On Dongles

[Aardvaarkman]

...snip...

Wait a minute... matthew_lane... that rings a bell. Weren't you one of the people in the "fake geek girls" thread attacking such "fake geeks" and saying how geeks need to be tested on their credibility? Yet here you are, defending total fakery.

I'm sorry if I have the wrong person, but I don't think so, and this reeks of hypocrisy. Here we have companies dressing up models and proclaiming them as gamers, and having them dance for male arousal. How is that not exactly like those "fake geek girls" you despise?

 

[wulf3n]

demand it be changed for my benefit?

Who has demanded change? Source?

This year, Brenda Romero just resigned from her position at the IGDA, last year she went to the mentors, advisors, and investors of YetiZen to tell them to quit their support of YetiZen [admittedly worse however still not demanding change].

Because offensive is not a synonym for offended. People need to stop conflating the two.

Then what is offensive? [serious question]

By the logic you present nothing is offensive, implying both "offensive" and "offended" have no meaning.

and FYI Offensive is a synonym for offended.

Offensive being the act of causing displeasure or resentment, Offended being the result of receiving displeasure.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Because it's crass. If the people at a party want to dance, then they should dance. What's the purpose of hiring someone to dance as a spectacle in such a situation (regardless of gender)?

So musical theatre is now crass?

Try reading what I wrote. I said "in such a situation". This situation is not a performance of musical theatre - that's a completely different scenario.

Its not always women who are hired as either dancers or spokes models. Male spokes models are actually quite common place.

Sure, but not in this particular case, which is the point you are missing. We aren't talking about "jobs people have" in general, we are talking about these specific events.

it's pretty creepy that they are parading a bunch of women in front of the crowd for some reason that has nothing to do with the topics of the conference.

An again, i'll point out that the scenario you & other people are presenting did not happen. A group of spokes models were circulating at a party/rave at a night club & were asked if they wanted to dance on stage.

How is that not parading women in front of a crowd? Even if they didn't dance, they were still paid to perform for the crowd. I think just being paid to dance would be less creepy than them being paid to "circulate" or "socialise" - that's just damn weird. It assumes that the audience can't handle real interactions with people and need these hired escorts to boost their egos.

You didn't actually refute my argument here, you just confirmed it.

 

[Knight Templar]

snip

If nobody is offended, something cannot be offensive.
So are you rejecting the very concept of something being offensive here?

snip

Hang on, if you don't actually go to Qantm, how do you know what the men to women ratio is?

 

[Karadalis]

Where those women forced to dance? No

Where their rights violated because they belong to the female gender? No

Where they made fun of because of their gender or somehow not taken serious? No

There was no sexism involved in this. So people should stop using that word.

This was an after conference party that was off work hours so to speak.

Any other rave/night club party will have eyecandy depending on the demographic.

No one was surpressed, no one was excluded, there whas some hired eye candy as is normal for EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY, including the car industry, fashion industry, movie industry, spcial industry etc etc.

I do not hear the outcries about half naked guys/girls in the fasion industry for example.

Hell if you feel that offended by females on stage that wear sexy revealing clothing you should actually take a close look at the fashion industry because THAT industry is sexist as hell and sees especialy women as nothing more as something you put clothing on. The thinner the better because god knows the models themselves should not outshine the clothing they wear.

This here? This is some female "promotors" to get people in the mood to party. And no.. it absolutely does not matter that most of the attendees of the party are part of the same industry.

Theres nothing wrong with dancers/spokespersons/promotors on a rave.

There would have been a problem if it had been on the conference itselfe but it wasnt.

 

[wulf3n]

There would have been a problem if it had been on the conference itselfe but it wasnt.

Why?

What is the difference between the Conference organised by the IGDA and the After Party organised by YetiZen which required the approval of the IGDA to go ahead?

 

[Aardvaarkman]

There was no sexism involved in this. So people should stop using that word.

If there was no sexism, then why did they only hire females?

No one was surpressed, no one was excluded, there whas some hired eye candy as is normal for EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY, including the car industry, fashion industry, movie industry, spcial industry etc etc.

Even if it's "normal" in other industries, doesn't make it right.

I do not hear the outcries about half naked guys/girls in the fasion industry for example.

Then you haven't been looking very hard. There are plenty of people who protest the fashion industry.

Hell if you feel that offended by females on stage that wear sexy revealing clothing you should actually take a close look at the fashion industry because THAT industry is sexist as hell and sees especialy women as nothing more as something you put clothing on. The thinner the better because god knows the models themselves should not outshine the clothing they wear.

So, that's not something other industries should emulate, I suppose?

Theres nothing wrong with dancers/spokespersons/promotors on a rave.

Actually, I think there is. Commercialism has ruined raves. I grew up with raves where it was about community, equality, love and respect. Bringing promoters and hired models in to "party" at the rave just cheapens the whole thing. A rave should be something created by the participants, not a marketing vehicle.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Better question, how is it parading anyone.

Seriously? You admit - they paid women to go out into the crowd to please the attendees. How is that not a form of "parading"?

I don't see how, since its not any different the store attendents, floor staff or any other tertiary service industry. Seriously folks what world do you live in, that you are so sheltered from reality? Are you like 12 years old or have just never held down a job before?

