Open Letter to Parents of League of Legends' Players

[Mutant1988]

Because it's only ever someone else's fault when random shit happens that ruin the game for them, intentionally or not and them being unable to just deal with it or take measures to avoid it is a failure of you raising your children.

"Random shit" is one thing. "Angry parent spoils 9 strangers evenings" is not "random shit", and of course it's not the fault of the 9 strangers.

Telling the entire world that they all need to do their collective best to go out of their way to avoid contact with your child in case you decide to discipline them badly is *ludicrous*.

It's just... Inconceivable to imagine that it's such a recurring issue as to necessitate calling out parents for it. As if it's the only reason someone would leave or ruin your game.

Because more than one potential problem exists, no one should ever try to fix any problem ever, right?

I'd sooner fix your game than try to attempt to fix parenting. You know, the former being more pertinent to this particular situation.

What I'm berating you and the writer for is his apparent inability to deal with his game being cut short and that he feel compelled to instigate some sort of movement to correct an error that very likely isn't as wide spread as the letter would suggest. Doubtfully to any greater degree than intentional quitters.

So some kid had an inconsiderate parent. Deal with it. Try to petition for a game where you don't have to team up with them I say.

But no, sorry - It's obviously a call for the writer of that letter to tell others how to raise and discipline their kids.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

That's just like, your opinion man. One that any sane individual would be unlikely to just up and adopt given the total ignorance of this game that you have shown thus far.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a supposedly team based game not having or supporting team based play in any actual capacity is poorly designed and just asking for conflict.

Note where I used the terms "primary" and "ranked." There are other options, they just either have prohibitively long quene times (because nobody plays them) or are not as competitive. If these guys are complaining about ranked solo quene, then I'd argue their issues have a certain degree of legitimacy.

 

[DoPo]

The unscheduled probably goes without much discussion, although I'm little worried that there's at least a few people here that would be like, "Yeah, someone just broke my window, but I gotta finish this match or I'll get banned."

How often does that honestly happen, though? I don't mean breaking the window[footnote]even then, if that's a common enough interruption, I think you probably have something better to do than playing online games[/footnote] but unscheduled interruptions that mean you have to leave the game. There have been plenty of times I've had to ask for a pause in DotA in order to go see who's knocking on the door, or to answer a phone call, or to even power cycle the router or whatever. Usually, yes, it does interrupt the game but most people are understanding and can wait for a couple of minutes. I've granted others the same courtesy plenty of times, as well. Every time they've asked, in fact. But these interruptions last for usually about 5 minutes and it's a common understanding that if they last more, we can unpause the game. Even if you're taken out of the game for 10 minutes, you still only lose up to five which has very little impact on the game.

These short interruptions have been the majority of the unscheduled ones. Sure there have been a few times something big was going on and people needed to leave. I've had to leave for unrelated reasons as well. It sucks, it happens but the actual seen I've seen it happen and I've had it happen were so low, I don't think are significant enough to discuss, really. And that's counting all "unscheduled" leaves even if the person was just lying in order to not get a report/ban. Few of these are and have been somewhat easy to spot (team loses, one guy goes "oh, uh, something came up, have to go, soz. Don't ban me" is usually not an "unscheduled interruption") this happens really rarely, so even if we add these to the genuine unscheduled interruptions, the numbers are too low.

I dunno, though, my experience comes from DotA but I don't really think it's that much different across the board. Or are these unscheduled interruptions really that many and I've somehow managed to avoid them?

I also don't know about the issues with kids quitting online matches. I haven't really encountered them, not that much anyway. Probably a couple or so times in total. Is it that bad, seriously? I mean it's one thing for something unscheduled to come up and you to have to deal with it but another for a parent to march in and randomly go "Johnny, go do this random thing right now, no exceptions, or you're grounded" (or something that would have the same effect of booting a player out of the game). If it really happens that often, I'd be really curious what the heck is going on with little Johnny (all the little Johnnies), and does he need social services being called on his behalf.

So far the above situation has been spoken of as if it's common enough to even be spoken of. I didn't realise, and I haven't suspected, it is. If I had to guess, I would go for "it happens, but too rare to really say anything more than that".

