Open Letter to Parents of League of Legends' Players

[Elijin]

I'm a reasonably hardcore gamer, for a given value of hardcore. I'm also a DOTA2 player, for a given value of player.

I like the letter, and Penny Arcade are a force people listen to. But the letter is at the very least polite, whilst Penny Arcade is just, well, tiring. I don't know if Penny Arcade are disagreeing with the letter or satirizing a parent's response and frankly it doesn't matter.

It's a matter of mismatched cultural priorities spanning the analogue and digital generations. You could say that video games are indeed ruining traditional family events such as mealtime and in doing so disrupts a routine the child needs and you would be right.

But I think we're on the edge of this cliff looking into the valley of the next generation's list of cultural priorities, and some things will change in value. Video Games are growing upwards and outwards, and Mobas are at the leading edge of the eSports blade. As an example: the US DOTA 2 team just won the DAC League, winning $1.3million. Their Mid player is 15. Fifteen.

Look at it through any colour glass you want, that kid has a talent. It's just a case of convincing an entire child-producing generation that it is a talent.

If you read the news article which is paired with the comic that day, you'll find its a middle ground. PA says things like how the game work, and match times are useful information to be explained to parents, but at the end of the day, parenting input from strangers because their videogame was ruined is both unwanted and unacceptable.

 

[Olrod]

I think it's really sad that someone takes a game this seriously that they feel they need to write to parents because of how petty and entitled they are. Players like that are just one of the many reasons why I don't play MP anymore besides MMOs.

So how would you feel if your healer left halfway through a raid? Or, if you don't care, how do you think everyone else would feel if their healer left halfway through a raid? Or the tank? Or the DPSer?

 

[Bat Vader]

I think it's really sad that someone takes a game this seriously that they feel they need to write to parents because of how petty and entitled they are. Players like that are just one of the many reasons why I don't play MP anymore besides MMOs.

So how would you feel if your healer left halfway through a raid? Or, if you don't care, how do you think everyone else would feel if their healer left halfway through a raid? Or the tank? Or the DPSer?

It has happened to about a dozen times across different MMOs and it honestly doesn't bother me. Sometimes life gets in the way and getting angry about it solves nothing. It sucks for the other players but honestly if someone is going to get angry over a game I don't want to associate myself with a person like that. The biggest problem I have with the letter is that it assumes that it is the parents fault for this. It doesn't think about that perhaps the kid has to be somewhere or has a specific bedtime.

 

[mike1921]

It doesn't matter if it's a game, if you wasted my time you wasted my time. If you wanna learn how to respect people you can't be caught up on degree like that.

If you're playing serious games with children (which in itself weird) then you're gambling on them not having a schedule to stick to. If someone plays a game and ignores an appointment that's their fault, not the person with whom they have an appointment. Telling people to let their kids play with you rather than eat dinner because this computer game is super important is fucking weak.

The parents also didn't waste your time, the kid did.

There's also an argument that if you take time to write an "open letter" (the most pussy-assed passive aggressive form of communication imaginable) to the parents of children that run home for dinner telling them that it's more important that their kids play games with you online then your time is almost by definition unwasteable.

It is the age of the internet, where everyone is anonymous except for what they decide to disclose, them being children is irrelevant to the vast majority of gaming interactions.Some things are flexible, some things are inflexible. Your dinner time is flexible, just microwave it for fucks sake.

This computer game is 5v5, 30 minutes long, so 4.5 hours of time not on your kid. I don't give a flying fuck how important you perceive the game to be, the fact of the matter is the other plays invested/are investing a lot of time in it and that's reason enough to let your kid finish and punish him later if he reasonably could have known that something was going to happen during the course of the game that he should be there for.

And what's this opposition to heating up dinner?

No, the parents definitely wasted my time, if you force someone to not honor a commitment they made to me that's on you. Doesn't mean that you even made the wrong call but it is on you.

No, dinner time is NOT flexible - at least not in any household worth a damn. Dinnertime is an important family social event (Again, in households worth a damn). And if you queue with randoms, expect random dropoffs.

You do it every day, there is no social event that you need to have every day regardless of circumstance. The glory of doing things every day is that no one instance is that important. I mean, for fucks sake, most parents let their kids not eat dinner at home over "hey I'm eating at Steve's" , if "I feel like eating at someone else's house" is a viable reason to miss it, how is "I don't feel like wasting 4.5 hours of other peoples' time" illegitimate?

In households "worth a damn" (and I really like how judgmental you are of families that aren't yours) they realize that a daily occurrence is something that you can miss.

