Open Letter to Parents of League of Legends' Players

[theNater]

Let me ask you this? do you enjoy standing in line for 45 minutes while the cashier does her fingers?

That's pretty terrible. It's right up there with having to wait 30-45 minutes before eating dinner because my brother needed to finish his game. Dinner was a family affair at my house, you see.

The amount of hypocrisy in this thread is staggering. We've got folks pointing out that the other people in the game are real people, deserving of respect, while ignoring that the family is also real people, deserving of respect. Getting mad at those who say "it's just a game" while simultaneously saying "it's just dinner", "it's just bedtime", or "it's just chores".

And putting all the onus on the parents, when it's the kid causing the problems. This isn't a letter to the kids, telling them to check with their parents if there are chores they should do before they start. This isn't a letter to LoL players, suggesting they take a moment at the start of the game to remind their teammates to do that. It's like blaming the cops for issuing your friend a speeding ticket instead of, y'know, blaming your friend for speeding.

 

[sonofliber]

Let me ask you this? do you enjoy standing in line for 45 minutes while the cashier does her fingers?

That's pretty terrible. It's right up there with having to wait 30-45 minutes before eating dinner because my brother needed to finish his game. Dinner was a family affair at my house, you see.

The amount of hypocrisy in this thread is staggering. We've got folks pointing out that the other people in the game are real people, deserving of respect, while ignoring that the family is also real people, deserving of respect. Getting mad at those who say "it's just a game" while simultaneously saying "it's just dinner", "it's just bedtime", or "it's just chores".

And putting all the onus on the parents, when it's the kid causing the problems. This isn't a letter to the kids, telling them to check with their parents if there are chores they should do before they start. This isn't a letter to LoL players, suggesting they take a moment at the start of the game to remind their teammates to do that. It's like blaming the cops for issuing your friend a speeding ticket instead of, y'know, blaming your friend for speeding.

A big difference:

you can do other thing while your brother is playing, people who are playing can not and are stuck there (do you want ot read a book? you can, watch tv? you can. take a shower? you can, can i do anything like that while playing lol? no i fucking cant)

And most importantly you have the ability to kick the living shit out of your brother after it.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

Yep, sounds like the LoL community.

Their ranking is the ABSOLUTE MOST IMPORTANT THING, guys. So you can't screw it up by leaving a game to spend time with your family, or being bad at the game, or playing a character that they don't like, or playing a character in a sub-optimal configuration.

The League community is just gross.

Yeah lets fuck people over, fuck the randoms, those non exisitant non me or my family people, its not like they are humans too

It's not about them being people or not, it's about the fact that it's a game.

Just a game. Basically a virtual football match.

It's some kid throwing a tantrum because Timmy's mom interrupted their football game when she had to take him to the dentist.

You're not being "fucked over", you're being put at a disadvantage in a video game multiplayer match. Get some perspective.

It's not just a game. It's half an hour of 9 people. What if someone had a bit free time for one match and you just leave it because you started it knowing you will go in 20 minutes? He can't play a new full match, he wasted his time because you are an asshole who knew he couldn't finish the game but started it.
The letter isn't asking for people to never ever quit the game. It's just asking to be reasonable and realize that on the other end are people as well, with their free time. If your kid must go to bed at 9, don't let him play the game at 8:30. Tell him to play something else.
The letter is actually right. The parents are just teaching their kids that it's okay to fuck over other people. Why would the kid care about anyone else time? Just fuck those stranger who committed their free time to have fun with each other.

There are things outside of peoples control, but parents not teaching their kids about time management and shit is not such a thing.

 

[irishda]

A big difference:

you can do other thing while your brother is playing, people who are playing can not and are stuck there (do you want ot read a book? you can, watch tv? you can. take a shower? you can, can i do anything like that while playing lol? no i fucking cant)

And most importantly you have the ability to kick the living shit out of your brother after it.

I mean, you could play a game that doesn't have an inherently flawed structure (as leveling is so important, it means new players can't enter without just providing fodder for the other team), or you could accept the risk that playing such a game type carries with it. Or, if you can't accept the risk, you could not play the game and do something like read a book, watch TV, take a shower.