 

[mike1921]

Because it's only ever someone else's fault when random shit happens that ruin the game for them, intentionally or not and them being unable to just deal with it or take measures to avoid it is a failure of you raising your children.

"Random shit" is one thing. "Angry parent spoils 9 strangers evenings" is not "random shit", and of course it's not the fault of the 9 strangers.

Telling the entire world that they all need to do their collective best to go out of their way to avoid contact with your child in case you decide to discipline them badly is *ludicrous*.

It's just... Inconceivable to imagine that it's such a recurring issue as to necessitate calling out parents for it. As if it's the only reason someone would leave or ruin your game.

Because more than one potential problem exists, no one should ever try to fix any problem ever, right?

I'd sooner fix your game than try to attempt to fix parenting. You know, the former being more pertinent to this particular situation.

What I'm berating you and the writer for is your inability to deal with your game being cut short and that you feel compelled to instigate some sort of movement to correct an error that very likely isn't as wide spread as the letter would suggest. Doubtfully to any greater degree than intentional quitters.

So some kid had an inconsiderate parent. Deal with it. Try to petition for a game where you don't have to team up with them I say.

But no, sorry - It's obviously a call for the writer of that letter to tell others how to raise and discipline their kids.

What's with you and your flat out OBSESSION with turning this into people playing 5's all the time. Everyone is ignoring everything you say on the matter cause it's IRRELEVANT.

The thing is a lot of parents don't know they're being inconsiderate, parents telling kids to "pause it" when it's multiplayer isn't some non-existent thing.

What's with all this putting parents on a pedestal? Sorry, a lot of parents do shitty things because people in general do shitty things. If the way parents raise their kids was so perfect everyone would raise their kids the exact same way.

 

[Mutant1988]

That's just like, your opinion man. One that any sane individual would be unlikely to just up and adopt given the total ignorance of this game that you have shown thus far.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a supposedly team based game not having or supporting team based play in any actual capacity is poorly designed and just asking for conflict.

Note where I used the terms "primary" and "ranked." There are other options, they just either have prohibitively long quene times (because nobody plays them) or are not as competitive. If these guys are complaining about ranked solo quene, then I'd argue their issues have a certain degree of legitimacy.

I got to ask, if people are that good as to lose a significant rank, then why then do you keep being matched with perpetual quitters?

Isn't that the whole point of the ranking system, to match good players with good players and bad players with equally bad players? If losers are penalized worse than quitters then the game has bigger issues (Specific to it).

What's with you and your flat out OBSESSION with turning this into people playing 5's all the time. Everyone is ignoring everything you say on the matter cause it's IRRELEVANT.

The thing is a lot of parents don't know they're being inconsiderate, parents telling kids to "pause it" when it's multiplayer isn't some non-existent thing.

What's with all this putting parents on a pedestal? Sorry, a lot of parents do shitty things because people in general do shitty things. If the way parents raise their kids was so perfect everyone would raise their kids the exact same way.

Because if the issue is that you are matched with poor players then the obvious solution is to fill that slot with someone reliable. It doesn't have to be 5. Unless that's the only thing the game allows? I don't know. I just think it's crazy to specifically call out parents as an issue relating to quitters.

I do not play Mobas because high speed micro-management is a chore to me. But from what I hear and read those that play it seem obsessed with rank and competition, yet they either take no measures or are not ABLE to take any measures to ensure a good team.

That sounds like a bigger issue with the game to me.

 

[RandV80]

You know if it's the rankings that are so important then statistically you're just as likely to win a game because a person on the other side quit as you are to lose because a kid on your team quit. You can make a point about politeness, but for the rankings/ratings these should balance themselves out.

 

[Rednog]

The responses in this thread honestly just makes me hold my head in my hands.
I honestly can see some people in this threads being the kind of parents who let their kids shit on other people and then start screaming in others people faces when they get confronted about not disciplining their kid. Your kids are the ones who are going to grow up and be scumbags to other people while they're infallible little angels in your eyes. Your parenting sucks.

It's sad to say that I'm not surprised with Tycho's reaction, seriously a rage comic because "don't tell me how to raise my kid". Someone calls for decency and actually gives reasonable suggestions on how to alleviate a problem...FUCK YOU, YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT, THIS IS MY FAMILY FUCK OFF!!
But then again PA is run by two idiots who still don't get why people were offended by a rape joke.

