On Endings
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Anyway, if we're listing games with good endings, I'd like to point out the No More Heroes games as a (rather polarizing) example. They are the pinnacle of "love it or hate it" endings, though, in that they are avant-garde to the point of embarrassment.
The "perfect" ending to Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (for which you have to beat all four bosses, save Cremia's ranch, and reunite Anju and Kafei, all in one three-day cycle) is one of the greatest moments in the history of the medium.
I also thought Super Mario Galaxy's ending was interesting.
And, of course, Final Fantasy VI, and SMRPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, and... in fact, Squeenix is pretty good at endings, overall (at least, from games where the REST of the game doesn't suck), as are the Mario RPGs.
The "perfect" ending to Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (for which you have to beat all four bosses, save Cremia's ranch, and reunite Anju and Kafei, all in one three-day cycle) is one of the greatest moments in the history of the medium.
I also thought Super Mario Galaxy's ending was interesting.
And, of course, Final Fantasy VI, and SMRPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, and... in fact, Squeenix is pretty good at endings, overall (at least, from games where the REST of the game doesn't suck), as are the Mario RPGs.
Games can do anything in the world. While they are a great forum for storytelling, they can also give you experiences that are not possible in other entertainment mediums. Obviously, a good story can make any game better and can sometimes be the driving force behind playing it, but what's much more important (to me, and to what I believe is the majority of gamers) is creative, challenging (skillfully and intellectually), and deep gameplay. And with fantastical and unique gameplay, it gets harder to maintain a good story. If I want a story, I can read a book or watch a movie, but to me, video games are fun because they give a sense of satisfaction, accomplishment, and self-discovery that experiencing a story doesn't give. My favorite games of all time (mostly Mario, Metroid, and Zelda series) all seem to have a "story" that miraculously involves travelling to the far reaches of the world and collecting items through feats of skill, puzzle solving, and combat. Stories are an added bonus, but to me, never the reason for buying a game.blakfayt said:
I only know details about how a bad ending came to be for one game. It's System Shock 2. The main game designer years later posted details about how that happened.
System Shock 2 is a game with rather good writing, and it is that game which managed to pull of that famous twist in midgame (a twist, which at that time the rest of the team were against. The designer pushed this idea through against the concerns of the rest of the team, which was afraid that cheating the player - not his character - would be too much of a dare).
The ending however seemed rather boring and uncreative - both in scripting and execution. It was just lame, and at the time, i was asking myself how one could mess up such a great buildup with such a crappy climax. Well, apparently, the designer DID write a good ending. However, it was almost at the end of the devcycle and they'd only have time left for one single attempt at rendering the cutscene. He'd write the script, send it to some other studio that would render the cutscene, and that would be the end-sequence. So he sent in the script - but for reasons which he does not explain, his script apparently was ignored - instead, something else was quickly made up by a non-writer, and the cutscene guys then rendered that. The designer was himself surprised when he saw the game ending the first time.
System Shock 2 is a game with rather good writing, and it is that game which managed to pull of that famous twist in midgame (a twist, which at that time the rest of the team were against. The designer pushed this idea through against the concerns of the rest of the team, which was afraid that cheating the player - not his character - would be too much of a dare).
The ending however seemed rather boring and uncreative - both in scripting and execution. It was just lame, and at the time, i was asking myself how one could mess up such a great buildup with such a crappy climax. Well, apparently, the designer DID write a good ending. However, it was almost at the end of the devcycle and they'd only have time left for one single attempt at rendering the cutscene. He'd write the script, send it to some other studio that would render the cutscene, and that would be the end-sequence. So he sent in the script - but for reasons which he does not explain, his script apparently was ignored - instead, something else was quickly made up by a non-writer, and the cutscene guys then rendered that. The designer was himself surprised when he saw the game ending the first time.
Movies are about sound and visuals. Movies are fun because they show stuff. Having good story in a movie is an added bonus, but never a reason for watching a movie.Electrogecko said:
If I want a story I read a book.
And screw, having sound isn't that important in movies. It's just and added bonus. Radio is the medium to go for if you want sound.
I mean honestly, what the hell is up with breaking down mediums to their sub-mediums and putting them in the order of importance? That's not how they work.
As long as games want to be a storytelling medium, this will be an issue. Fortunately, with more focus on Multiplayer, it may not be an issue long.
Thinking about it, though, the producers really don't need to care about satisfying us, which is annoying. Yahtzee's right, and I was totally going to argue that they need decent ending to help sell more titles, but the fact is, the intro is going to be the focus of their next game (whether it's a sequel or not), and the mediocre ending will be forgotten, ignored, or forgiven.
So we're really screwed.
Another part really resonated with me. I've been chopping down a novel to make it more publishable. I've been through this thing four times; first write, second write/first edit, second edit, third edit. Every time, I start off with some energy, then the middle sort of becomes a slog. Even in fiction, there are things you MUST do. Then I get towards the end, and I'm suddenly very, very motivated again. Energetic, excited, whatever.
