Its a 12 year old acting stupid online. a bunch of mostly 21+ year olds completely wrecked her shit in the HUNDREDS. NOTHING she could have done would warrant this.

Nothing. And guess what? if they had come out from behind their keyboards, instead of being completely slimy poeple dispensing "justice" from hundreds of miles away. They would have all been arrested and put into INTENSIVE THERAPY for harassing in mass a 12 year old girl because she "deserved it"

This is not the way functioning humans adults are supposed to work. This is SICKENING.

Neither should a 12 yo girl function that way.It's her retarded kind that invented the kiddy cyber bullying.Running around fb posting shit on slightly chubby children further ruining their self esteem.You probably don't even know about that problem around the internet and it's not for the lulz or spawned from 4chan/anonymous.

PS:She did deserve it.And I lold when I saw it.

PSS:Thanks for making it simple.Totally reminded me of the whole ordeal and got me cheered up.

No 12 year old deserves that! She's 12 for Christ sakes! When you were 12 did you ever say anything relatively intelligent?

When i was 12, doing stupid irresponsible stuff got me punished. I fully agree with what she got. She will think twice next time she decides to dance around the internet swinging middle finger at everyone. why dont you go in a mall and do that?

Oh, and, this was NewFags. not Anon ideals. NewFags. google it.

There is a difference between doing something and getting admonished in public, and doing something in which you are condemned by a group of people that are mostly trying to humiliate you on the net. Once again, I reiterate, she was 12 and being harassed by a group of people that are probably 21 year old basement dwellers that live at their parent's house.

What is your point here? Because she is 12 she is absolved of all responsibilities? That because she is 12 she cannot get pummeled to the ground when she does stupid shit? This girl teased them. They do not seek out people minding their own business.
Perhaps i am a bit cruel, but if you play with fire, you get burned. the fire doesnt care if youre 12 or 30. You wanna go on the internet and prance about mocking everything, dont go surprised or offended when people maul you down. The world is cruel, and if you dont know so, its your own befault to what happens to you.

Also, if youre 12, you shouldnt even engage in what she was engaging, IE, mocking people, teasing people older than her, and overall, being a camwhore.

In the end you can complain all you want, a 12 year old got punished, and she will live on her life normally, but aware to not fuck with people anymore.

I dont defend those who attack her, but i defend that she was punished with reason.

actually it does. Their actions are completely unjustifiable. I can go to many a website and see children acting like complete twats, they are CHILDREN. attacking them because they go overboard is utterly inexcusable. adult man jumping down a childs throat because she has a loud mouth is a extremely unnerving and creepy thought. Its outright terrifying.

you fail to see this is the internet, not real life. they didnt ram down her throat and gave her mental scarring or raped her. stop overblowing this. they harrassed her and humiliated her. if she was mature enough to do her idiotic actions, she wuold be mature enough to get the consequences. you try to justify your point by overblowing the consequences of what happened. and guess what, i can go to amany websites and see children get humiliated. hell ive spent a good time reading about troll events where said bully teens got trolled accordingly.

terryfying? you need to get out of your bubble. if this is terryfying, you seriously need to open your eyes. youll get a heart attack when you realize what terryfying really means. this is mildly amusing and somewhat slightly haunting. ive yet to see someone get more than a few mail at home for this. anyone of ourse, who actively stalks a child is wrong, but no such thing happened. they exposed her life, exposed her address and humiliated her in public. no man went up to her and asked her to get in his candy van.

in the end, you defend that children are excusable of punishment for their actions(a reason i despise our society in this day n age), while i defend that a human being, if conscious and aware enough of his actions, should get punished, lightly if so, for said actions.

we offer different points of views, wich arent perfect, and subject to neither wrong or right.

you actively bully, insult, mock and tease people, you get and punished humiliated. doesnt matter she was 12, she was mature enough to do those horrible acts, and she learned not to do them again, at no cost to her sanity, mentality or body. shell live on to be a lil whore in real life.
thats my belief. :/ sorry to bust your balls on the whole unified ideal world.

 

[Ericb]

Don't feed the troll. Some people always seem to forget that.

I'll forgive some potential newbies here, but even you Shamus? I'm disappoint.

(...) and most people these days aren't racist.

God bless your innocence and may one day those words be nothing but truth.

 

[Chatboy 91]

But, let's face it we're arguing on the internet. You're set in your current beliefs, I'm currently set in mine. Let's just agree to disagree and stop wasting each other's time.

I took an oath long ago not to rest while people were making irrational arguments and claiming it was their opinion, and that was all that mattered, because clearly their opinion was worth more than a rational logical argument.

