Open Letter to Parents of League of Legends' Players

[mike1921]

How is this even a question? I've seen kids afk because their mom is such an inflexible asshole that she couldn't deal with her kid waiting 10 minutes to take out the trash or 5 to get dinner. Why are people defending bad parents like this? Teach your kid to follow inflexible time commitments and follow their word and then kick their ass for making overlapping commitments they can't possibly meet (having a 9pm bed time and starting a 35 minute game at 8:45).

My sympathies are torn.

Realistically children playing games are not allowed to trump their parents preparing dinner and your silly cartoon man in your favourite Warcraft 3 mod-cum-game is nothing more than a mental crossword, put the damn imaginary game down.

On the other hand I play p&p so I appreciate how annoying it is having someone drop out at the last minute or mid way through.

The correct solution is for grown ups playing super cereal games to not play with children. I mean, to put this in perspective we have what is presumably an adult here getting annoyed at parents for taking their kids away for dinner because he wanted to play 'pretend' with them. Even ignoring that this kind of game is a magnet for the socially inept and your kid shouldn't be playing it anyway this is slightly weird.

Yeah lets fuck people over, fuck the randoms, those non exisitant non me or my family people, its not like they are humans too

Dude, I know we're in the Games Are Art HQ and all but it is just a game.

How is "dinner is prepared" inflexible to the point where you'd rather your kid waste 30 minutes of 9 peoples' time than just fucking microwave it? Like, seriously? It's a game of skill, there's nothing weird about an adult playing a child in chess. It's silly to treat games like League as if they're about experiencing the world or playing pretend, they're about mechanics and gamefeel. I know people who were in diamond at 15 (in other words, top 2.5% of players), why would you remove them from the player pool?

It doesn't matter if it's a game, if you wasted my time you wasted my time. If you wanna learn how to respect people you can't be caught up on degree like that.

So make a team and play with them. Hell, that has worked for me in every multiplayer game I've ever played.

Commit to finding players that commit as much as you then, instead of expecting other people (Or their parents) to build their lives around ensuring that you never get a quitter in your video game.

Here's the thing though: You will still get quitters.

Straw man, no one is advocating sweeping changes to peoples' lives in order to minimize things that could possibly make them quit. All anyone is advocating is being reasonable in your reasons for leaving a game, reasonably weighing the time you waste out of other peoples' lives, if your trash will literally explode if your kid doesn't take it out within the next 2 minutes than sure pull him away from the game, but if you're a normal person and the trash could honestly wait till tomorrow than fuck off for 30 minutes.

 

[Kolyarut]

So make a team and play with them. Hell, that has worked for me in every multiplayer game I've ever played.

Commit to finding players that commit as much as you then, instead of expecting other people (Or their parents) to build their lives around ensuring that you never get a quitter in your video game.

Here's the thing though: You will still get quitters.

Sure. Because there are plenty of lousy people who're willing to set lousy examples for their children.

Not asking anyone to "build their lives around" anything, just asking them to honour their commitments and not screw over strangers because of spite or negligence. Apparently that's a lofty, impossible moral standard.

[EDIT: Actually, you know, I'm saying the exact opposite. I'm saying people who want to play LoL should be building it around their lives, rather than starting it and abandoning it because they couldn't plan an hour in advance. I'm expecting someone at the door in the next half hour or so, so right now I'm not playing HotS, because I might have to leave partway through. Later, when I know I'll have the time available, I can do that. Right now, real life comes first.]

 

[the_dramatica]

Yep, sounds like the LoL community.

Their ranking is the ABSOLUTE MOST IMPORTANT THING, guys. So you can't screw it up by leaving a game to spend time with your family, or being bad at the game, or playing a character that they don't like, or playing a character in a sub-optimal configuration.

The League community is just gross.

You gotta understand that a majority of the community has brain disorders and cannot play the game at all. The matches are basically randomly won unless it's 1400 elo or up, and even then it's awful. League forces you to play around 200 matches to even unlock ranked, and that is usually just 18,000-22,000 battle points, not nearly enough to unlock a competitive ranked profile of runes/heroes, so people usually are clawing over eachother with positions which riot doesn't want to fix so that they can sell heroes/ip boosting packs.