As I said, I never played LoL, but I did play an MOBA in the Starcraft arcade (Hero attack). We experienced plenty of leavers too, but the arguments focused on the Leaver Bonus granted to teams with fewer heroes (no idea if LoL does that or not). We argued about what percentage of a stat increase was good or what was too much, not trying to stop people from leaving.

 

[SmallHatLogan]

Okay, I skipped over the last couple of pages of the discussion so I apologise if I'm repeating someone. But it seems the issue stems from the fact that people assign different levels of importance to different things. I know some people are like "well you wouldn't let one of the player's mothers storm onto the field during the super bowl to drag their son off" (yes, I'm using hyperbole here), but the thing is the "it's just a game" crowd have a point. In the sense that to the parents (and possibly some of the kids too) it is just a game. They probably see yanking their kids out of a LoL game as being on par with interrupting a friendly game of football between the neighbourhood kids or a game of monopoly (assuming we're living in a weird parallel universe where kids still played outside or played monopoly at all), which has roughly the same time commitment as a game of LoL.

If I was at a friends place playing a board game that took an hour to complete and my mother came along halfway through and said it was time to go and the other players were mad, well tough shit (and while it's true a board game can be put on hold indefinitely, it's unlikely to happen with kids). I guess the difference these days with MOBAs is that the fans are more serious and rabid than ever. But do you think the parents are likely to care? Probably not. They'll just think you're weird for being so serious about it.

In regards to the letter, as someone who grew up with a mother who didn't understand "I can't turn the game off until I reach a save point" I had a shred of sympathy. But that vanished when he started giving parenting advice.

 

[Dansen]

This is why I stay the fuck away from ranked in League.

Too much "srs business"

Well the only reason I go on to ranked is to get a shot at the rewards. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case for most of the people in ranked.

 

[Adultism]

I facepalmed sooo hard, for obvious reasons. Sometimes life comes a calling and you must take care of your problems. Also using kids as a scapegoat is pretty pathetic, I know plenty of adults who often up and have to leave mid game because of something important. You can't be upset at someone for having priorities and if you do, well you're a part of the problem.

Though I avoid LoL like the plague, the hatred and stupidity that flow out of that game have far reaches in the gaming community. Hearing things like "LOL I BET YOU PLAY LoL, LOSER." Is commonplace in MMOs these days and quite disheartening. + The mere fact that people take that game so seriously that they will personally attacking you / try to ruin your life if you win against them or call them out for their douchebaggary is utterly unforgivable.

 

[mike1921]

Let me ask you this? do you enjoy standing in line for 45 minutes while the cashier does her fingers?

That's pretty terrible. It's right up there with having to wait 30-45 minutes before eating dinner because my brother needed to finish his game. Dinner was a family affair at my house, you see.

The amount of hypocrisy in this thread is staggering. We've got folks pointing out that the other people in the game are real people, deserving of respect, while ignoring that the family is also real people, deserving of respect. Getting mad at those who say "it's just a game" while simultaneously saying "it's just dinner", "it's just bedtime", or "it's just chores".

And putting all the onus on the parents, when it's the kid causing the problems. This isn't a letter to the kids, telling them to check with their parents if there are chores they should do before they start. This isn't a letter to LoL players, suggesting they take a moment at the start of the game to remind their teammates to do that. It's like blaming the cops for issuing your friend a speeding ticket instead of, y'know, blaming your friend for speeding.

If you would have dinner if your brother was over a friend's house or something similar that is equally frivolous and would result in him missing dinner: I don't know how you can blame your brother and not your parents.

No one is forgetting the family is real people, that's a strawman. A kid missing his bed time will only really hurt them, a kid missing dinner unless they have a serious eating disorder will only make them uncomfortable, a kid missing his bed time by any reasonable margin is not a big enough offense to waste 4 hours of third party's time over.

It's not binary, it's not about whether they're real people, it's about the degree that all the real people are effected and all I see here is people defending parents wasting 4 hours of other peoples' time for the pettiest fucking bullshit.

If you, as a parent, knowing had me, a complete stranger, waste over 4 hours of my time, because your kid forgot to take out the trash or is up 20 minutes past his bed time, I would devote my life to making yours a living hell. In ANY other (admittedly contrived) scenario no one would object to that statement.