Fair enough, I agree that opinion does not set precedence over logical arguments. I hope I didn't come across that way, I was simply working off of my own knowledge on the issue.

 

[Sudenak]

okay, since you fully went attack mode i'm not even going to bother hard with this post. But I will clear a few things up for you. I've never owned a console system since the snes. i've played a few sony games in passing, but if i'm going to be called a fanboy of anything it is the PC. Which i've been playing games on since the AppleII from yesteryear. Your weird illogical baseless arguments about being butthurt are completely unfounded and wrong.

Edit: sorry, I have a DS. Not sure if you count handhelds or not.

Come back with a better argument that isn't based on fallacies.

Nice job of dodging the point because of my opening. My assumption had been that only a fanboy of Sony could possibly be seeing Anonymous as a 100% evil entity.

I was mistaken.

Now, let's reiterate the rest of what I said, but shorter:

Anonymous has done good things in the past. And so far, the only evidence linking their amorphous, unorganized, anarchic group to the Sony attack is a clearly left behind calling card, which defeats the purpose of Anonymous and sets up a nice scape goat.

So, acting like they are bad is just a knee jerk reaction, and precisely what corporations, governments, and religious groups want you to think because of what Anon stands for. Which is generally anarchy, entertainment, and freedom.

 

[Nick_Snyder]

Don't feed the troll. Some people always seem to forget that.

I'll forgive some potential newbies here, but even you Shamus? I'm disappoint.

(...) and most people these days aren't racist.

God bless your innocence and may one day those words be nothing but truth.

When it was too late... I realised that. Crap... can't believe I fell for it.

 

[Therumancer]

[
That's just it. There are poeple in this thread going out of there was to insist that they are in fact a "free speech, hacktivist group" and saviors of internet freedom. When anyone with any brain knows they are not.

Well, to be entirely honest one of the reasons why I rant about it, other than being bored, is because Anonymous wasn't quite a household name before the whole "wikileaks" thing. Love it or hate it, that got them t a ton of exposure, and people who weren't paying attention think that this defines the movement. Prior to that their "greatest hits" consisted of things like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slDAPms8Tvs

Even the scientology raids, operation titstorm, etc... failed to get the attention that wikileaks did.

The very fact that you could shock people with their memes and virally spread videos like zippocat, tubgirl, funnelgirl, and others was a testement that not many people knew who they were so didn't see it coming. Likewise even people like Oprah who tend to be fairly well informed had no idea in reciting the Anonymous credo and making herself look like a complete moron to anyone who did know.

So I pretty much just take the time to explain things, and hope it sinks in. If people are looking to Anonymous to be some kind of heroes, they have the wrong group. Even their "heroic" defense of Wikileaks is a mixed bag, as only left wing extremists really think that was a good idea, and only because it made people they didn't like look bad at the moment. National security is one of those things that even sane proponents of free speech can get behind, and leaking classified diplomatic documents and such to the general public is not a good thing from anyone's perspective. Sure it made the US look stupid and hurt it's relations a bit, but at the same time just imagine, the US goes down and with it go all
those wonderful free speech rights supposedly being championed.

 

[jakefongloo]

Picketing, protesting, rallying

Hacking, shutting off severs, invading private areas

Both are effective
Both have proven to get the job done

One is illegal the other is not

This is all I'm concerned with

Smart people who thought of shit like this made these laws, where as smart people who continue to think about this shit evaluate them.

If Anonymous played by the rules like every other game changer out there then they wouldn't have to hide.

 

[Therumancer]

You know that Anonymous is not, and never was a group of white knights, right?

You know that "white knights" used to be a Klan rank or an epithet for their members?

Sorry, it's not that I don't disagree with you, it's just, in context, alternately either very clever or... something.

There was no paticular dual meaning intended. I meant white knight in the context of the stereotypical character that appears out of nowhere to rescue the damsel or save the day from great evil. The point was that Anonymous is not exactly a group of heroes that crusade for the common good, Anonymous is just as likely to say terrorize the damsel and ruin her life just for some good lines to virally spread through the internet as memes as they are to protect her in my experience.

Anonymous is just not consistant enough, by it's very nature to stand for anything. Even if you look at their persecution of those who hurt cats, which many people believe has been consistant, the observant can point to the whole "Zippocat" thing which was a set of step by step "instructional" pictures for lighting a cat on fire, complete with a charred corpse finish. A copypasta used to troll animal rights activists and such, that became associated with the group fairly early on.