I'm probably a lot older than you and have had plenty of jobs. If you don't see how it's different, then that's pretty sad. If what you say about these people being paid to "mingle" or whatever is true, that's very different to floor staff or salespeople. It's supposed to be a party. You don't want somebody selling you something at a party. People usually know their relationship to a salesperson. But it sounds like these are people paid to fake a relationship. Like those liquor sales-girls who pretend to be interested in guys so they buy more alcohol. A totally scummy business.

It assumes nothing of the sort... Thats like saying "oh why have a car sales person, these people will obviously sell themselves a car."

Oh, but it does. It assumes that the attendees aren't capable of partying on their own without these fake partiers to "get things started". What is the product they are demonstrating? It's the equivalent of hiring a scantily-clad woman to drape herself on the bonnet of a car, rather than explaining the features. That's the difference between the car salesperson and this situation.

If the attendees of the party are capable of normal interactions and enjoying the party unassisted, then what's the purpose of the hired females?

 

[wulf3n]

Actually, I think there is. Commercialism has ruined raves. I grew up with raves where it was about community, equality, love and respect.

Hahahahahahaha, no you didn't. You grew up in the same world the rest of us did, where raves where a placwe for terrible noise being passed off as music, so you go make up with random drunk chicks & pretend you were with it... Just like everyone else who ever went to a rave.

Seriously mate, grow up. All you're doing is spouting your opinion as fact and insulting anyone who disagrees with you.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Hahahahahahaha, no you didn't. You grew up in the same world the rest of us did, where raves where a placwe for terrible noise being passed off as music, so you go make up with random drunk chicks & pretend you were with it... Just like everyone else who ever went to a rave.

Well, you couldn't be more wrong. Before the raves got commercialised, they didn't even serve alcohol. Drunk people were usually not welcome at all. And it wasn't about "making out with chicks" - while that did happen, it was not how you describe it. At least, not until the marketing vultures swooped in. You're probably too young to have experienced any of those days. At its purest it was about dance. And women were far more empowered and equal in those raves than they were in typical pubs or nightclubs. It was a much safer, more inclusive space.

And if you think all electronic music is just "some terrible noise" then I don't know what to say - you clearly just have a narrow mind and have not experienced much outside of your little bubble.

 

[Karadalis]

There would have been a problem if it had been on the conference itselfe but it wasnt.

Why?

What is the difference between the Conference organised by the IGDA and the After Party organised by YetiZen which required the approval of the IGDA to go ahead?

Seriously? I cant believe you have to ask...


You can not understand the difference between a conference wich you where send from your company to attend to learn about the newest achievements in your field of work,and a private rave that is offered to you to unwind and relax after a long day of soaking up dry and perhaps boring information, that is also totaly optional and happens after work hours? You know.. in your private time?

Even people in the software industry might like to party now and then you know?

But how dare they! This party should have been a boring sausage fest.. because you know... people in "our" industry are forbidden to have some fun... for... reasons.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

... nor is is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's gender.

There is no sexism here...

So, if there was no sexism, why were no males hired?

Now you can personally dislike the practice of spokes models working at night clubs, thats okay, you can dislike them as much as you like... However its both legal & non discriminatory both as a business & as a practice.

But the argument is not about whether it is legal or not. The comic strip here is not making a legal argument, it's making social commentary.

For example: it's perfectly legal to be a "fake geek girl", yet that didn't stop you from voicing strong opinions on the topic. By your logic here, you shouldn't have commented, because it was perfectly legal. The thing is, this is a discussion board, and in the broader context, The Escapist discussed many things in its articles and videos. We're not talking about some kind of objective truth or legal argument here. We're discussing culture and stuff. So there's always plenty to be said.

It seems you always have something to say, but the moment something goes against your preconceived notions or ideology, you say there's nothing worth discussing. As if you are the final arbiter of truth, and your opinions are some kind of objective ideal.

 

[wulf3n]

Seriously? I cant believe you have to ask...

You can not understand the difference between a conference wich you where send from your company to attend to learn about the newest achievements in your field of work,and a private rave that is offered to you to unwind and relax after a long day of soaking up dry and perhaps boring information, that is also totaly optional and happens after work hours? You know.. in your private time?

Even people in the software industry might like to party now and then you know?

Both are professional events should they not hold themselves to professional standards?

But how dare they! This party should have been a boring sausage fest.. because you know... people in "our" industry are forbidden to have some fun... for... reasons.

Here I was thinking I was talking with a rational and mature individual. But please, wildly blow out an already fallacious interpretation of a simple question.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Even people in the software industry might like to party now and then you know?

But how dare they! This party should have been a boring sausage fest.. because you know... people in "our" industry are forbidden to have some fun... for... reasons.

It's not about preventing fun. And the fact that companies involved in the conference supported it makes it something less than a "private party". Nobody is denying that companies are allowed to sponsor such events. The issue is - how does that reflect on those companies? I think it reflects poorly. Sure, others may love that these companies hired women for their entertainment. But the point of this comic strip was questioning how we should regard companies that do such things.

And again: why do the attendees need hired women to have fun? For me, that would make the event less fun. It's rather insulting to the attendees.