Imagine if you were stuck somewhere waiting for no joke 30 minutes, with 8 others in the same exact scenario ,because some kid's parent decided that was an acceptable casualty in order to make sure her kid takes out the trash at 6:10 instead of 6:50. How can you even pretend that's reasonable? how can you even pretend that that the position dehumanizing other people is the one that says someone shouldn't do that to 9 strangers?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the main points of parenting teaching your child how to act as an adult? In the real world these problems, especially just household chores, are very rarely about doing things the second you hear about them, it's about working in a deadline, and in the real world your deadline for taking out the trash is not set to a 45 minute period of time.

I do blame the cop if the speed limit isn't reasonable. There's a reason the word speed trap exists and until I see laws on the books preventing the government from using money from traffic violations I won't ever trust a traffic ticket to actually mean someone is at fault. Bit of a conflict of interests.

I facepalmed sooo hard, for obvious reasons. Sometimes life comes a calling and you must take care of your problems. Also using kids as a scapegoat is pretty pathetic, I know plenty of adults who often up and have to leave mid game because of something important. You can't be upset at someone for having priorities and if you do, well you're a part of the problem.

How the hell are kids the scapegoat? The letter is to parents. Also, of course you know adults who have to leave mid game because of something IMPORTANT, and the reason that this letter is towards parents who pull their kids out for bed times and chores is because absolutely no one of sound mind has a big problem with you leaving for something important that can't or at least shouldn't wait.

 

[mike1921]

Let me ask you this? do you enjoy standing in line for 45 minutes while the cashier does her fingers?

That's pretty terrible. It's right up there with having to wait 30-45 minutes before eating dinner because my brother needed to finish his game. Dinner was a family affair at my house, you see.

The amount of hypocrisy in this thread is staggering. We've got folks pointing out that the other people in the game are real people, deserving of respect, while ignoring that the family is also real people, deserving of respect. Getting mad at those who say "it's just a game" while simultaneously saying "it's just dinner", "it's just bedtime", or "it's just chores".

And putting all the onus on the parents, when it's the kid causing the problems. This isn't a letter to the kids, telling them to check with their parents if there are chores they should do before they start. This isn't a letter to LoL players, suggesting they take a moment at the start of the game to remind their teammates to do that. It's like blaming the cops for issuing your friend a speeding ticket instead of, y'know, blaming your friend for speeding.

If you would have dinner if your brother was over a friend's house or something similar that is equally frivolous and would result in him missing dinner: I don't know how you can blame your brother and not your parents.

No one is forgetting the family is real people, that's a strawman. A kid missing his bed time will only really hurt them, a kid missing dinner unless they have a serious eating disorder will only make them uncomfortable, a kid missing his bed time by any reasonable margin is not a big enough offense to waste 4 hours of third party's time over.

It's not binary, it's not about whether they're real people, it's about the degree that all the real people are effected and all I see here is people defending parents wasting 4 hours of other peoples' time for the pettiest fucking bullshit.

If you, as a parent, knowing had me, a complete stranger, waste over 4 hours of my time, because your kid forgot to take out the trash or is up 20 minutes past his bed time, I would devote my life to making yours a living hell. In ANY other (admittedly contrived) scenario no one would object to that statement.

Imagine if you were stuck somewhere waiting for no joke 30 minutes, with 8 others in the same exact scenario ,because some kid's parent decided that was an acceptable casualty in order to make sure her kid takes out the trash at 6:10 instead of 6:50. How can you even pretend that's reasonable? how can you even pretend that that the position dehumanizing other people is the one that says someone shouldn't do that to 9 strangers?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the main points of parenting teaching your child how to act as an adult? In the real world these problems, especially just household chores, are very rarely about doing things the second you hear about them, it's about working in a deadline, and in the real world your deadline for taking out the trash is not set to a 45 minute period of time.

I do blame the cop if the speed limit isn't reasonable. There's a reason the word speed trap exists and until I see laws on the books preventing the government from using money from traffic violations I won't ever trust a traffic ticket to actually mean someone is at fault. Bit of a conflict of interests.

I facepalmed sooo hard, for obvious reasons. Sometimes life comes a calling and you must take care of your problems. Also using kids as a scapegoat is pretty pathetic, I know plenty of adults who often up and have to leave mid game because of something important. You can't be upset at someone for having priorities and if you do, well you're a part of the problem.

