One Last look at Mass Effect 3.
- Thread starter Machine Man 1992
- Start date
Recommended Videos
I don't even remember what I was feeling back then,probably trying my best to be apathetic about it and let the emotions get to me.Only in the moments after finishing it,I couldn't get it out of my head until the end of the day,and I couldn't stop ranting on mere notion of "Mass Effect 3 ending" until the end of the week.This forum was also involved in the calamity that was brought forth by angry fanboys.
I was also trying to stay publicly neutral on the topic,but I was in agreement with the fans,the ending was incomprehensible garbage.Then I watched MrBtongue and subscribed to him(seriously,his few videos are quite good),and then the smudboy's channel which dissect,analyze and point out the galring flaws of the Mass Effect plot and how ME3 was the culmination of it falling apart completely.
I never believed the indoctrination theory,it was a well put together conspiracy mystery put together by the fans,but I knew it was never intended by the developer,because if it was,they'd give actual hints about it in the actual game.Then comes Jim saying that the backlash is "good".which I agree to a certain point,and like you mentioned Bob,who never really researched the topic and never took our perspective as players.
It was quite interesting to witness this event,it didn't die down until the end March,when everyone moved on and never really looked back.I also played the two story DLCs,the were OK,maybe not the price they're asking for,but the stories told are "good",as in: it makes sense as long as you don't really think about it and don't ask questions about previously established lore,context and plot points that conflict with current events.Which is enough for most people.
TL;DR Tried my best not to care about it and stayed neutral on the subject.(I just wanted Tali)
I was also trying to stay publicly neutral on the topic,but I was in agreement with the fans,the ending was incomprehensible garbage.Then I watched MrBtongue and subscribed to him(seriously,his few videos are quite good),and then the smudboy's channel which dissect,analyze and point out the galring flaws of the Mass Effect plot and how ME3 was the culmination of it falling apart completely.
I never believed the indoctrination theory,it was a well put together conspiracy mystery put together by the fans,but I knew it was never intended by the developer,because if it was,they'd give actual hints about it in the actual game.Then comes Jim saying that the backlash is "good".which I agree to a certain point,and like you mentioned Bob,who never really researched the topic and never took our perspective as players.
It was quite interesting to witness this event,it didn't die down until the end March,when everyone moved on and never really looked back.I also played the two story DLCs,the were OK,maybe not the price they're asking for,but the stories told are "good",as in: it makes sense as long as you don't really think about it and don't ask questions about previously established lore,context and plot points that conflict with current events.Which is enough for most people.
TL;DR Tried my best not to care about it and stayed neutral on the subject.(I just wanted Tali)
Having finally played the game recently and got the original ending by accident (because of some sort of screwup with the Extended Cut), I can see exactly why people were so angry 9 months ago. To take something a player has potentially invested 100-odd hours in (if they took the same Shepard through all 3 games) and give them a lazy different-coloured-explosions conclusion that resolves nothing and doesn't even leave interesting unanswered questions is just...fail. (I'm pretty sure the developers were going for some sort of Evangelion/2001-esque "make you think" ending, but Mass Effect's story up to that point just didn't lend itself to that kind of ending.)
That said, I enjoyed a good deal of the rest of the third game. I agree that the overall plot (build the Plot Resolution Machine, fight Cerberus On Steroids and wallow in doom and gloom) was lacking, but I liked the two big pre-conclusion plot missions (the Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs) and most of the combat mechanics changes. I even had fun with the multiplayer. The big dip in quality definitely comes from about Priority:Thessia onwards, which leads me to think that deadline-rush issues were at least partly to blame.
One thing that puzzles me complaints-wise is people saying Liara was shilled/given too big a role/etc. What exactly do these complaints refer to? I didn't think she was pushed into too big a plot role or talked up too much; if anything I thought she needed more interaction dialogue. (Admittedly I actually like her as a character for the most part and the Shepard I used in my ME3 playthough was romancing her.)
That said, I enjoyed a good deal of the rest of the third game. I agree that the overall plot (build the Plot Resolution Machine, fight Cerberus On Steroids and wallow in doom and gloom) was lacking, but I liked the two big pre-conclusion plot missions (the Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs) and most of the combat mechanics changes. I even had fun with the multiplayer. The big dip in quality definitely comes from about Priority:Thessia onwards, which leads me to think that deadline-rush issues were at least partly to blame.