Finding a competitive match in league is extremely rare, so if you watch the esport and actually want to win get ready to suffer because nobody cares about pubs.

 

[Mutant1988]

So make a team and play with them. Hell, that has worked for me in every multiplayer game I've ever played.

Commit to finding players that commit as much as you then, instead of expecting other people (Or their parents) to build their lives around ensuring that you never get a quitter in your video game.

Here's the thing though: You will still get quitters.

Sure. Because there are plenty of lousy people who're willing to set lousy examples for their children.

Not asking anyone to "build their lives around" anything, just asking them to honour their commitments and not screw over strangers because of spite or negligence. Apparently that's a lofty, impossible moral standard.

The commitment the player has made to you does not extend to their parents. If you have a problem with a player, fine. But there's plenty of reasons for why players cannot fully commit to a game.

Do you write letters to their parents too?

This specifically call out kids and parents as causing more issue than, you know, people not being able to commit at all times, because shit happens. Hell, they don't even have to quit to ruin "your" game.

Again, play with people you know (Or is there literally no team match making? If so, then it's a terrible game) if you want to ensure that other people's other issues and commitment does not interfere with your entertainment.

Very simple problem, very simple solution.

People should learn how to commit to things, sure. Preferably as soon as possible.

But people should also learn what to do in order to avoid disappointment or frustration (Play with friends) and to have reasonable expectations (Not everyone can/will finish the game).

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

If a game is in progress, do not interrupt it unless it is an emergency

Oh please, this reeks of entitlement. If your mom or dad can interrupt you it's because you're still living under the roof they provide for you. Fucking show some manners to these people, because they owe you nothing.

 

[nuclearday]

To me, it's an online behavior thing. Even if it's online, you're still dealing with real people. How you act, the manner you conduct yourself, matters when dealing with other people. Regardless of whether it's an online or face-to-face interaction. It's all "real life." Just because you're doing it on a computer doesn't make your interactions any less real or meaningful. It's still happening, it's still an action you've taken - it's still a reflection on you.

You can't say "it's just a game," or "it's just a bunch of anonymous people" and then turn around and complain about the lack of civility online - these are not mutually exclusive attitudes.

And parenting is not black and white. It would be much, much easier were that so. Helping your child schedule his time wisely by being aware of the time commitment of the activities you're allowing them to participate in and familiarizing yourself with their past-times is just responsible parenting, simple as that.

That doesn't mean micro-managing or getting into hyperboles - my parenting style isn't limited to either over-bearing micro-managing every fifteen minute block of my child's time or being completely ignorant of how my child spends his time; rather most days I'm trying to find a workable middle ground.

At the end of the day, I read that open letter as more of a request that parents generally have some knowledge of what games their kids are playing. I think most of us would agree that a responsible parent would show an interest in their kids' activities and if the games they are playing with other people come with an implied time commitment, that they at least be aware of that. It seems to me like the problem is many just simply don't - and I would generally say education and knowledge is better than ignorance.

 

[Kolyarut]

The commitment the player has made to you does not extend to their parents. If you have a problem with a player, fine. But there's plenty of reasons for why players cannot fully commit to a game.

Any reason you can't commit to the game is a reason not to start the game in the first place. As I say, there are a million and one other things in the world to do that aren't time sensitive. Just don't start the time sensitive thing if you don't have time.

And a parent who delegates authority to their kid to let them play LoL at any time, without their prior consent, should be prepared to deal with the consequence of that. LoL is not an activity they can jump in and out of, so the parents should either honour the commitments their kid is making or, preferably, do some parenting and manage when the kid is allowed to make these plans.

Do you send letters to their parents too?

No?

This specifically call out kids and parents as causing more issue than, you know, people not being able to commit at all times, because shit happens.

Again, play with people you know (Or is there literally no team match making? If so, then it's a terrible game) if you want to ensure that other people's other issues and commitment does not interfere with your entertainment.

Very simple problem, very simple solution.

As I said in my first post, I have mixed feelings about parents hauling their kids out of games the kid has stealth-started without their parents consent. I think either way the consequence of the kid doing that should be the kid gets their game uninstalled. But the letter's damn right to call out parents who let their kid start then rip them out. The kid knows they made a promise then couldn't keep it - a parent might not, hence, this guy wrote a letter.