How the hell are kids the scapegoat? The letter is to parents. Also, of course you know adults who have to leave mid game because of something IMPORTANT, and the reason that this letter is towards parents who pull their kids out for bed times and chores is because absolutely no one of sound mind has a big problem with you leaving for something important that can't or at least shouldn't wait.

You would devote your life to making someone else's life a living hell because you had a measly four hours of your entire life wasted? Grow up. You sound like an immature child.

@Mods: I fully accept I am in the wrong here and accept my future punishment.

It's not about the four hours it's about the principle of you deciding that my time is so worthless that you'd waste 4 hours of it knowingly for such a petty reason. Although if you think that statement is entirely serious and not entirely hyperbolic I don't know how you survive on the internet. I'd key their car or slash their tires or even punch them, but no in 40 years they won't still be crying every-night talking to the police about how to catch the elusive life destroyer mike1921.

Although I don't know why you'd think disproportionate retribution is a trait more exhibited in children than adults. Adults are the ones who commit murder because they found someone cheating.

 

[Elijin]

It's not about the four hours it's about the principle of you deciding that my time is so worthless that you'd waste 4 hours of it knowingly for such a petty reason. Although if you think that statement is entirely serious and not entirely hyperbolic I don't know how you survive on the internet. I'd key their car or slash their tires or even punch them, but no in 40 years they won't still be crying every-night talking to the police about how to catch the elusive life destroyer mike1921.

Although I don't know why you'd think disproportionate retribution is a trait more exhibited in children than adults. Adults are the ones who commit murder because they found someone cheating.

Ah, so you're the type of person who thinks a petty inconvenience warrants property damage or assault as a response.

That clarifies so much.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Where are people getting 4 hours for a League game? Wasted time is still 30-45 minutes.

I remember being a kid. Heck, I know how I am now, chaining WoT battles effortlessly enough that, even with a reminder from my roommates as the last match ended, there's a non-zero chance I'm entering the queue for the next battle.

So yeah, if the kid has to bail out of a match because their folks say so, so be it. I'm not sure which school of parenting advises "if your child's playing video games when they shouldn't be, let them finish playing." That'd just about never fly with my folks, whether it was playing games alone or with friends.

 

[The White Hunter]

Yep, sounds like the LoL community.

The MOBA community is about the same as most MMO's then, people like to scream and flip out over tiny shit.

 

[mike1921]

It's not about the four hours it's about the principle of you deciding that my time is so worthless that you'd waste 4 hours of it knowingly for such a petty reason. Although if you think that statement is entirely serious and not entirely hyperbolic I don't know how you survive on the internet. I'd key their car or slash their tires or even punch them, but no in 40 years they won't still be crying every-night talking to the police about how to catch the elusive life destroyer mike1921.

Although I don't know why you'd think disproportionate retribution is a trait more exhibited in children than adults. Adults are the ones who commit murder because they found someone cheating.

Ah, so you're the type of person who thinks a petty inconvenience warrants property damage or assault as a response.

That clarifies so much.

It's four and a half fucking hours man, because someone else did something entirely insignificant 30 minutes late. Yes, if you show disrespect to me to that fucking level, as a total fucking stranger: I do not give a shit about your property or a punch that you'll in all likelihood be fine an hour down the line from. Get off your high horse the pope says he'll punch a guy a black eye for talking bad about his mother. And I'm not going to say for absolute certain that you're a hypocrite and wouldn't seriously consider punching said person or keying their car 2 hours in if you thought you could get away with it, but, if I were a betting man..

Where are people getting 4 hours for a League game? Wasted time is still 30-45 minutes.

I remember being a kid. Heck, I know how I am now, chaining WoT battles effortlessly enough that, even with a reminder from my roommates as the last match ended, there's a non-zero chance I'm entering the queue for the next battle.

So yeah, if the kid has to bail out of a match because their folks say so, so be it. I'm not sure which school of parenting advises "if your child's playing video games when they shouldn't be, let them finish playing." That'd just about never fly with my folks, whether it was playing games alone or with friends.

30 minutes times 9 people who aren't you in a game =4.5 hours and to be generous I round it down to 4 and say if you make someone afk you have wasted 4 hours overall.

 

[Drathnoxis]

This reminds me of an old article I read that went through a bunch of reasons for bans in the original Warcraft 3's DotA. It's pretty hilarious how leaving the game for any reason is the utmost offense a person can commit, and it appears that the community that migrated to LoL hasn't changed a whole lot.