My response - It's your fault for playing a game with children, children who have things to do like homework, baseball/football/choir practice, oh and a basic need to eat and sleep in a timely manner. You may not think this is important, but their parents do. These are not your kids, so you don't get a say in how they are raised. That's the job of their parents. This is not South Korea. Reasonable, responsible people do not let basic needs slip simply because your game is stretched to 90 minutes rather than 45. Get over it. Or better yet, find another hobby where there is not a random chance of having to deal with other people's children. I hear there's a lot of great single-player games out there. Maybe try one of them, or better yet, go outside, get some sun. Sunlight can be just as necessary as the air we breathe, a fact many people often forget.

Basic needs like eating and sleeping slipping is something that needs to happen on routine to matter, or was I fucking ironman because at 9 I was alright waking up with 5-6 hours of sleep? I legitimately do not get how coddled these kids must be, it must be suffocating.

Homework is flexible (assuming school isn't in the next 30 minutes and your kid is under the age of 13), no one has a problem with you pulling your brat out of a game because he actually has practice for something on a set schedule and he started a game too close to it because that's actually a prior engagement

Anything about how we don't have a say is a strawman, if we were trying to have a direct say the open letter would be to the government, not the parents. I assume we both live in countries with free speech and free expression and what that means is if your parenting causes me to have a negative reaction that is valid as is my right to say it and try to change social perceptions around it. It's called feedback. If I perceive a flaw in Breaking Bad no one is going to tell me "That's the job of the director and actors, you don't get a say in how they're created", everyone understands that.

 

[Clive_Paddington]

Why is kids leaving such a big problem? I played DOTA2 for a while, and while I experienced my fair share of disconnects, not many of them were because kids had to leave. Maybe it's a bigger problem in LoL, but then I still don't understand why people can't just suck it up and move on to the next game. Yeah it sucks, and it's time wasted, but really, do you need to go and complain to parents about it?

First of all, why does the obligation to 9 random strangers that the kid will probably never meet in person anyway have more value than the kids own parents. I don't know how it works at other peoples houses, but at my house when dinner was ready, you had dinner NOW. You interact with your family. You talk, you eat the food they prepared for you, which they paid for. Yeah, it's good to teach respect for people over the internet so they don't end up thinking hiding behind a screen means that they can do or say whatever they want; but will leaving a game halfway through really make them disrespect others on the internet more? OF COURSE NOT. ALL THEY WILL LEARN IS THAT THEIR FAMILY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SOME RANDOMS THEY MET ON THE INTERNET.

Second of all, does it really matter that much? Is it really that serious of a problem? I hesitate to call it a "problem" even; "mild annoyance" is really more fitting term. Yeah, it sucks to lose a game cause some dumb kid started playing half an hour before bedtime. SUCK IT UP. It's not going to completely ruin your LoL experience is it? Don't preach the bullshit that LoL is a serious commitment when you start every game because that is laughable. If the game is really that serious, I don't expect that the kid is going to be stupid enough to start playing 5 minutes before dinner. Otherwise, you are playing a public game, with strangers, stop expecting them to change THEIR lives to suit YOUR needs. THE GAME IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN SOMEONE ELSE'S REAL LIFE.

Thirdly, these are kids we are talking about. Yes, it's all well and good to organise your kids, and give them good time management skills. BUT THEY ARE STILL KIDS. Even people aged 16+ can still be idiots and play games at bad times. You can organise the fairest, most optimal schedule for your kids gaming, but honestly, what kind of kid is EVER going to follow that plan to the letter, every day, for the entirety of the time that they live at home. Not any normal kid. Don't just assume that they have a bad parent, and that the parent cannot adequately organise a child's gaming life because PARENTS CANNOT PERFECTLY CONTROL THEIR KIDS. Sometimes, people do stupid things, ESPECIALLY kids.

The open letter itself does have a point. I do understand how annoying it is. But to me this problem seems so insignificant. The letter, and the people defending it just come off as really entitled, and seem like they don't understand what raising a child is actually like.

 

[Savagezion]

I did not ever fucking say that it was more important, at most I would say it is worth consideration. Don't put words in my mouth. My comment about following the meta was in response to you calling it disrespectful to call someone out for not following it.

OK, well then I can tell you it has been considered and most parents will consider it less important and the answer is still "No". Let me give you something to consider, 16 year old Timmy has been told 3 times now to take out the trash. First time, was in a match and he said "OK", and the parent waited having other stuff to worry about. Well, Timmy forgot to do it as kids with video games tend to do and started another match. The parent tells him again, where he apologizes and says he will after the new match. "No, do it now" and suddenly the parent is a dick and the new match is more important than Timmy's chores. I am not going to wait 3 hours for the trash to be taken out because he keeps forgetting. I am also not going to punish him for abandoning the game when I told him to do it. If his forgetting to do it at a convenient time results in backlash within the game, I trust him to handle that himself. I am not going to intervene and play mediator between him and a bunch of people playing video games. I am gonna let you all work it out. More than likely though the kid isn't as patient, mature, or articulate as he needs to be in that scenario and will get pissed and either quit playing or just ignore anytime someone gives him backlash. I may give him guidance but to be honest, I will tell him how I see it.

