So The Agreement is pretty cool, which I had to look it up, so let me link to some stuff regarding it:DioWallachia said:What are your thoughts on The Agreement by Armando Troisi?? how much is "the player story" and how much is also part of the artist?Uszi said:snip
It seems that up to ME2, the artist and the player had an agreement to cooperate but after ME3......yeah.
I had a link to the powerpoint, but not sure where it went
So, first of all, I think that the philosophy that Armando Troisi discusses would have been wonderful, but they totally ignored it in ME3. Troisi himelf didn't even work on ME3.
So many moments in ME3 are about the developers wanting to tell a specific story, and the player's potential range of choices becomes an impairment to the story they wanted to tell. The biggest problem isn't really whether it's the "player's story" or the "developer's story," but the moments where the player made contributions to that story and they were overridden, ignored, or retconned by the developer. Did you save the council or let them die? It didn't matter. Did you kill the Rachni Queen or let her go? It didn't matter. Did you try to talk the Quarians down and make peace between Tali and Legion? It didn't matter.
And then none of it mattered in a meaningful way for the end. Your choices had no bearing on what happens with the catalyst and the star child. And the small way in which your choices did indirectly influence the end is stupid. If you did stuff, then you got Effective Military Strength, which for some reason changed whether the catalyst fried Earth in the end, or if people cheered when the reapers flew away, or how many options you had. What? Why did bringing the Krogan vs Salarians or both effect whether or not the Star Child would let me walk on a platform to the "Control" electrodes, or jump into the magic "Synthesis" beam?
I don't think that the "artist" and the player had an agreement to cooperate. I think, however, the player base was sold a concept which was not implemented in the final product, i.e.: "Your choices matter." In fact, I don't think this, I know this for a fact:
From: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/
"Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome."
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/mass-effect-3-mac-walters/
"[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/05/qa-mass-effect-3s-mac-walters-on-how-the-game-tries-to-reach-all-audiences/
"I'm always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people"
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/334598/interviews/mass-effect-3-weve-brought-back-a-lot-of-what-was-missing-in-me2/
"And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway."
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/interview/mass-effect-3-has-many-different-endings/
"There are many different endings. We wouldn't do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can't say any more than that?"
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-02-bioware-mass-effect-3-ending-will-make-some-people-angry
"Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."
"You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people."
"Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make"
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/04/28/casey-hudson-interview-mass-effect-3.aspx
"For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations."
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/casey-hudson-bioware-co-created-mass-effect-3-with-the-sometimes-cranky-fans-interview/
"Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they're going to get that."
"Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end."
Interviewer: "So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?"
Hudson: "Um? You know, at this point, I think we're co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback."
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] "Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?"
Hudson: "Yeah, and I'd say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don't have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we?re taking into account so many decisions that you?ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them."
"We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is."
EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.
Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1027650/mass_effect_3_reapers_can_win_bioware.html
"Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble."
"In an inteview with NowGamer at Gamescom, we asked if BioWare was taking risks with Mass Effect 3 plot, including a negative ending in which the Reapers win. Gamble simply said, "Yes". We asked him again to confirm what he had just said and he said, "Yes"."
EDIT: thanks to Our_Last_Scene for pointing out that this quote was clarified on Mike Gamble's twitter feed (apparently the 'reapers win' scenario is simply the 'Critical Mission Failure' message the player receives if they dawdle too long at the crucible before making their choice, see this link for info - http://twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/status/106895746313363457)
Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1229983/mass_effect_3_developer_interview_shepard_coop_story_details.html
"Of course you don't have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you'll still get all the same endings and same information, it's just a totally different way of playing"
Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst.com/2012/03/casey-hudson-kinect-the-future-of-interactive-stories/
"The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3."
Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/336331/interviews/mass-effect-3-we-cant-go-on-holiday-our-dlc-is-really-good/?page=2
"There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it."
EDIT: Thanks to Skidrow-Garrett for pointing out another mystifying quote or two. It seems Bioware worked for years on the ending and are really pleased with it. I think it makes new DLC to address all the concerns less likely, unfortunately.
Ray Muzyka (Co-Founder of Bioware)
http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-doctors-from-bioware-discuss-the-old-republic-launch-ending-a-trilogy-a
"I just finished an end to end playthrough, for me the ending was the most satisfying of any game I've ever played?.the decisions you make in this game are epic,"
"The team has been planning for this for years, since the beginning of the Mass Effect franchise. Largely the same team, most of the same leads have worked on this for years and years. They?ve thought about [the ending] for years and years. It's not something they?ve had to solve in a week or a month even, but over the course of five or ten years."
So what I am reminded of is, like, the recall on Kia on Hyundai [http://www.examiner.com/node/54866696] cars where they overstated the MPG the cars were supposed to get.
Serious fans of the series, who were there from game one, were sold a false bill of goods. In fact, the amount of auto dialogue and lack of impact player agency had on the end of the game was a total smack on the face.