 

[Mutant1988]

You know if it's the rankings that are so important then statistically you're just as likely to win a game because a person on the other side quit as you are to lose because a kid on your team quit. You can make a point about politeness, but for the rankings/ratings these should balance themselves out.

Good point.

Again, the issue seems to stem from a team based game not really supporting any teams.

As if issues with random players are specific to kids.

 

[mike1921]

That's just like, your opinion man. One that any sane individual would be unlikely to just up and adopt given the total ignorance of this game that you have shown thus far.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a supposedly team based game not having or supporting team based play in any actual capacity is poorly designed and just asking for conflict.

Note where I used the terms "primary" and "ranked." There are other options, they just either have prohibitively long quene times (because nobody plays them) or are not as competitive. If these guys are complaining about ranked solo quene, then I'd argue their issues have a certain degree of legitimacy.

I got to ask, if people are that good as to lose a significant rank, then why then do you keep being matched with perpetual quitters?

Isn't that the whole point of the ranking system, to match good players with good players and bad players with equally bad players? If losers are penalized worse than quitters then the game has bigger issues (Specific to it).

What's with you and your flat out OBSESSION with turning this into people playing 5's all the time. Everyone is ignoring everything you say on the matter cause it's IRRELEVANT.

The thing is a lot of parents don't know they're being inconsiderate, parents telling kids to "pause it" when it's multiplayer isn't some non-existent thing.

What's with all this putting parents on a pedestal? Sorry, a lot of parents do shitty things because people in general do shitty things. If the way parents raise their kids was so perfect everyone would raise their kids the exact same way.

Because if the issue is that you are matched with poor players then the obvious solution is to fill that slot with someone reliable. It doesn't have to be 5. Unless that's the only thing the game allows? I don't know. I just think it's crazy to specifically call out parents as an issue relating to quitters.

You don't always have 5 people on in your social group at once. 5v5 is the only legit game mode (3v3 exists but is unbalanced and generally awful). Also, solo queue is about your skill by yourself and a full team is about....teamwork more, there's plenty of differences in how you wanna play solo to the point that a lot of people prefer it that way.

But parents being unaware and inconsiderate is a factor, and one that can be attributed to ignorance (generally). You don't need to solve a problem, if you reduce it you've done enough. If you never specifically call out one factor you never solve a problem.

 

[Mutant1988]

You don't always have 5 people on in your social group at once. 5v5 is the only legit game mode (3v3 exists but is unbalanced and generally awful). Also, solo queue is about your skill by yourself and a full team is about....teamwork more, there's plenty of differences in how you wanna play solo to the point that a lot of people prefer it that way.

But parents being unaware and inconsiderate is a factor, and one that can be attributed to ignorance (generally). You don't need to solve a problem, if you reduce it you've done enough. If you never specifically call out one factor you never solve a problem.

Fair enough. Still feels like a system overhaul would make the game better. A team game with lacking abilities to form a good team is not well designed.

Again, I think that forming a team is the first and only resort to ensure that you can rely on those you play with (If not those you go up against). But if the game simply doesn't allow for it then, yeah sorry, I didn't know that.

But I'd say that the ranking system could use an overhaul, if it's that common for people to be matched with quitters.

The letter just comes across as reactionary and weirdly specific, which is probably what irks a lot of people. I don't know if it's necessary to specifically say it's bad parenting that is the cause of kids leaving (Is it even, or is it just the writer being angry that kids play and possibly quit at all?).

Now, if he wants to explain the merits of the game itself, that part should not be necessary. Showing respect is important, sure, but that is a matter between the parent and child. If the child does not respect the parent, then the parent is very unlikely to consider your loss when they remove the child from the game. It's a bum deal, but you just have to deal with it, just the same as you have to deal with any other situation where someone quits.

They won't put their family business on hold for you. The kid was dumb to start that game for sure, but that's kids for you.

 

[nuclearday]

But parents being unaware and inconsiderate is a factor, and one that can be attributed to ignorance (generally). You don't need to solve a problem, if you reduce it you've done enough. If you never specifically call out one factor you never solve a problem.