They'll get over it, you had more important shit to do, games are for fun. If they were that worried about it, maybe they should find people like themselves to play with. I may say something about him trying not to do it as it will effect his time with the game negatively but ultimately it doesn't matter. He has to work it out on his own. That's how many social skills develop. Things like his actual mental investment in the game, his mental investment in gaming, why he plays, etc may come in. He may just not care and if he doesn't I am not going to tell him he can't play, that is a decision for the devs. Barking up the parent tree is the wrong tree, I am telling you. You got the the dev tree and the community tree. It is one of those you are looking for.

Let's be real here 99% of LoL players are not professionals or "varsity", they are bitchy gamers. And if you ARE a professional/"varsity" surely you'll do OK without the 10 year old on your team, and if you can't - as a professional your win rate must be so high you can afford a loss. Plus, I am all for people getting kicked off the varsity team - even mid game if they don't do the schoolwork involved. Same type of thing.

Consideration. I am not saying that if Jimmy is flunking algebra that you should still let him play, I am saying that pulling him out of a game to go wash the car is a bit irritating. And since when is varsity pro? High schoolers are far from professionals, and people may not be talking about 10 year olds. Teens still have parents sometimes, or so I am told. Maybe that changed in the past few years, and now suddenly all teens never have to listen to their parents at any time.

Pro level players would be playing against and alongside pro level players, so no, they cannot handle losing a player. In fact, they are punished even worse for having one less player, as their opponents are probably going to know how to exploit that better. Your total ignorance of this game and its community continues to undermine your arguments.

Oh, and thanks for calling me bitchy. You must be so proud of yourself for being the first to stoop to insults in an argument with somebody from as toxic of a community as mine. I'll go make you a trophy if you want. You can put it on your shelf, so everybody can know how great a person you are, for insulting people you are totally unfamiliar with.

First, age is irrelevant. Wash the car = flunking algebra in this scenario. The scenario paints priorities. Anything I make him quit the game for is something that he knew he had to do long before logging in. It is a prior obligation. Taking out the trash he has known is his 'job' all year. Completely the match is an obligation he has for 10 minutes.

Ha, teens are the worst about listening BTW. They have so many things floating around in their heads that instructions and consequences tend to get pushed out. I am still ok with my kid dropping the game at a teenage level because a teen has even more important need for responsibility. While many teens think they are gonna grow up and be professional gamers or whatever, the odds are against them and if my teen isn't already making money off gaming, it isn't a high priority. Now, if my kid pulls in $50,000 a year playing competitively at age 15, then I will let him stay in the match because he has a shot. However, if not, he needs to learn to be able to put down his toys and go fulfill his responsibilities that will end up paying his bills and making his life better. It may seem like unimportant trash but it is the exercise, not the job itself that is important here. Do you find it irritating when he disregards you and instead does what I want? Well flip it, it is irritating when he ignores me and does what you want. But these things take time to learn and he will make many mistakes, and I know you aren't planning on sticking around and helping him learn how to sort everything. However, that is my commitment and unfortunately, a match of LoL falls WAY down the priority list. Making sure he chews with his mouth closed is actually more important.

As for the bitchy comment, don't thank me, the community earned it themselves. Perhaps they can write a guide to priorities and parenting since they know so much about it. Maybe it can be the next letter! I can hardly wait, I got goosebumps.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

I did not ever fucking say that it was more important, at most I would say it is worth consideration. Don't put words in my mouth. My comment about following the meta was in response to you calling it disrespectful to call someone out for not following it.

OK, well then I can tell you it has been considered and most parents will consider it less important and the answer is still "No". Let me give you something to consider, 16 year old Timmy has been told 3 times now to take out the trash. First time, was in a match and he said "OK", and the parent waited having other stuff to worry about. Well, Timmy forgot to do it as kids with video games tend to do and started another match. The parent tells him again, where he apologizes and says he will after the new match. "No, do it now" and suddenly the parent is a dick and the new match is more important than Timmy's chores. I am not going to wait 3 hours for the trash to be taken out because he keeps forgetting. I am also not going to punish him for abandoning the game when I told him to do it. If his forgetting to do it at a convenient time results in backlash within the game, I trust him to handle that himself. I am not going to intervene and play mediator between him and a bunch of people playing video games. I am gonna let you all work it out. More than likely though the kid isn't as patient, mature, or articulate as he needs to be in that scenario and will get pissed and either quit playing or just ignore anytime someone gives him backlash. I may give him guidance but to be honest, I will tell him how I see it.