Spoiler: Some of my favourites

starcraftnoobs left game with pudge during a 5v5 saying ? g2g my brothers having a baby? and was feeder 1-22 with pudge on 2006-01-29 00:00:00 by LittleFaith

This is the problem with shows such as ?16 and Pregnant? and ?Muppet Babies?. They teach people that it is okay for anyone to have children, even when the laws of nature are in agreement that they should not be.

pimps_r_us (28582) 4-4 weaver leaves @ 39:43 after saying ?my moms bitching me out will i be banne if i leave? on 2007-06-09 13:18:53 by unholydonuts

After word of this incident made its way through the household, pimps_r_us was banned from pimping for the rest of the school year.

p.e.0.n (25154) 0-5 BB says ?plz dont ban im going to church? and leaves @ 29:41 on 2007-04-08 13:41:57 by buddha-nfriends

Why wouldn?t Clan TDA ban ?p.e.o.n.? from Defense of the Ancients games? It appears that he has fallen under the sway of a heathen religion!

hellorc123 (2780) 0-4 tiny said ?g2g going to have breakfast with daddy barely get to see him? and left game@ 33:48 on 2006-03-25 00:00:00 by Hellknight-HKS

hellorc123 and his dad haven?t figured out how to add each other to their friends lists so they never find the same games.

super.paki (27620) SB leaves @46:28 because he thinks opponents maphack on 2007-06-15 06:56:02 by jewified.

I highly doubt that anybody would cheat in an online video game. Super.paki, if that is your real name, I believe that you should be ashamed of yourself for ruining a Defense of the Ancients match.

haodz (28113) Maphacking on 2007-06-15 07:24:33 by jewified

Thirty minutes later, and I swear that you cannot make this stuff up?

TrainofPain. (22191) 0-1 PL says ?cousin just broke his arm i have to take him to the ER? after death and leaves @14:35 on 2007-02-06 19:09:58 by BandofBrothers

Guess you could say he got hit by the pain train, TrainofPain.! Har har! You have to admire the nature of these bans. Imagine if your boss denied you a sick day because of a family emergency. There would only be one question: ?Where would you clock him in the face??

gvsudota says mom is in the hospital and afk?s rest of game on 2006-08-30 22:41:42 by Providence-

Shameful. Americans?s me-first society is so selfish. It is sickening that one person would give up on the lives of several gamers just to save one of his own. America was never greedy before Barack Obama brainwashed everybody with Socialism?.

snorlax13 (28148) SK leaves @08:53. ?guys i g2g im a firefighter and am on call and theres been a fire at a farm house? His previous ban for leaving + this one are quite suspicious. on 2007-06-01 12:41:52 by xtort

Hey, you can?t blame ?snorlax13″ for leaving. He wouldn?t want to be caught sleeping on the job, would he?

sunfire[woz] (24234) 1-3 Void leaves @ 39:03; says ? yeh sry 2 tell u tyis guys but i g2g; fucking thunderstorm started in;dads kicking me off;fraid comps gona fry? on 2007-03-21 19:17:44 by buddha-nfriends

Leaving a Defense of the Ancients game because of the risk that a thunderstorm could fry your computer? That?s a BANNABLE OFFENSE!

There's more and the rest of the article is pretty funny too.
http://www.learntocounter.com/the-dota-banlists-greatest-hits/

 

[Bat Vader]

Let me ask you this? do you enjoy standing in line for 45 minutes while the cashier does her fingers?

That's pretty terrible. It's right up there with having to wait 30-45 minutes before eating dinner because my brother needed to finish his game. Dinner was a family affair at my house, you see.

The amount of hypocrisy in this thread is staggering. We've got folks pointing out that the other people in the game are real people, deserving of respect, while ignoring that the family is also real people, deserving of respect. Getting mad at those who say "it's just a game" while simultaneously saying "it's just dinner", "it's just bedtime", or "it's just chores".

And putting all the onus on the parents, when it's the kid causing the problems. This isn't a letter to the kids, telling them to check with their parents if there are chores they should do before they start. This isn't a letter to LoL players, suggesting they take a moment at the start of the game to remind their teammates to do that. It's like blaming the cops for issuing your friend a speeding ticket instead of, y'know, blaming your friend for speeding.