One thing that puzzles me complaints-wise is people saying Liara was shilled/given too big a role/etc. What exactly do these complaints refer to? I didn't think she was pushed into too big a plot role or talked up too much; if anything I thought she needed more interaction dialogue. (Admittedly I actually like her as a character for the most part and the Shepard I used in my ME3 playthough was romancing her.)
The responsibly for the ending lies with Casey Hudson and Mac Walters. They locked out all the other writers, and refused to subject the script for the ending to the same peer-preview process the rest of the script went through.FargoDog said:
For reference, Walters also wrote the opening, which is probably the second worst part of the plot.
To be fair, according to the Final Hours mini-documentary, Walters was actually in favor of making Casper the Genocidal Ghost less ambiguous, but Hudson said that the people "didn't need to know all the answers." Guess what one of the things added in the Extended Cut was...
The SpoilerWarningShow (who has Shamus Young from The Escapist) and Smudboy already broke the rest of the game to pieces. And even if those parts were ANY good, that still leaves the fact that the developers lied about your choices mattering at all and the 16 endings that would be different from one another as a result of those choices during ALL the series.A Smooth Criminal said:
I want to understand how this makes Mass Effect a work of art if, acording to some people, games cannot be art because they are made by a bunch of people rather than being directed by a single person with a vision (Like Hideo Kojima, Daniel Remar and Aleksey Abramenko)Blachman201 said:
How is the WHOLE game a work of art if ONLY the ending had 2 authors making an "artistic statement" out of the group and without editors? Is it even possible for a game/movie/whatver to be still considered art as a whole if a paste a "arty" endnig that has nothing to do with what was presented? If i make an anti-drug message at the end of my movie that has people using super cerum to win their problems, does that STILL make it art?
Don't forget that Bioware also claimed that at least one of the endings was one where the reapers won pre-release.DioWallachia said:
NO. NO. We were over this; we had moved past it. Don't you tear that wound open again - IT HAD ALMOST HEALED, GODS DAMN IT!
(That said, I agree with virtually everything in OP's post. A few disagreements, perhaps - the game itself wasn't abysmal, although the ending was - but generally; yes, Bioware screwed up big times).
(That said, I agree with virtually everything in OP's post. A few disagreements, perhaps - the game itself wasn't abysmal, although the ending was - but generally; yes, Bioware screwed up big times).
I think the moment my first doubts concering ME3 appeared was right after ME2 ended, where we see thousands of Reapers headed toward the galaxy, yet we'd found no way to stop them. As a matter of fact we'd hadn't discovered anything new about the Reapers at all, apart from the Collectors being enslaved Protheans. But since the Collectors are all dead by the end of the game all that knowledge is moot.FargoDog said:
ME2 was great in presenting you with fun colorful characters, but the whole 'What are/where are/how do we stop the Reapers' plotline got completely shafted.
Go clean your nose then! I really don't get people like you. For every person that didn't like(for whatever reason) ME3, there are about 10 who did. Poeple have the right to love or hate a product, but in this case BioWare screwed up by giving too much voice to it's fan base. As we all know, fans are the worst group of people one can turn to for opinion on a franchise and that is exactly what BioWare did. If they had gone the way of all other publishers and not ask everybody what they would like to see in the game, we wouldn't have so many people crying that they were "lied to" and misled by the endings and the plot. That's all there is to it. BioWare's downfall was them actually caring for the players.Lexodus said:
???????V1rax said:
Blue? Garrus weaars blue armor yes. but he is not blue. Your profile pic is Garrus and you call him blue? Please tell me you were talking about Liara.
I don't know what ending you guys are talking about. My ending was awesome. I am a little sad that Anderson died, but the crucible blew up the Reapers and Shepard went to a beach to make blue space babies with Liara and be drinking buddies with Garrus.[small]Yes I may be in denial[/small]
hahaha, good one, oh wait you are serious. I seriously have not met one person who played Mass Effect 3 and liked the ending. Other than some weirdos on this site.Kipiru said:
Urk...