Oh please, this reeks of entitlement. If your mom or dad can interrupt you it's because you're still living under the roof they provide for you. Fucking show some manners to these people, because they owe you nothing.

They owe you nothing? Really? I mean, at the very minimum I'd say they owe their kids the level of respect and basic compassion they'd afford a stranger. I'd hope it went a bit beyond that. Jesus.

 

[mike1921]

If a game is in progress, do not interrupt it unless it is an emergency

Oh please, this reeks of entitlement. If your mom or dad can interrupt you it's because you're still living under the roof they provide for you. Fucking show some manners to these people, because they owe you nothing.

This is not about the brat in my game, this is about me, getting fucked because other peoples' parents feel fit to waste my time for nothing. IT's not like the kid's playing solitaire and you interrupted it, that's the point.

So make a team and play with them. Hell, that has worked for me in every multiplayer game I've ever played.

Commit to finding players that commit as much as you then, instead of expecting other people (Or their parents) to build their lives around ensuring that you never get a quitter in your video game.

Here's the thing though: You will still get quitters.

Sure. Because there are plenty of lousy people who're willing to set lousy examples for their children.

Not asking anyone to "build their lives around" anything, just asking them to honour their commitments and not screw over strangers because of spite or negligence. Apparently that's a lofty, impossible moral standard.

The commitment the player has made to you does not extend to their parents.
.

Yes it does, as a parent you are responsible for your kids.

 

[Mutant1988]

Everyone seems to just skip past that but seriously, does the game have no team based matchmaking that allows a player to play with people they know versus strangers?

If not, then I see a massive flaw with the game right there. It alone is a bigger cause of player discontent than anything else.

Because again, people don't need to quit to ruin your entertainment. They can ruin it just fine by being worse. Or not doing what you want. Or by being a jerk. Or whatever. Or they quit, because any number of reasons.

Calling out the parents of kids is crazy, whichever way you look at it.

If someone is to lecture anyone on how they raise their kids, it's not some guy that can't figure out that the only way to guarantee minimal frustration is to play with people you know (On your team, at the very least).

 

[mike1921]

Everyone seems to just skip past that but seriously, does the game have no team based matchmaking that allows a player to play with people they know versus strangers?

If not, then I see a massive flaw with the game right there. It alone is a bigger cause of player discontent than anything else.

Because again, people don't need to quit to ruin your entertainment. They can ruin it just fine by being worse. Or not doing what you want. Or by being a jerk. Or whatever. Or they quit, because any number of reasons.

Calling out the parents of kids is crazy, whichever way you look at it.

It's a 5 man game, I normally play with one buddy in ranked, I shouldn't need to have 5 to know that no one's going to have to leave because they didn't take out the trash. Also, solo/duo queue is in many ways a different game mode than full man teams (solo queue is about you carrying and being a god while team is more about ...teamwork)

Any other way you suggested of ruining my game is not such a massive show of disrespect towards me and other players on my team.

No, calling out the parents is not crazy. If the kid started something and you interrupted him to make him leave the game , and he didn't know that was going to happen prior to the game starting, than that is entirely the parents' fault because they're the ones that decided that my time doesn't mean shit and you're teaching your kid not to follow through on commitments.

Everyone that plays league knows that you don't get randoms if you have a full team dude, the reason everyone skips past it is because it's irrelevant and inconvenient.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

God, that letter reeks of self-entitled butthurt. If you want to play without people dropping from your team, meet enough people to start a LOL team. That is the only way you're going to assure you have a team where nobody is going to drop.

 

[RidleyValiant]

Possibly one of the most interesting discussions I've ever seen on the Escapist in my time lurking in my dark corner.

For me it boils down to two things:

A lack of communication.
A lack of understanding.

When growing up with my undoubtedly unhealthy gaming habit I had to tell my parents what I was planning on doing, the games I was playing, and they in turn would tell me when to expect things like dinner, and the other chores I was expected to do. If I couldn't manage my time then there would be heavy consequences on my part. It is that simple, sure the unexpected can happen, and if it does fair enough, deal with it. But we're talking about things like dinner. It's amazing how well talking to people works.