That's kind of my thinking - this is an internet conversation so of course there's a degree of hyperbolically extreme positions and all-or-nothing attitudes, but overall I'd say that if I'm pulling my kid out of a game it's better that I know what I'm doing than acting from a position of ignorance. Regardless of the decision, I'm generally more in favor of people at least making informed ones.

To me as a parent, I think instilling the proper attitudes and modeling correct behavior is more important than what I'm doing to his potential online team-mates. In this hypothetical, what affect I have on these other people wouldn't be as important as what those choices would teach my son about respect for other people and their time. (ie, if I feel that we should treat each other with respect even when interacting online - as I do - then I sort of have to make decisions that tend to support modeling that sort of behavior in a positive manner.)

If I show no concern for other people online, then neither will he - which only fosters the trend towards hostility and lack of respect online - and since going forward we're only likely to be more tied to the internet than less, I think teaching my son about mutual respect would be kind of important.

So of course a lot of this is age-dependent. My own son is 3 - he barely grasps the concept that time passes to begin with and he's too young to be doing anything online anyway. When he gets older I'm probably going to have to structure blocks of time for various activities, and when he gets even older it's probably safe to assume he'll be doing all kinds of things I have no idea of.

My reaction to "oh, it's dinner time now but he's just started an online match" therefore can't ever be rolled into a concise and pat answer. It would depend on my own mood, his age, what's going on that day, how much he'd already been playing that day, and on and on.

I could say, in general, that I'd try to encourage properly scheduling those sort of activities so there's no conflict, but of course that's not always so easy. In an ideal world I'd continue to plan his activities out so there's never any conflict (which I can barely manage even at this stage in his development,) and how I would handle any conflict would have so many variables as to make any real answer impossible.

Generally, I'd try to make a decision that respected other people and taught my son the same, but of course that would depend and I can be fairly certain I won't always be able to be a perfect parent (I'm only 3 years in and most days if I can just keep him out of the ER I consider it a "win...")

 

[Savagezion]

Haha, wow, this thread is exactly why I still have zero interest in MOBAs. Gaming > Real Life. All I see is one kid has to go eat dinner and another one can still play and the second kid is complaining to the parents that they are ruining his fun by parenting.

It isn't so easy to be actively interested in your kids recreational hobbies to the extent of "knowing and understanding the community around everything your kid touches". Knowing content, yeah that's easy. However, I am not going to go read every pokemon forum, every minecraft forum, and every free to play play game forum my kid decides to play. FOr one, kids are fickle little creatures trying to explore everything at once and only half assing it at that. Then some stranger on the internet expects me to go research community etiquette for everything they touch. That's unrealistic. FIrst, kids will run you ragged even while they are playing these games. While Tommy is in his room playing LoL with you while I make supper, I am thinking about upcoming bills, the fact that Tommy needs 30 bucks for school on monday and that I still need to go pick up the actual cash for that, his sister is being a pain in my ass about Tommy "ALWAYS" gets to play on the computer and she "NEVER" does, the youngest is trying to show me what is suppose to be a house on Minecraft and complaining that she needs my help to build something, I would like to watch a movie later but I don't know if I will be able to watch it because I have to make sure I get them in bed first and I have to be up at 7am.

But NO! Let me go read LoL community forums so that my kid is showing proper etiquette in a MOBA (the type of game with a reputation for being overbearing) and tell me how you expect a 10 year old to commit to something because apparently 10 year olds do that ALL THE TIME and my kid is abnormal says the guy with no kids. Is there anything else I can do for you before I try to have a life myself? Is there anyone else who could use a servant, AKA parent?

 

[nuclearday]

...

There is, of course, no denying the irony that the people that letter is trying to reach out to are specifically the ones who are least likely to read it.

Still, though - not everything written as "hey, here's a problem I've come across and I've at least made an initial attempt to offer up a solution rather than just whine about it" needs to be taken as "now do all of this perfectly every time to my standards so that I'm never inconvenienced again."