When I got ME3 I literally played all weekend, finishing ~5AM Monday morning (on a school day). Regretted that the minute I finished the game. I had heard that the ending was bad, and had a very bad feeling the instant I heard about the Deus ex Machina crucible, but didn't expect it to be quite so awful. Gameplay wise it was OK, the only complaint I had was that there was a lack of variety in enemies. Story wise I was satisfied up to the very end. Rannoch and Tuchanka were some of my favorite moments ever in gaming. However, Cerberus' slide into twirly mustachio villains really annoyed me. Also, I despised that one reporter bimbo and Vega, or as I call them Mrs. and Mr. Fanservice. As for the endings, well everything's been said far better than I could. They would have been better off making the crucible either straight up work and kill all the reapers, kill everything, or fail miserably depending on your choices in all the games up to that point (i.e. if you made enough "wrong" decisions in the previous games you'd fail). Another theme that could have been explored better was trying to set up an enclave like the protheans did to prepare for the next cycle if you failed.
When I got ME3 I literally played all weekend, finishing ~5AM Monday morning (on a school day). Regretted that the minute I finished the game. I had heard that the ending was bad, and had a very bad feeling the instant I heard about the Deus ex Machina crucible, but didn't expect it to be quite so awful. Gameplay wise it was OK, the only complaint I had was that there was a lack of variety in enemies. Story wise I was satisfied up to the very end. Rannoch and Tuchanka were some of my favorite moments ever in gaming. However, Cerberus' slide into twirly mustachio villains really annoyed me. Also, I despised that one reporter bimbo and Vega, or as I call them Mrs. and Mr. Fanservice. As for the endings, well everything's been said far better than I could. They would have been better off making the crucible either straight up work and kill all the reapers, kill everything, or fail miserably depending on your choices in all the games up to that point (i.e. if you made enough "wrong" decisions in the previous games you'd fail). Another theme that could have been explored better was trying to set up an enclave like the protheans did to prepare for the next cycle if you failed.
Source?Kipiru said:
We do? Source?Kipiru said:
Evidence for this? Is this the first occasion in history when people were unhappy with a plot?Kipiru said:
Now, I won't say I hated Mass Effect 3. I didn't. While nowhere near perfect, for the most part, it was fun. I enjoyed myself.
Yes, I occasionally missed the Hammerhead pretty desperately.
Yes, I wish there were some different minigames spread out among the gameplay to add some variety.
Yes, I wish that Shepard was able to touch base a little more with former squadmates, even take them along temporarily for the missions you meet them in.
Yes, I also wish there was more variety in the new squadmates.
And finally, yes, I loathed the original endings with a passion. I had heard that they were bad while I was playing through it, but I thought, "Well, the end can't be that bad, can it? I mean, this is Bioware we're talking about, one of my favorite developers, right next to Bungie and Valve. They wouldn't shoot their baby in the foot right at the end, right?".
Then I got to the end and... Shit. I didn't really feel anything at first. Shepard lived because I played the mediocre but mildly fun multiplayer, my squad was stranded on some strange planet, and it looked like the galaxy was not only screwed, but I made it so one of my former squadmates essentially sacrificed himself in vain. As well as killing EDI.
First, I disliked it. Then I grew to hate it, but played through anyway because shit, I had a Femshep waiting for me to play as her, and I wanted to focus on the good Mass Effect 3 had to offer. But the fact that so many questions as to how the galaxy would end up after all of that were unanswered pissed me off the most. I was fighting for the galaxy, to save it and destroy the Reapers. So did my Shepard succeed or what? There was no closure. And that is what an ending is for.
Ultimately though, the worst part about the endings, in my case, was the fact that it was so out-of-nowhere, so starkly different and poorly written, that I could just ignore it. I was so indifferent and disgusted with it, that I ignored it with ease, and focused on the good, and really, that insulted me. Bioware at least had the talent, so I thought, to make an ending that would be hard to ignore, good or bad.
Now sure, I have other gripes. The multiplayer could have been better, they should've put more effort into the romance scenes for say, Garrus or Tali. Or even Tali's face.
As for the Extended Cut, it at least addressed some of my main issues. I know the galaxy isn't screwed now, my squad should make it back to civilization safe. The Reapers are well and truly dead. The endings still suck, but at least there's proper closure now.
Anyway, I'd still nominate Mass Effect 3 as Game of the Year, because it was one of the games that defined this year for me, in gaming terms at least. I wouldn't say its the best game this year. I won't say it's the worst either. It was above-average, all things considered.
Yes, I occasionally missed the Hammerhead pretty desperately.
Yes, I wish there were some different minigames spread out among the gameplay to add some variety.
Yes, I wish that Shepard was able to touch base a little more with former squadmates, even take them along temporarily for the missions you meet them in.
Yes, I also wish there was more variety in the new squadmates.