Great. Whatever. At least you considered it. Assuming you actually did.

They'll get over it, you had more important shit to do, games are for fun.

Something you don't often see said about any other sport. Games can be for more than fun.

If they were that worried about it, maybe they should find people like themselves to play with.

I'm not explaining why this would not work again. Just comparing it to another sport, if you want to play football, just go make your own teams.

I may say something about him trying not to do it as it will effect his time with the game negatively but ultimately it doesn't matter. He has to work it out on his own. That's how many social skills develop. Things like his actual mental investment in the game, his mental investment in gaming, why he plays, etc may come in. He may just not care and if he doesn't I am not going to tell him he can't play, that is a decision for the devs. Barking up the parent tree is the wrong tree, I am telling you. You got the the dev tree and the community tree. It is one of those you are looking for.

Guess fucking what? They do bark up that tree. Constantly. Riot has teams of neuroscientists working on things like this, and that is not at all a joke. The community and devs for League are fucking devoted to reducing trolling and leaving. But no, clearly they are just trying to blame parents, because one guy wrote a letter asking parents to consider how this game and it's community works when dealing with their child, as though no other entity has ever done that.

Let's be real here 99% of LoL players are not professionals or "varsity", they are bitchy gamers. And if you ARE a professional/"varsity" surely you'll do OK without the 10 year old on your team, and if you can't - as a professional your win rate must be so high you can afford a loss. Plus, I am all for people getting kicked off the varsity team - even mid game if they don't do the schoolwork involved. Same type of thing.

Consideration. I am not saying that if Jimmy is flunking algebra that you should still let him play, I am saying that pulling him out of a game to go wash the car is a bit irritating. And since when is varsity pro? High schoolers are far from professionals, and people may not be talking about 10 year olds. Teens still have parents sometimes, or so I am told. Maybe that changed in the past few years, and now suddenly all teens never have to listen to their parents at any time.

Pro level players would be playing against and alongside pro level players, so no, they cannot handle losing a player. In fact, they are punished even worse for having one less player, as their opponents are probably going to know how to exploit that better. Your total ignorance of this game and its community continues to undermine your arguments.

Oh, and thanks for calling me bitchy. You must be so proud of yourself for being the first to stoop to insults in an argument with somebody from as toxic of a community as mine. I'll go make you a trophy if you want. You can put it on your shelf, so everybody can know how great a person you are, for insulting people you are totally unfamiliar with.

First, age is irrelevant. Wash the car = flunking algebra in this scenario. The scenario paints priorities. Anything I make him quit the game for is something that he knew he had to do long before logging in. It is a prior obligation. Taking out the trash he has known is his 'job' all year. Completely the match is an obligation he has for 10 minutes.

Really? He knew beforehand? Then that's his damn fault. This person is not saying otherwise. In fact, this person is asking you to punish him for that. Me, I don't think that's my place.

Ha, teens are the worst about listening BTW. They have so many things floating around in their heads that instructions and consequences tend to get pushed out. I am still ok with my kid dropping the game at a teenage level because a teen has even more important need for responsibility.

Cool.

While many teens think they are gonna grow up and be professional gamers or whatever, the odds are against them and if my teen isn't already making money off gaming, it isn't a high priority. Now, if my kid pulls in $50,000 a year playing competitively at age 15, then I will let him stay in the match because he has a shot. However, if not, he needs to learn to be able to put down his toys and go fulfill his responsibilities that will end up paying his bills and making his life better.

Then how exactly are they supposed to get good enough to make 50,000 dollars? I wonder how many people would apply this line of thought to extra curriculars.

It may seem like unimportant trash but it is the exercise, not the job itself that is important here. Do you find it irritating when he disregards you and instead does what I want? Well flip it, it is irritating when he ignores me and does what you want. But these things take time to learn and he will make many mistakes, and I know you aren't planning on sticking around and helping him learn how to sort everything. However, that is my commitment and unfortunately, a match of LoL falls WAY down the priority list. Making sure he chews with his mouth closed is actually more important.

I don't get why you're so absolute about this. Sometimes what you want them to do may honestly be pretty damn trivial. That's why consideration is what matters here. If what you want does really matter more, then fine, but opperating on the assumption that it will always matter more is pretty ridiculous.

As for the bitchy comment, don't thank me, the community earned it themselves. Perhaps they can write a guide to priorities and parenting since they know so much about it. Maybe it can be the next letter! I can hardly wait, I got goosebumps.