If you would have dinner if your brother was over a friend's house or something similar that is equally frivolous and would result in him missing dinner: I don't know how you can blame your brother and not your parents.

No one is forgetting the family is real people, that's a strawman. A kid missing his bed time will only really hurt them, a kid missing dinner unless they have a serious eating disorder will only make them uncomfortable, a kid missing his bed time by any reasonable margin is not a big enough offense to waste 4 hours of third party's time over.

It's not binary, it's not about whether they're real people, it's about the degree that all the real people are effected and all I see here is people defending parents wasting 4 hours of other peoples' time for the pettiest fucking bullshit.

If you, as a parent, knowing had me, a complete stranger, waste over 4 hours of my time, because your kid forgot to take out the trash or is up 20 minutes past his bed time, I would devote my life to making yours a living hell. In ANY other (admittedly contrived) scenario no one would object to that statement.

Imagine if you were stuck somewhere waiting for no joke 30 minutes, with 8 others in the same exact scenario ,because some kid's parent decided that was an acceptable casualty in order to make sure her kid takes out the trash at 6:10 instead of 6:50. How can you even pretend that's reasonable? how can you even pretend that that the position dehumanizing other people is the one that says someone shouldn't do that to 9 strangers?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the main points of parenting teaching your child how to act as an adult? In the real world these problems, especially just household chores, are very rarely about doing things the second you hear about them, it's about working in a deadline, and in the real world your deadline for taking out the trash is not set to a 45 minute period of time.

I do blame the cop if the speed limit isn't reasonable. There's a reason the word speed trap exists and until I see laws on the books preventing the government from using money from traffic violations I won't ever trust a traffic ticket to actually mean someone is at fault. Bit of a conflict of interests.

I facepalmed sooo hard, for obvious reasons. Sometimes life comes a calling and you must take care of your problems. Also using kids as a scapegoat is pretty pathetic, I know plenty of adults who often up and have to leave mid game because of something important. You can't be upset at someone for having priorities and if you do, well you're a part of the problem.

How the hell are kids the scapegoat? The letter is to parents. Also, of course you know adults who have to leave mid game because of something IMPORTANT, and the reason that this letter is towards parents who pull their kids out for bed times and chores is because absolutely no one of sound mind has a big problem with you leaving for something important that can't or at least shouldn't wait.

You would devote your life to making someone else's life a living hell because you had a measly four hours of your entire life wasted? Grow up. You sound like an immature child.

@Mods: I fully accept I am in the wrong here and accept my future punishment.

It's not about the four hours it's about the principle of you deciding that my time is so worthless that you'd waste 4 hours of it knowingly for such a petty reason. Although if you think that statement is entirely serious and not entirely hyperbolic I don't know how you survive on the internet. I'd key their car or slash their tires or even punch them, but no in 40 years they won't still be crying every-night talking to the police about how to catch the elusive life destroyer mike1921.

Although I don't know why you'd think disproportionate retribution is a trait more exhibited in children than adults. Adults are the ones who commit murder because they found someone cheating.

Edit: I have better things to do than argue with you about this. if you want to risk going to jail and getting sued all because you feel your time is somehow more important than someone else's that's your business. I couldn't care any less about it.

 

[Elijin]

It's four and a half fucking hours man, because someone else did something entirely insignificant 30 minutes late. Yes, if you show disrespect to me to that fucking level, as a total fucking stranger: I do not give a shit about your property or a punch that you'll in all likelihood be fine an hour down the line from. Get off your high horse the pope says he'll punch a guy a black eye for talking bad about his mother. And I'm not going to say for absolute certain that you're a hypocrite and wouldn't seriously consider punching said person or keying their car 2 hours in if you thought you could get away with it, but, if I were a betting man..

I wish you were a betting man, because I'd gladly take your money. See where I grew up, we were taught violence is pretty much never the right answer. Extend that to being an adult, and having an idea of the cost of things, and I would never even fucking consider keying or slashing tyres. To consider those so flippantly, you must be
1: a kid with no sense of the cost of things,
2: a pure thug, with zero regard for anyone or their things
3: a rich asshole who doesnt understand how big of a cost things like keying cars and slashing tyres are to your average joe.