And finally, yes, I loathed the original endings with a passion. I had heard that they were bad while I was playing through it, but I thought, "Well, the end can't be that bad, can it? I mean, this is Bioware we're talking about, one of my favorite developers, right next to Bungie and Valve. They wouldn't shoot their baby in the foot right at the end, right?".
Then I got to the end and... Shit. I didn't really feel anything at first. Shepard lived because I played the mediocre but mildly fun multiplayer, my squad was stranded on some strange planet, and it looked like the galaxy was not only screwed, but I made it so one of my former squadmates essentially sacrificed himself in vain. As well as killing EDI.
First, I disliked it. Then I grew to hate it, but played through anyway because shit, I had a Femshep waiting for me to play as her, and I wanted to focus on the good Mass Effect 3 had to offer. But the fact that so many questions as to how the galaxy would end up after all of that were unanswered pissed me off the most. I was fighting for the galaxy, to save it and destroy the Reapers. So did my Shepard succeed or what? There was no closure. And that is what an ending is for.
Ultimately though, the worst part about the endings, in my case, was the fact that it was so out-of-nowhere, so starkly different and poorly written, that I could just ignore it. I was so indifferent and disgusted with it, that I ignored it with ease, and focused on the good, and really, that insulted me. Bioware at least had the talent, so I thought, to make an ending that would be hard to ignore, good or bad.
Now sure, I have other gripes. The multiplayer could have been better, they should've put more effort into the romance scenes for say, Garrus or Tali. Or even Tali's face.
As for the Extended Cut, it at least addressed some of my main issues. I know the galaxy isn't screwed now, my squad should make it back to civilization safe. The Reapers are well and truly dead. The endings still suck, but at least there's proper closure now.
Anyway, I'd still nominate Mass Effect 3 as Game of the Year, because it was one of the games that defined this year for me, in gaming terms at least. I wouldn't say its the best game this year. I won't say it's the worst either. It was above-average, all things considered.
So Dragon Age fans wanted Dragon Age to be more like Call of Duty right? I am willing to bet Bioware did what they did based on figures and statistics over what the fans wanted. Fans wanted to see Tali without her mask on (not all, but a large number) and they spent all of 5 mins in photoshop for that request. They couldn't even be bothered to make the hand match the anatomy of their model of Tali. They do love their fans after all. Which fans asked for their choices to not have anything to do with the ending? I seem to recall many fans asking if there was a lot of dicversity in the ending and Bioware saying "OMG Yes! I can't even count how many endings there are, maybe a bajillion... could only be a gazillion?"Kipiru said:
I think that people have been a tad unfair about Bioware and the endings.
They are terrible no doubt about that, and the Extended Cut upgrades the "terrible" to "eh. alright I guess." and for a franchise like Mass Effect is a real disservice. I agree with all of that.
But I do not think they were being stupid, or arrogant, or any of those things.
I think the problem was two-fold.
First that they did not submit the ending and this the main part of the "rewrite" to peer review. It really shows that they didn't do this and the game really suffers as a result.
And Second, I think they were going for an ending and storyline that was deep and philosophical. Ya know nature of the universe type stuff.
Unfortunately the writers (and especially its lead writer for ME) and devs simply do not have the chops required to even begin to tackle a plot line as deep and complex as nature of the universe stuff; don't get me wrong they have some of the best dialogue and character writers in the business but they don't tend to do well with storylines that fall outwith the traditional cliche bioware formula, as ME3 shows.
The only writer at BW who could have possibly made this kind of storyline not suck is David Gaider, and he has nothing to do with Mass Effect.
And when you take both problems together, we ended up with what we got. Nonsensical dreck. Sadly.
ME3 isn't a terrible game, by any stretch of the imagination. But neither is it perfect. With the EC it stands at a solid 7 out of 10, for me.
They are terrible no doubt about that, and the Extended Cut upgrades the "terrible" to "eh. alright I guess." and for a franchise like Mass Effect is a real disservice. I agree with all of that.
But I do not think they were being stupid, or arrogant, or any of those things.
I think the problem was two-fold.
First that they did not submit the ending and this the main part of the "rewrite" to peer review. It really shows that they didn't do this and the game really suffers as a result.
And Second, I think they were going for an ending and storyline that was deep and philosophical. Ya know nature of the universe type stuff.