I definitely trust your opinion on this community, given how knowledgable you've shown yourself to be about it thus far. I'll also make sure to look to you for advice on sweet burns, sarcasm, how to actually address another human being rather than some manufactured parody, and generalizations.

 

[Loonyyy]

In other news, person behaving like a child presumes to instruct others on dealing with children.

 

[Mutant1988]

I think the bigger issue is that the game is set to super serious mode at all times.

Maybe they should advertise playing it as being work rather than entertainment.

Or maybe the people making demands of others should start paying salaries.

 

[Riotguards]

so essentially pugs will be pugs

 

[Dandark]

Im confused. Did he actually send this letter to parents or something?

Because people seem to be outraged and furious over a FORUM POST!
He made a forum post on the league forums where he at best wanted to talk about the issue and make suggestions on how to improve it or at worst where he vented about annoying kids and their parents.

If he just made a forum post then why are people so angry that he dared to criticize parents. The nerve!

 

[LetalisK]

I'm not sure which is worse: that this guy is giving out parental advice because his toy stats are so important or that anyone gives a shit that he is.

Either way, I don't see this as an undeserved sense of self-importance that is exclusive in the slightest to gamers. I see it as quintessentially human.

 

[Mutant1988]

Im confused. Did he actually send this letter to parents or something?

Because people seem to be outraged and furious over a FORUM POST!
He made a forum post on the league forums where he at best wanted to talk about the issue and make suggestions on how to improve it or at worst where he vented about annoying kids and their parents.

If he just made a forum post then why are people so angry that he dared to criticize parents. The nerve!

If it's addressed to parents that are not gamers, they are very unlikely to see it.

If it's addressed to parents that do play games, they feel that it talks down to them and assumes they are terrible parents.

All seemingly because this one guy got upset about a kid (Or a reported pattern, if it's second hand information) quitting games he are in and keeping that indignant anger alive long enough to forward a complaint to the parents of that kid.

As opposed to any other kind of quitter where he would just have to deal with it, because shouting out into the ether accomplishes nothing.

It's just kinda nuts. People are allowed to say so.

It does highlight some glaring issues with the game itself though.

I'm not sure which is worse: that this guy is giving out parental advice because his toy stats are so important or that anyone gives a shit that he is.

Wouldn't be on the internet if we didn't care far too much about mostly inconsequential crap.

 

[Bat Vader]

Clearly you are actually completely unaware of what you are talking about, because virtually every single major voice in the community is going to tell you that if you want to do well in solo queue, you have to be respectful and considerate towards other players. It is the best way to climb the rankings. Communicate, be patient, be positive, don't give up, all kinds of stuff like that. But no, nobody actually talks about that ever, the fifty Valkrin videos I watched on the subject were just an illusion.

And getting people to follow the meta to some degree is hardly disrespectful. Nobody would be okay with the guy who decided he wanted to play goalie too, so now there's two goalies. Nobody would be okay with the runningback who decided today he was a lineman. But suddenly when you apply this to competitive video games, it's all just a joke, and the people who get irritated are just little children.

And what the hell do you mean by class?

Clearly, I don't know what I am talking about as I initially said that these games don't appeal to me due to the community. Like it or not, you are actually arguing meta rules video games > parenting responsibility for children. I know you think you are not because you are going "but this is the rule structure" However, you are claiming that rule structure of a video game is more important than rule structure of your REAL home life. Just because they are both rule structures does NOT make them equal. I am worried about teaching my kid priorities and values for every day life, you are more worried about losing a match and wanting him to learn about priorities within the confines of a program. Your desires are selfish, mine have only him in mind. The letter asserts that respect for strangers is more important than responsibilities to yourself and your home. I see how the letter addresses respect for others but I also see how it throws out respect for rules and parents right out the window in favor of a game.

I did not ever fucking say that it was more important, at most I would say it is worth consideration. Don't put words in my mouth. My comment about following the meta was in response to you calling it disrespectful to call someone out for not following it.

your LoL record in no way impacts your real life.

Given the lively professional and entertainment scene for League, this is absolutely false. At a certain level of play, this is no different than most any other sport, and if some parent walked up to the Varsity quarterback during the homecoming game and told them that they need to go take out the trash, you can bet that the other players on their team would be rightfully angry.

Let's be real here 99% of LoL players are not professionals or "varsity", they are bitchy gamers. And if you ARE a professional/"varsity" surely you'll do OK without the 10 year old on your team, and if you can't - as a professional your win rate must be so high you can afford a loss. Plus, I am all for people getting kicked off the varsity team - even mid game if they don't do the schoolwork involved. Same type of thing.