So that brings me to point two, understanding.

Games are not the anti-social getaway that they used to be, that is simple truth, multi-player games are some of the most popular in the world, when you drag someone out of a game there is the potential for pissing people off. Is it difficult for parents to learn that their child plays league of legends and that a league of legends game takes at an estimate 30 to 60 minutes? Not really. Make sure they don't start if they don't have time, if they have started try and amend your plans to match the commitments that your children have made.

There is no perfect fix nor really any right or wrong when it comes down to this, just the lesson on the part of all the players, the parents to be considerate of other people.

Back to lurking, enjoy arguing folks.

 

[Kolyarut]

Everyone seems to just skip past that but seriously, does the game have no team based matchmaking that allows a player to play with people they know versus strangers?

Critiquing the matchmaking is talking around the problem, it doesn't really fix anything. If the kid is forced to quit partway through a match they're still spoiling it for whatever team they're on. The onus shouldn't have to be on everyone else in the world to mitigate the risk of people spoiling things, it should be for people to stop spoiling things. You're blaming the victims not the perpetrators.

(I really hesitate to use the phrase "victim" in this context, because yeah, "you spoiled my game" isn't exactly getting shot or mugged on the disaster Richter scale, but it is a negative event that wasn't their fault)

Because again, people don't need to quit to ruin your entertainment. They can ruin it just fine by being worse. Or not doing what you want. Or by being a jerk. Or whatever. Or they quit, because any number of reasons.

Calling out the parents of kids is crazy, whichever way you look at it.

Oh, sure, skill mismatch is a regular source of ill will, flaming and unhappiness. Totally agree. Parents don't interact with that, though. A parent can't walk up mid game and make their kid less skilled.

A parent can pull their kid from the game, though, and if they choose to do that I don't see why it's crazy to call them on it.

A parent who doesn't want to let their kid make these commitments or isn't willing to let them honour their obligations has an easy solution - they don't let their kid play League of Legends. They kid can do anything else at all instead.

 

[ForumSafari]

It doesn't matter if it's a game, if you wasted my time you wasted my time. If you wanna learn how to respect people you can't be caught up on degree like that.

If you're playing serious games with children (which in itself weird) then you're gambling on them not having a schedule to stick to. If someone plays a game and ignores an appointment that's their fault, not the person with whom they have an appointment. Telling people to let their kids play with you rather than eat dinner because this computer game is super important is fucking weak.

The parents also didn't waste your time, the kid did.

There's also an argument that if you take time to write an "open letter" (the most pussy-assed passive aggressive form of communication imaginable) to the parents of children that run home for dinner telling them that it's more important that their kids play games with you online then your time is almost by definition unwasteable.

It's a game of skill, there's nothing weird about an adult playing a child in chess.

The reason this is weird is that adults are treating children like peers and expecting their parents to compromise their routine , it's also weird because they're blaming their parents for making them eat dinner at a routine time rather than play games with strangers online. Finally it's weird because these people are so dumb that they seriously don't see it coming when kids fuck up their scheduling and run home for dinner. If you are seriously pissed off when children behave like children then you shouldn't be playing with children.

Also if you want to have a serious tournament set it up as a serious tournament, you know, with entry and venues and proper matchmaking and flexibility for drops. This is like the difference between dropping 5 seconds into a PTQ match in M:TG and shutting down Cockatrice. Or to rephrase; the difference between a premier league match and a kickabout in the park.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Oh please, this reeks of entitlement. If your mom or dad can interrupt you it's because you're still living under the roof they provide for you. Fucking show some manners to these people, because they owe you nothing.

They owe you nothing? Really? I mean, at the very minimum I'd say they owe their kids the level of respect and basic compassion they'd afford a stranger. I'd hope it went a bit beyond that. Jesus.

They owe their kids the same level of respect their kids aren't giving them (when they ***** about dinner time coming too early) or the other players (when they join a game they know they many not be able to finish).

 

[Mutant1988]

Calling out the parents of kids is crazy, whichever way you look at it.

It's a 5 man game, I normally play with one buddy in ranked, I shouldn't need to have 5 to know that no one's going to have to leave because they didn't take out the trash. [/quote]

No. You do need to have 5 people, that you know, for you to KNOW that nothing will interfere with your game.