 

[jakefongloo]

okay, since you fully went attack mode i'm not even going to bother hard with this post. But I will clear a few things up for you. I've never owned a console system since the snes. i've played a few sony games in passing, but if i'm going to be called a fanboy of anything it is the PC. Which i've been playing games on since the AppleII from yesteryear. Your weird illogical baseless arguments about being butthurt are completely unfounded and wrong.

Edit: sorry, I have a DS. Not sure if you count handhelds or not.

Come back with a better argument that isn't based on fallacies.

Nice job of dodging the point because of my opening. My assumption had been that only a fanboy of Sony could possibly be seeing Anonymous as a 100% evil entity.

I was mistaken.

Now, let's reiterate the rest of what I said, but shorter:

Anonymous has done good things in the past. And so far, the only evidence linking their amorphous, unorganized, anarchic group to the Sony attack is a clearly left behind calling card, which defeats the purpose of Anonymous and sets up a nice scape goat.

So, acting like they are bad is just a knee jerk reaction, and precisely what corporations, governments, and religious groups want you to think because of what Anon stands for. Which is generally anarchy, entertainment, and freedom.

I don't want to get involved in your fight mainly because well, fuck any fight over the internet is stupid. But opening your counter-argument with an assumption and an insult rolled into one has proven to be ineffectual. No one listens when a child is shouting they just want to shut it up. Just because you can't stop your emotions from reaching your fingers doesn't mean you get to insult everyone who has some self-control.

You owe this guy an apology not a veiled insult

 

[phelan511]

Fine. Fine, Fine, FINE! Have it your way. It just seems that ALMOST everyone agrees... Except you. Perhaps, if you didn't want the so called "hate speech" you might want to consider at least trying to consider OUR side of the story before blaitantly saying "THEY'RE !"

I admit here and now (as if i actually have to at this point) I hate anonymous. Completely and utterly. I think they are a collection of terrible poeple with insane every changing ideals, i think they are responsible for there splinter groups because they themselves created them. I have a absolute 10 mile high hate boner for anons. And i swing here in your faces.

They probably do more good that I've ever heard of but thats only because i can't hear it over all the bad they do as well. I'm sure the actual group only a tiny percentage actually engage in any of the criminal or hurtful acts. But i don't believe that just "voids" you from responsibility or acknowledgement.

Well.... that kinda does void the individuals that don't do anything bad. Anon is a pretty amorphous mass of people, its kinda like pointing at a group of people in an elevator when someone farts and saying "All of you farted". Its kinda pointless to point blame at Anon because well..... they're anon. Nothing you personally can do will bring them down, if anything you'll just invite trouble on yourself. I personally could give two shits towards anon. I agree with some things they stand for and sometimes I'm kinda like eh..... little too far fellas. Best thing you can do against anon if you don't like them is simply avoid them. Do your thing and let them do theirs. All is well.

 

[Sudenak]

I don't want to get involved in your fight mainly because well, fuck any fight over the internet is stupid. But opening your counter-argument with an assumption and an insult rolled into one has proven to be ineffectual. No one listens when a child is shouting they just want to shut it up. Just because you can't stop your emotions from reaching your fingers doesn't mean you get to insult everyone who has some self-control.

You owe this guy an apology not a veiled insult

Arguing that I'm being ineffectual by first claiming the entire thing to be stupid, and then comparing me to an angry child that can't control my emotions doesn't really bring your point home too well. You know. Since you kind of did the same thing.

The dude wasn't using polite words to convey his feelings, and I don't really see the point in having to apologize for my statement. Actually, I did apologize, but I'm guessing you inserted an emotion into my emotionless text. Either that or I literally need to say "I am sorry". Which is silly within itself.

The overarching point being that he used polarized wording of his description of Anon, I countered it, and his response was that I had made an assumption. Totally ignored the rest of what I said. I apologized and reiterated the rest of what I said in a more direct way, never got a reply.

EDIT: See the quoted text from the guy in the above post. He has an incredibly polarized, negative look on Anon. Don't see you going after him.

 

[Dogstile]

Experienced Points: On Anonymous

Shamus considers the Anonymous phenomenon.

Read Full Article

And again you sympathize with a group of bullies. What is it with the escapist and going head over heels to defend the name of anonymous? Are you part of the collective? Do they have you scared enough that you can tackle the real issues they impose?

Seriously, I'm tired of these lopsided arguments you people keep coming up with to shine them as "the good guys" its sickening. And guess what? if you even listen to the voice of your readers in the forums, you will see they aren't buying it any longer.

Clearly you don't realise that not every anon is a dick. That's the whole nature of anon. Some are good. Some are bad. United for a common cause for as long as they're needed and then they move on.

The one making lopsided arguments here is you. Scared? Part of the collective? What do you think the escapist is made up of exactly?