Consideration. I am not saying that if Jimmy is flunking algebra that you should still let him play, I am saying that pulling him out of a game to go wash the car is a bit irritating. And since when is varsity pro? High schoolers are far from professionals, and people may not be talking about 10 year olds. Teens still have parents sometimes, or so I am told. Maybe that changed in the past few years, and now suddenly all teens never have to listen to their parents at any time.

Pro level players would be playing against and alongside pro level players, so no, they cannot handle losing a player. In fact, they are punished even worse for having one less player, as their opponents are probably going to know how to exploit that better. Your total ignorance of this game and its community continues to undermine your arguments.

Oh, and thanks for calling me bitchy. You must be so proud of yourself for being the first to stoop to insults in an argument with somebody from as toxic of a community as mine. I'll go make you a trophy if you want. You can put it on your shelf, so everybody can know how great a person you are, for insulting people you are totally unfamiliar with.

If the kid knew he/she needed to wash the car that day and instead decide to play LoL or some other MP game it is their fault for getting called away from it. Getting angry at the parents because the kid isn't doing what they are supposed to do is just immature. Yeah if the kid didn't know they were supposed to do that and then get called away I can see that as being a very small legitimate compliant. Maybe it's because I am almost 30 but the fact that some people take games this seriously makes me cringe.

If it was during tournament practice than yeah I would agree that it a very legitimate compliant. In WoW I have made it a point to not do dungeons with people that aren't under the age of 25. I work with a very specific team of people and it works well. This entire letter can be boiled down to PUGs suck.

 

[conmag9]

Am I missing something? A fairly polite request that parents not kick their kids off willy nilly? Is there some sort of secret message I need a decoder ring to figure out where he angrily condemns parents for not placing the greatest of importance on LoL and that they shouldn't even consider removing a player from a team even if the house is on fire? My first thought on Penny Arcade's response was that it was a parody of someone massively overreacting to the letter.

It's just a call to be aware that it's polite to make sure the disconnection doesn't happen outside an emergency. He's not saying they should re-arange their schedules to allow for LoL to go on uninterrupted, he's just asking that they make sure kids don't start something they can't finish, where possible. That's...not even remotely unreasonable. Solid life skill, too.

I know I've played through matches I wasn't interested in finishing because I didn't want to throw the team off (we had some good turn around that way too!). It's just common decency.

 

[FC Groningen]

Right... After reading the letter and some answers here, all I can say about it is this. Any argument that comes down to or implies "don't waste MY time" implies such a high level of self entitlement it's sickening. In fact, these arguments should not just be ignored but laughed at and be ridiculed.

These people act like nothing takes priority over their time and "fun" while it should be the other way around. Everything has priority over an online game. Dinner, school, minor chores and bedtime. The people uttering these words could use some discipline in real life as well.

 

[Marsell]

I love how no one thinks to just use parental controls to solve this easily solvable problem.
I don't even play LoL but both sides are in the wrong, the league community is being childish in implying that game take priority over other people's real life. And the response is throwing common online courtesy out the window because "its just a game" And the easy fix of putting a timed warning parental lock on they're kids computer IS NOT THAT HARD AND IS WHY WE HAVE THEM.

1hr before bedtime/dinner/whatever, pop-up that says "finish it up, nearly ____"
Then the parent terminates internet connection when he/she IS done. And I'm pretty sure you can do that from your phone.
And while its not REALLY your job to give a heads-up or grace period, its kind a d--k move not to.

Or LoL could put up curfews on ranked games for underage players during school nights.

 

[Marsell]

Am I missing something? A fairly polite request that parents not kick their kids off willy nilly? Is there some sort of secret message I need a decoder ring to figure out where he angrily condemns parents for not placing the greatest of importance on LoL and that they shouldn't even consider removing a player from a team even if the house is on fire? My first thought on Penny Arcade's response was that it was a parody of someone massively overreacting to the letter.

It's just a call to be aware that it's polite to make sure the disconnection doesn't happen outside an emergency. He's not saying they should re-arange their schedules to allow for LoL to go on uninterrupted, he's just asking that they make sure kids don't start something they can't finish, where possible. That's...not even remotely unreasonable. Solid life skill, too.

I know I've played through matches I wasn't interested in finishing because I didn't want to throw the team off (we had some good turn around that way too!). It's just common decency.

I think the PA response was generally aimed at the kids, which IS valid.
for reals tho
you kidss have NO IDEA. HOW MUCH. YOU HAVE TO LOVE SOMEONE. TO PUT UP WITH THAT SHIT.