 

[cleric of the order]

Secondly, while it espouses the noble goal of teaching children about responsibility to other people, it seems like the author is just using that as a shield to achieve their own wants because they lack perspective. AKA "I'm sick of children playing a game getting in the way of my imaginary score."

dude, I have played games where a person having to leave or worse dcing has cost us the game.
Which has cost me Ip
Or for others set them back on promos.
Seriously there are some real world ramifications to this.
I doubt people dread something more then being in promos and having someone leave.
And that defeat will carry on to their next game, and then their next and their next, dragging them down in ELO unless they can break free.
It's bad personage to be so careless that to allow you actions to affect people in such a way and more importantly i really do think kids need to understand how their actions affect others.
While motivated by self interest, I find it hard to argue that any apply for social understanding is not somehow motivated by self interest.

 

[Mutant1988]

It still seems crazy for a game that's team based to have so much trouble with actually supporting teams playing in modes where it matters.

And that disconnects seemingly punish those that stay and lose more severely than those that are inconsiderate and quit (Which seriously, is more than just kids because of parents - I find that whole premise ridiculous). One would think that the fact that the player is now alone would factor into whatever ranking difference is applied.

But this is from someone that fails to see the point of any kind of competition outside of pre-arranged competitive matches. Chalk that up to me only really having played games with inconsequential or irreparably hacked leaderboards.

 

[mike1921]

You don't always have 5 people on in your social group at once. 5v5 is the only legit game mode (3v3 exists but is unbalanced and generally awful). Also, solo queue is about your skill by yourself and a full team is about....teamwork more, there's plenty of differences in how you wanna play solo to the point that a lot of people prefer it that way.

But parents being unaware and inconsiderate is a factor, and one that can be attributed to ignorance (generally). You don't need to solve a problem, if you reduce it you've done enough. If you never specifically call out one factor you never solve a problem.

Fair enough. Still feels like a system overhaul would make the game better. A team game with lacking abilities to form a good team is not well designed.

Again, I think that forming a team is the first and only resort to ensure that you can rely on those you play with (If not those you go up against). But if the game simply doesn't allow for it then, yeah sorry, I didn't know that.

But I'd say that the ranking system could use an overhaul, if it's that common for people to be matched with quitters.

The letter just comes across as reactionary and weirdly specific, which is probably what irks a lot of people. I don't know if it's necessary to specifically say it's bad parenting that is the cause of kids leaving (Is it even, or is it just the writer being angry that kids play and possibly quit at all?).

Now, if he wants to explain the merits of the game itself, that part should not be necessary. Showing respect is important, sure, but that is a matter between the parent and child. If the child does not respect the parent, then the parent is very unlikely to consider your loss when they remove the child from the game. It's a bum deal, but you just have to deal with it, just the same as you have to deal with any other situation where someone quits.

They won't put their family business on hold for you. The kid was dumb to start that game for sure, but that's kids for you.

The reason this letter is oddly specific is because this is a unique factor, it's people who generally don't understand games making them worse. Other AFKs are normally trolls (who are amoral sociopaths), internet problems(can't change), and ragers(who we all acknowledge as bad and are part of the community anyway). I guess there's a problem with peoples' significant others but generally they're at an equal playing field so it's still different.

Showing respect is not a matter between a parent and child, it's a matter between person and person. Also I find that generally when a kid leaves a game it's because of something unexpected like a chore. Not even disrespect against the parent, just general annoying "I want the trash out so it must be done now"

 

[Savagezion]

...

There is, of course, no denying the irony that the people that letter is trying to reach out to are specifically the ones who are least likely to read it.

Still, though - not everything written as "hey, here's a problem I've come across and I've at least made an initial attempt to offer up a solution rather than just whine about it" needs to be taken as "now do all of this perfectly every time to my standards so that I'm never inconvenienced again."

I can agree the tone is well placed. However, the real solution rests in the community itself, not in pointing a finger at parents. This is an unrealistic solution thus the jokes. It is also a very ignorant suggestion. The suggestion pisses off parents just as much as the kid leaving the game pisses off LoL players. The suggestion has no idea the magnitude of what it is truly asking for. Even reading the letter, or even stumbling on the letter is more than what is on most parents plates. A better solution would be to try to figure out a way to clean up the community and make the word "respect" that the letter loves so much something in abundance within the community and then the community could actually help me teach my kid about respect. However, that would ironically require "commitment" to such a cause. The letter is all about shirking off commitment and respect and laying the blame at someone else's feet. Though really, this is just a result of the vile nature surrounding the community. Games are dropped because why should my kid care about some ass out there who 3 minutes ago was bitching that his class is weak and he doesn't understand team building or whatever it is they argue about. Now surprise surprise, that guy found something new to complain about. I assure you this isn't a result of bad parenting, it is a result of a community who treats people as disposable and then when someone treats the game as disposable, we get this letter to parents.