Not to compare myself to game designers or established storytellers. I am neither. Still, I identify with that sentiment.
Thinking about it, though, the producers really don't need to care about satisfying us, which is annoying. Yahtzee's right, and I was totally going to argue that they need decent ending to help sell more titles, but the fact is, the intro is going to be the focus of their next game (whether it's a sequel or not), and the mediocre ending will be forgotten, ignored, or forgiven.
So we're really screwed.
Another part really resonated with me. I've been chopping down a novel to make it more publishable. I've been through this thing four times; first write, second write/first edit, second edit, third edit. Every time, I start off with some energy, then the middle sort of becomes a slog. Even in fiction, there are things you MUST do. Then I get towards the end, and I'm suddenly very, very motivated again. Energetic, excited, whatever.
Not to compare myself to game designers or established storytellers. I am neither. Still, I identify with that sentiment.
That's a load of crap. The difference is that it's impossible for some games to work a decent story into the framework. If you were going to "break down" movies into sub-mediums, (which I only did to games because they are the combination of every entertainment form ever created) the story would be the most important and good visuals and sound would be the "added bonus." Yes it is true that some stories are better suited for video games, some for movies, and some for novels- but a movie or novel without a story can't be redeemed, while video games without a story can still be life changing experiences. Are you saying that Picross for DS isn't worth playing because it doesn't have a story? What about Tetris? Limbo? Super Mario Bros.? Imagine trying to build a logical narrative around Super Mario Galaxy- one of the best games of this generation. What about Portal? If there were a movie that showed nothing more than the events of the game, it would be a physics lesson, the shortest story ever told, leave out a shitload of information on the setting, and would have little impact on it's audience. It would make them say "wow I wish I had a gun like that." Well you can't....UNLESS YOU PLAY THE GAME!!!!! I don't know how anyone can disagree with what I said in my previous post. Stories in games are great. You'd be a fool to deny it. But you'd also be a fool to say that all great games have stories. This is the nature of our medium- it's not all about literary value- get over it.Axeli said:
I absolutely love the ending of Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge. It's one of those 'love or hate' kind of situations.
Mass Effect 2 also had a great ending.
Mass Effect 2 also had a great ending.
The entire time you think Harbinger is the collector general and then you see a Reaper and hear the words RELEASING CONTROL! This plot twist wasn't completely unexpected but the way they presented it was really clever.
Thinking briefly of endings, one in particular comes to mind. For a series with relatively strong endings, I was considerably upset when the ending of Silent Hill 4 had a single in-game cutscene with text overlay. Especially for the game with the greatest concentration of escort time. I'm not exactly asking for a J-Bishoujo scenario, but I'd like a little gratitude.
Also, to add to Yahtzee's, venting of seemless infinte anger, of reality, on video game stories. Most stories are woven around the gameplay itself. As in, halfway through the making of the game, the creators seem to hire a B grade movie writer, that he/she never attempted to make a plot for a videogame! Metal gear Solid, however did the opposite. Minus the anti war bullshit and David Hayter's crokey voice acting, the story itself is... tolerable none the less, good for 'video game mediums'. Now 11 years later Hideo fucked that all up from, homosexual ninjas, to villians that have a arm attached to them because... Oh just wikipedia the fuck'n plot.
Serious Sam which belongs to a deceased genre of games, since Doom 3 turned all horror on my nostalgic ass. And Wolfenstein(2009) decided to remake itself because the original was too good. Serious Sam had no story, in the end he goes into the mothership, rings up the universes parking warden and orders pizza or something?
Serious Sam which belongs to a deceased genre of games, since Doom 3 turned all horror on my nostalgic ass. And Wolfenstein(2009) decided to remake itself because the original was too good. Serious Sam had no story, in the end he goes into the mothership, rings up the universes parking warden and orders pizza or something?
Yes, the games industry is thoroughly shitty, or maybe not. But hey, cheer up; nothing is perfect... or even good really. Our salvation is our refusal to see the imperfections in the system or maybe we like it like that. The point is, were the games industry better structured, you wouldn't be any more grateful for it. Think about it.Grand_Marquis said:
This was a really good article. As someone who has been a writer for six years i can see where Yahtzee is coming from and say that i agree with him entirely. The beginning of the story is, perhaps, the most fun for me because i like the feeling it gives me to realize i'm on the threshold of a new idea filled with unlimited potential. The middle of a story, however, is where the most content is being presented and, sadly, for the one creating the story finding the best way to present that content can take a tedious amount of time and patience that most people these days don't seem to have. The ending, by far, is the most important but often times hardest part for me for; despite how much work the writing process was and how many "writer's blocks" i had to smash down with a sledge or someone else's head; its always sad to see a good story come to an end.