 

[Savagezion]

EDIT: As for the kid leaving to do a chore, that is respect. The kid respects the computer I provided, the internet, the food, the shelter, etc. The kid's priorities are indeed correct. Wouldn't it be nice if the community would show respect and just accept that he has to go eat dinner? Imaginary scores and records are less important than this kid whom you respect eating dinner with their family and you respect that. There will always be more games to play and your LoL record in no way impacts your real life.

Shouldn't that be going both ways, though?

I just don't think this is an "either/or," "all or nothing" situation.

Yeah, people should respect that there are unpredictable elements in real life and sometimes we all - young or old - have to quit a game because of pressing or more important needs.

But at the same time, isn't it also somewhat important to instill sportsmanlike conduct within our own children? It's not a situation where it's all one person or community's fault or another, as I see it. Here's how I look at it:

Yeah, I'd like most online communities to be more respectful - that's a problem I worry about a lot for my own son. It's only going to be getting worse by the time it's old enough to affect him. I would like most communities to start getting their act together - most of this is getting pretty tired. But it's also my job to do my part to try and help my son be more respectful in his interactions with those communities as well, then - otherwise you've just got a bunch of parents laying the blame on everyone else and nothing's going to get better.

(ie, if everyone that's contributing towards the hostility and lack of respect online was raised better and with more respectful values this wouldn't be a problem in the first place. If I want to expect better behavior from others online then I kind of have to do my part to raise the bar as well - and that unfortunately does mean considering other people online and treating them with the respect I would like to be treated with.)

So yeah, I don't disagree with you - I just think you're only talking to half of the issue.

I have been in good communities online and I will say that the reason they are good is because respectful behavior encourages respectful behavior. Just as vile behavior encourages itself. People are going to argue in any community no matter what but how they argue is more important. Social skills I possess can not be easily translated into my kid. I can encourage good sportsmanship but the kid has a mind all his own. He can put up an act in front of me and be a total douche when I am not there. Ultimately, how he acts around others is on his shoulders alone. Now, ditching a game in the middle really depends on the circumstances. The letter would have you believe that parents change the trash bag and have the kid go take it out immediately based on the parents time table. I highly doubt that is the case every time.

You should also know that the urgency of the trash situation actually has events of the whole day or even the whole week weighing in. Not just the past 10 minutes. We can teach our kids about good sportsmanship while making them abandon every game of LoL. It is a principle not restricted to LoL. I believe in online etiquette for multiplayer. I have a long history of suffering inconsideration of others online since I hit 20. D/Cs, unannounced AFK, and all the goodies. I have ways I deal with it and the thought of going to someone's parents has never crossed my mind. Honestly, that screams of juvenile behavior IMO.

The reason why the respect doesn't necessarily go both ways is because a random on the internet is not = parent when it comes to respect. Respect is important to know how to exercise on a regular basis. I actually believe in showing respect to everyone no matter who they are. However, respect doesn't mean doing whatever someone asks of you or agreeing with everything. I am sure someone in this thread would consider me as being disrespectful or not showing respect. However, I can respect them while not respecting their point of view or actions. I respect THEM and sometimes showing respect means questioning or even arguing their point of view or actions. As there is also a level of self respect to consider. Which is why it is perfectly accpetable for two people to hate one another and yet still respect each other. That is giving them the respect to voice your point of view. The last guy said I called him bitchy but I didn't aim that at anyone, I aimed it at a behavior in the community as evidenced by the letter and some replies. He embraced it and took it upon himself to be included in the 'bitchy gamer' comment willingly in order to claim I was slandering so that he could passive aggressively slander me. The whole last line was a dig, which I don't mind. I actually LOVE those parts of debates. It is like a game itself.

I probably am talking to half the issue but that is because parenting is such a large task that I don't want to tell someone else how they should be doing it, as each kid requires special needs. The same set of rules for this kid may not be necessary for another kid. That isn't how parenting works. Some kids need a softer approach some need a more firm approach, and then you get to what kind of person they are. As a result, I am more likely to tell someone how to approach a game and griefing within it than I am about how to parent their child. Because really what is lost here is a match of a game and game=/= child. The letter says in the subtext that no matter what those lessons you are trying to teach are, this game should be given precedent over any lesson.

Parenting is quite possibly the largest commitment you will ever face in your life. A life depends on that commitment quite literally whether you wanted to be a parent or not. A game of League of Legends is not on the same road so this doesn't go both ways, both just happen to exist. I acknowledge what the letter is talking about but I can teach my kids those things in the letter like commitment while disregarding LoL at the same time. However, doing so puts their match into perspective as to how insignificant it is in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Savagezion]

I may say something about him trying not to do it as it will effect his time with the game negatively but ultimately it doesn't matter. He has to work it out on his own. That's how many social skills develop. Things like his actual mental investment in the game, his mental investment in gaming, why he plays, etc may come in. He may just not care and if he doesn't I am not going to tell him he can't play, that is a decision for the devs. Barking up the parent tree is the wrong tree, I am telling you. You got the the dev tree and the community tree. It is one of those you are looking for.