In short, this isn't the solution they're looking for.

EDIT: As for the kid leaving to do a chore, that is respect. The kid respects the computer I provided, the internet, the food, the shelter, etc. The kid's priorities are indeed correct. Wouldn't it be nice if the community would show respect and just accept that he has to go eat dinner? Imaginary scores and records are less important than this kid whom you respect eating dinner with their family and you respect that. There will always be more games to play and your LoL record in no way impacts your real life.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Yeah no, they (the person who typed/ write the open letter) has no right to tell their parent on raising their kids.

Also some stuff to consider-

1. It seen LoL is rated teen and another link say the game is not for under 14. Ok technically that's more on the parent fault for letting them played LoL.

2. It's only a game. It is not the end of the world when you lose a match cos a kid was afk and it's not like they were playing in a official tournament.

3. Shouldn't kids learn to just "deal with it" or that the world does not revolve around him/ her even when the players dependant on him/ her? Yes I know it's a pain in the ass when I had to leave a fight when lunch or dinner is ready but I just accept it than to argue with my parent to give me more minutes.

Ok 2 that can be somewhat hypocrite of me but I had only done that ONCE (in the past I got really annoyed with this other player when real life situation needed him to be afk).

 

[Vigormortis]

It's shit like this makes me almost want to leave games early, just to make a point about how unimportant and inconsequential ones standing in a damn online game is to other aspects of real life.

Really, that these people are so moronic, and that they lack any meaningful sense of self-awareness or empathy[footnote]The irony of this is palpable.[/footnote], is as infuriating as watching brain-dead 'pundits' on the news propagandizing their skewed world views. They're on the same level of dumb.

If these players have such a problem with people leaving mid-match, and thus adversely affecting their ranking, then they have two options for recourse:

Grow up and deal with it.
- or -
Play something else.

Hell, they can even go play something like Dota 2. There, if a team mate leaves early, they can just wait a few minutes and 'safely' leave the game with no negative impact on their ranking.

Honestly, that letter read like a long-winded tantrum. Whoever the author or authors are, he, she, or they need to grow some fucking perspective.

But this is from someone that fails to see the point of any kind of competition outside of pre-arranged competitive matches. Chalk that up to me only really having played games with inconsequential or irreparably hacked leaderboards.

I'm of a vaguely similar mind, in that I don't necessarily participate in competitive-based pub matches (though, there are a few exceptions) and generally see no point in, or my even have a revulsion to, online leaderboards.

The only method with which I participate in competitive matches nowadays is either scrims, tourneys, or PUG matches.

So, yes. I agree. I too see no meaningful point to pub-based competitive match-making.

 

[Mutant1988]

I still say that is more of a product of users inability to team up.

And really, this felt less like he was preaching the merits of the game and more as him instructing how parents should discipline their children in regards to games.

It comes across as volatile mix of obvious self interest and presumption on behalf of the writer. That he somehow have the inside scoop on how horrible parents are to their kids playing the game and need to be taught how to do it right.

I can understand why people object. I don't think kids need to be taught respect because of other players in a game. No, they need to be taught respect because of other people period.

But respecting their parents is a good start. And if they don't do that and it requires the parent to take their toy away (Because it is a toy, at least to a kid), they will do so. They cannot be expected to put their parenting and their domestic situation on hold for people they have never met.

I'm sorry, shit happens, sometimes parents need to turn the computer off - NOW.

Hell, if you want parents to support you then don't talk down to them. Explain how the game is more than a toy. If you can't do that then I'm sorry, it's going to turned off because it's dinner now.

If you want to keep the competitive element of the game, you need to team up with people as dedicated as you and if you can't, then the game is lacking.