Unfortunately the writers (and especially its lead writer for ME) and devs simply do not have the chops required to even begin to tackle a plot line as deep and complex as nature of the universe stuff; don't get me wrong they have some of the best dialogue and character writers in the business but they don't tend to do well with storylines that fall outwith the traditional cliche bioware formula, as ME3 shows.
The only writer at BW who could have possibly made this kind of storyline not suck is David Gaider, and he has nothing to do with Mass Effect.
And when you take both problems together, we ended up with what we got. Nonsensical dreck. Sadly.
ME3 isn't a terrible game, by any stretch of the imagination. But neither is it perfect. With the EC it stands at a solid 7 out of 10, for me.
Why one last look? It's not like ME3 is going anywhere, I assume we can continue to talk about it well into the future if we so choose.
But as for the whole "debacle". Ya the (original) ending sucked, but ME3 players really got too carried away with it. I'd say it was a failure for everyone involved and I'm glad the extended cut didn't go with the Indoctrination Theory.
But as for the whole "debacle". Ya the (original) ending sucked, but ME3 players really got too carried away with it. I'd say it was a failure for everyone involved and I'm glad the extended cut didn't go with the Indoctrination Theory.
This is what baffles me. Tuchanka and Rannoch were perfect. The way they wrapped up the biggest issues with other races was amazing. So how the fuck did they fuck up all that other stuff? It's obviously because they were rushed. I think they should have had at least another 6 months to work on ME3. Damn EA.Souplex said:
Oh, here we go again...
Before I throw in my completely worthless two cents, something I'd just like to address...
Anyway, how did I feel about Mass Effect 3? I loved it. The game has some of the best moments in the franchise in it, sequences involving Mordin, Tali, Legion, Shapard going one on one with a reaper, and that reaper/thresher maw throwdown were real highlights. I took a time out just prior to the point of no return to power through the multiplayer too, so by the time I got to the actual ending, the furore had already happened.
And I don't see what the BIG FUCKING DEAL IS.
Sure, it sucks that Shepard can't argue her point with the Starchild about its reasoning which is clearly based on flawed logic from many cycles ago, but I overlooked that the first time I played through it. Why? Bercause I had a choice to make. One I found incredibly difficult. Why? Because of the choices I'd made throughout the previous games.
Its called imagination people.
I've heard a lot of people say that nothing you do throughout the franchise matters in the end. None of the choices you make have any effect on the outcome. Well, I look at this in two ways. If you take the entire third game as the conclusion, then yes, your choices matter. The other? What, really, do you expect? How many choices, large and small, carry through from the first two games? Over a thousand? You really expect the ending to be in the least bit cohesive with that many variables in play?
God, I'm sounding really hostile, and I dont mean to, its just... ok, theres a difference between people not liking the ending, fair enough, and those people who are all 'the ME3 ending sucks, Bioware ruined my life forever!!!'
And unfortunately, the latter have been far, far too vocal during this... 'controversy'.
Before I throw in my completely worthless two cents, something I'd just like to address...
This is one of the endings. It happens ifSavagezion said:
you shoot the starchild in the face
Anyway, how did I feel about Mass Effect 3? I loved it. The game has some of the best moments in the franchise in it, sequences involving Mordin, Tali, Legion, Shapard going one on one with a reaper, and that reaper/thresher maw throwdown were real highlights. I took a time out just prior to the point of no return to power through the multiplayer too, so by the time I got to the actual ending, the furore had already happened.
And I don't see what the BIG FUCKING DEAL IS.
Sure, it sucks that Shepard can't argue her point with the Starchild about its reasoning which is clearly based on flawed logic from many cycles ago, but I overlooked that the first time I played through it. Why? Bercause I had a choice to make. One I found incredibly difficult. Why? Because of the choices I'd made throughout the previous games.
Its called imagination people.
I've heard a lot of people say that nothing you do throughout the franchise matters in the end. None of the choices you make have any effect on the outcome. Well, I look at this in two ways. If you take the entire third game as the conclusion, then yes, your choices matter. The other? What, really, do you expect? How many choices, large and small, carry through from the first two games? Over a thousand? You really expect the ending to be in the least bit cohesive with that many variables in play?
God, I'm sounding really hostile, and I dont mean to, its just... ok, theres a difference between people not liking the ending, fair enough, and those people who are all 'the ME3 ending sucks, Bioware ruined my life forever!!!'
And unfortunately, the latter have been far, far too vocal during this... 'controversy'.