So I would never destroy people's costly property on purpose ever.
I also wouldnt punch someone in the face for wasting my time, whether it be 30 minutes, 4 hours or 12 hours. I would love to be a fly on the wall when you enter the real world and discover through inconsiderate behaviour and dumb mistakes, strangers and friends and co-workers will waste many hours of your life, in varied sized chunks.

Where are people getting 4 hours for a League game? Wasted time is still 30-45 minutes.

I remember being a kid. Heck, I know how I am now, chaining WoT battles effortlessly enough that, even with a reminder from my roommates as the last match ended, there's a non-zero chance I'm entering the queue for the next battle.

So yeah, if the kid has to bail out of a match because their folks say so, so be it. I'm not sure which school of parenting advises "if your child's playing video games when they shouldn't be, let them finish playing." That'd just about never fly with my folks, whether it was playing games alone or with friends.

The 4 hours figure is the combined lost time of the 9 players. An attempt that the sympathetic to this letter are drumming up to try and inflate their side of this. Its ridiculous, because thats not how time works. You'd think they could pick some public activity and make the comparison. Like say, a public go kart track for 10 people, with 5v5 teams and 45 minute round timers. Only gosh, little timmy's mum says he never had permission to start, and has to go home! What happens now?! Oh right, they call in just little timmy, and the game continues anyway. Because even in real life, people understand that a parent has the final call on what timmy does with his time, and its completely unaffected by what 9 strangers might think of that.

 

[mike1921]

SNIP

Edit: I have better things to do than argue with you about this. if you want to risk going to jail and getting sued all because you feel your time is somehow more important than someone else's that's your business. I couldn't care any less about it.

You're free to stay on topic instead of jumping on everything I say that you disagree with to try and discredit me. Although even when you only write 3 sentences there's a gigantic misrepresentation of my position, I said someone wasted 4.5 hours of my time because for 30 minutes the trash wasn't taken out, that means that the person wasting my time is the person that decided their time is more important than someone else's. Like, jesus fucking christ, 4.5 hours of my time is wasted because of something you could've done in 5 minutes that happened 30 minutes late, and I'M THE ONE who has an inflated view of what my time is worth. Are you serious?

How, in the ever loving fuck, can I be saying my time is more important than yours if I think it's wrong that you waste 9 times more of mine than yours? I can literally think 8 hours of my time is worth 1 hours of yours and it would still be wrong under that system.

It's four and a half fucking hours man, because someone else did something entirely insignificant 30 minutes late. Yes, if you show disrespect to me to that fucking level, as a total fucking stranger: I do not give a shit about your property or a punch that you'll in all likelihood be fine an hour down the line from. Get off your high horse the pope says he'll punch a guy a black eye for talking bad about his mother. And I'm not going to say for absolute certain that you're a hypocrite and wouldn't seriously consider punching said person or keying their car 2 hours in if you thought you could get away with it, but, if I were a betting man..

I wish you were a betting man, because I'd gladly take your money. See where I grew up, we were taught violence is pretty much never the right answer. Extend that to being an adult, and having an idea of the cost of things, and I would never even fucking consider keying or slashing tyres. To consider those so flippantly, you must be
1: a kid with no sense of the cost of things,
2: a pure thug, with zero regard for anyone or their things
3: a rich asshole who doesnt understand how big of a cost things like keying cars and slashing tyres are to your average joe.

So I would never destroy people's costly property on purpose ever.
I also wouldnt punch someone in the face for wasting my time, whether it be 30 minutes, 4 hours or 12 hours. I would love to be a fly on the wall when you enter the real world and discover through inconsiderate behaviour and dumb mistakes, strangers and friends and co-workers will waste many hours of your life, in varied sized chunks.

or:
4:a normal human being.
Don't care where you grew up, in the real world rage conquers all and if you wouldn't do it you'd laugh when someone else did. Sure you'd sit on your high horse for 30 minutes just watching the plebian make themself a fool but at some point it becomes just gross

A mistake is irrelevant, inconsiderate behavior can still be unknowingly. You need to be pretty deliberate in your disrespect for me to seek any sort of retribution. Friends waste my time constantly, but it's not fucking on purpose and again I'm not a stranger. I've had managers waste plenty of my time, and I found it annoying.

1:Nope
2:Nope, I'm a very careful guy and I'm normally the first to volunteer to get shit done because I actually care about other people. It's only when you go beyond the call to be an asshole to me that it changes.
3:No, but why should I care about your finances if you do that sort of shit?