Guess fucking what? They do bark up that tree. Constantly. Riot has teams of neuroscientists working on things like this, and that is not at all a joke. The community and devs for League are fucking devoted to reducing trolling and leaving. But no, clearly they are just trying to blame parents, because one guy wrote a letter asking parents to consider how this game and it's community works when dealing with their child, as though no other entity has ever done that.

In case you missed it, this thread is about the letter. Our discussion has been about the contents of the letter. My point stands. It's the wrong tree. When they "figure it out" I won't even annoy you by saying "I told you so".

First, age is irrelevant. Wash the car = flunking algebra in this scenario. The scenario paints priorities. Anything I make him quit the game for is something that he knew he had to do long before logging in. It is a prior obligation. Taking out the trash he has known is his 'job' all year. Completely the match is an obligation he has for 10 minutes.

Really? He knew beforehand? Then that's his damn fault. This person is not saying otherwise. In fact, this person is asking you to punish him for that. Me, I don't think that's my place.

Exactly, it is his fault. Do you know how annoying that is to have that be true multiple times a day? The irresponsibility of that 1 match that is "so irritating" is every 20 minutes to an hour for me. This is merely 'another one'. Parenting is about choosing what is more important to punish your kid for more. You will have to accept some lost battles to win the war. I think the kid and parent involved know more about the 'war' and this particular 'battle' than a guy he was matched with online. Believe it or not, punishment is not the go-to answer when parenting.

While many teens think they are gonna grow up and be professional gamers or whatever, the odds are against them and if my teen isn't already making money off gaming, it isn't a high priority. Now, if my kid pulls in $50,000 a year playing competitively at age 15, then I will let him stay in the match because he has a shot. However, if not, he needs to learn to be able to put down his toys and go fulfill his responsibilities that will end up paying his bills and making his life better.

Then how exactly are they supposed to get good enough to make 50,000 dollars? I wonder how many people would apply this line of thought to extra curriculars.

Haha, yeah right. Maybe I should let my kid shirk responsibility and just walk around singing an hope they become a singer. Or shirk it to play baseball all the time and hope he goes pro. It doesn't work that way. DO you know how many kids out there want to play video games for a living? If my kid is winning ANY money through playing video games I will consider letting him play more. But that isn't the case and at age 15 he has 3-5 years to get some skill where he can make money. Are you saying I should let him prioritize video games during that time and just cross my fingers? There is strategy to LoL yes? How do you not see the hole in that logic?

It may seem like unimportant trash but it is the exercise, not the job itself that is important here. Do you find it irritating when he disregards you and instead does what I want? Well flip it, it is irritating when he ignores me and does what you want. But these things take time to learn and he will make many mistakes, and I know you aren't planning on sticking around and helping him learn how to sort everything. However, that is my commitment and unfortunately, a match of LoL falls WAY down the priority list. Making sure he chews with his mouth closed is actually more important.

I don't get why you're so absolute about this. Sometimes what you want them to do may honestly be pretty damn trivial. That's why consideration is what matters here. If what you want does really matter more, then fine, but opperating on the assumption that it will always matter more is pretty ridiculous.

A match of LoL, doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. To you taking out the trash is about taking out the trash. To me it can spawn into helping the kid form structure in his daily life. (Which is clearly absent if he is ignoring doing it to play games.) You focus on what they are doing and not why it is being pressed. It is more about helping the kid form habitual routines than taking out the trash. Hell, I could take out the trash. But that isn't the point.

As for the bitchy comment, don't thank me, the community earned it themselves. Perhaps they can write a guide to priorities and parenting since they know so much about it. Maybe it can be the next letter! I can hardly wait, I got goosebumps.

I definitely trust your opinion on this community, given how knowledgable you've shown yourself to be about it thus far. I'll also make sure to look to you for advice on sweet burns, sarcasm, how to actually address another human being rather than some manufactured parody, and generalizations.

Why bother? You seem to be doing just fine as you are. We have matched each other point for point. You clearly haven't made the same accusations about parenting. Hell, maybe you can right a letter about how to address a human being since you seem so good at it. What you fail to grasp is that parents are not a part of your online community. I tell you what, how about we also suggest that people stop making fun of Justin Beiber and Twilight so that those online communities don't have to suffer from trolls and griefers?