And hey, even if the bet loses doesn't mean it's not a good bet. 2-7 beats Ace-Ace sometimes in poker

The 4 hours figure is the combined lost time of the 9 players. An attempt that the sympathetic to this letter are drumming up to try and inflate their side of this. Its ridiculous, because thats not how time works. You'd think they could pick some public activity and make the comparison. Like say, a public go kart track for 10 people, with 5v5 teams and 45 minute round timers. Only gosh, little timmy's mum says he never had permission to start, and has to go home! What happens now?! Oh right, they call in just little timmy, and the game continues anyway. Because even in real life, people understand that a parent has the final call on what timmy does with his time, and its completely unaffected by what 9 strangers might think of that.

Yes, that is how time works. For some reason we perceive shit differently when it's spread out but any logical weighting of priorities will rate 9 people wasting 30 minutes as roughly the same as 1 wasting 4.5. how can it not be?
Can the match go on reasonably without little Timmy? Anything I ever did involving go karts was basically individualized. If so, who cares? If not: Why is mum taking little timmy out?

Having the final call doesn't mean that it's right and that making it doesn't make you an asshole. Again, what's with the fucking strawmen? You guys all live on farms? If anyone was doubting the supremacy in the parents to make decision the open letter wouldn't be to them it would be to a higher authority, the government. If I find your lawn gnomes annoying and I write a letter to you arguing why you should consider removing them I am not doubting that you have the final call of what to put on your lawn. If I don't agree that it's your call my next step would be to contact the local authorities and the letter would just be a formality to give you an easy way to bypass the problem.

It has nothing to do with what 9 strangers think, it has to do with how they're effected. If you're doing something that negatively effects others without their permission for no good reason, it doesn't matter if they happen to not care it's still not the right thing to do.

 

[COMaestro]

Yes, that is how time works. For some reason we perceive shit differently when it's spread out but any logical weighting of priorities will rate 9 people wasting 30 minutes as roughly the same as 1 wasting 4.5. how can it not be?

Because each person is only "out" 30 minutes. This isn't like building a house, where each person puts in "manhours" so that nine people missing 30 minutes of work time is actually 4.5 hours lost. The game is only going to run the 30-60 minutes no matter how many people are playing. So I'm going to have to disagree with the wasting of 4 hours.

Plus, I disagree with the whole idea that the time was wasted. Sure, the game may not have been as satisfactory as you would have liked, no matter if you are on the team that lost the player or not, but you still played the game, right? People usually play games for fun or escapism, and that should still be able to be had, despite someone dropping out. You may not win the game, but it can be a fun time to just try to survive as long as possible, or to try out new and crazy strategies in a game that you know you have already won/lost due to the loss of the player. How has your time been wasted?

As I have stated before, I have some sympathy for your side of things. I've been in multiplayer games where someone left and my side just got trounced, but I've also been in games where my side had the advantage and we STILL got trounced because the other team was just that good. While it was a bit frustrating, I was still having fun playing the game in both situations, and would never have considered the time wasted.

As for the parents pulling the child out of the game, again as a gamer, I would cut some slack depending on why I want them to sign out. Trash can probably wait, some other things may be able to wait, but as a parent I am going to enforce certain things like dinner and bedtime. Dinner is a family gathering, and no matter that it happens every damn day, it is a time to be together, and the child can at least show his/her parents respect and gratitude by being to dinner on time. Game be damned. Family comes first, and I seriously will not believe you if you argue against that point. The given example that the kid having dinner at a friend's house breaks that gathering holds no water with me, as that would have been something pre-arranged, not suddenly decided upon right when dinner is ready. That would be the same as saying he/she is busy with a game and can't come eat. It's not equivalent at all.

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

I remember back in the day i had similar issues in a warcraft raid, you know what we did? Adults in charge of their own lives only. No kids allowed. Problem solved. Adults only queue anyone?

I hate children......

 

[cdemares]

I leave games aaaallll the time. Hour-long chunks of time can't always be guaranteed. I used to feel terrible about it. Eventually, you realize that feeling bad about that is childish. I never want to leave games, but they are games. Courtesy is for people who have something to offer you, not randoms.

"Deal with it" - Don Mattrick, Ancient Chinese Philosopher and Master of War