That is a 100% necessary measure to ensure 100%, that no kid or any other kind of likely quitter can interfere with your game in any way.

Also, playing with kids or strangers of any kind - Have reasonable expectations. If they need to run off because there's a life outside of video games, then tough break. Other commitments can very well weigh more than playing with strangers.

Play with people you know, if you want to guarantee your entertainment. It's like a mantra by this point.

 

[Dantos]

I have always tried to manage my time when playing games, to never start a dungeon run or pvp match when I didnt think that I either had time or desire to complete it, mainly because I dont want to be unfair to the other people.

I do not have children, but if/when I do, I will try to teach those thing to my kids, if they ever get into gaming.

That being said, I feel, like my parents, when its time to turn off the computer its time to turn off the computer. Real life MUST always come first. If you happen to get caught in the teaching of those lessons, what can I say, you play with randoms, you get random results, its how Ive always viewed pugging in every game ive played.

 

[Kolyarut]

Oh please, this reeks of entitlement. If your mom or dad can interrupt you it's because you're still living under the roof they provide for you. Fucking show some manners to these people, because they owe you nothing.

They owe you nothing? Really? I mean, at the very minimum I'd say they owe their kids the level of respect and basic compassion they'd afford a stranger. I'd hope it went a bit beyond that. Jesus.

They owe their kids the same level of respect their kids aren't giving them (when they ***** about dinner time coming too early) or the other players (when they join a game they know they many not be able to finish).

Hey, I totally agree a kid who joins a game they know they may not be able to finish is in the wrong. I'm just saying the solution is to punish the kid, not the kid and 9 strangers. That's overstepping your remit.

If you're playing serious games with children (which in itself weird) then you're gambling on them not having a schedule to stick to. If someone plays a game and ignores an appointment that's their fault, not the person with whom they have an appointment. Telling people to let their kids play with you rather than eat dinner because this computer game is super important is fucking weak.

The parents also didn't waste your time, the kid did.

Random queues are random. If kids are queueing, people are going to be paired with kids. That's not weird. And yes, you're gambling on people following the rules and having enough time to play the game out, but nobody should be playing if they don't have the time, or they don't know if they have the time. If you queue, you're committing the time. It's not "fucking weak" to honour that. (also, dude, you are being super aggressive).

If the parent hauls the kid out before the end, then the parent did waste everyone's time. There are alternative ways to discipline the kid.

The reason this is weird is that adults are treating children like peers and expecting their parents to compromise their routine , it's also weird because they're blaming their parents for making them eat dinner at a routine time rather than play games with strangers online. Finally it's weird because these people are so dumb that they seriously don't see it coming when kids fuck up their scheduling and run home for dinner. If you are seriously pissed off when children behave like children then you shouldn't be playing with children.

I don't expect parents to compromise their routine in the slightest. If there's no time for the kid to play LoL now, then the parent just shouldn't be allowing the kid to play LoL now. If the parents eat at a routine time but the kid keeps queueing for new games in at that time anyway, then that kid should have their LoL taken away.

But no one has the choice of whether to play with kids in this context or not. Don't blame people for joining a random queue and getting grouped with random people.

the difference between a premier league match and a kickabout in the park.

There's a kickabout, and there's a match. A spontaneous kickabout has no scheduled end point, it ends when it stops being fun or when people have to go. But a proper match should be played until the end, and you shouldn't pull your kids out before that end.

LoL is not an undefined kickabout. LoL is a friendly match. Just because it's not being played at Championship level doesn't mean there's not a proper way to play it.

 

[Me55enger]

I'm a reasonably hardcore gamer, for a given value of hardcore. I'm also a DOTA2 player, for a given value of player.

I like the letter, and Penny Arcade are a force people listen to. But the letter is at the very least polite, whilst Penny Arcade is just, well, tiring. I don't know if Penny Arcade are disagreeing with the letter or satirizing a parent's response and frankly it doesn't matter.

It's a matter of mismatched cultural priorities spanning the analogue and digital generations. You could say that video games are indeed ruining traditional family events such as mealtime and in doing so disrupts a routine the child needs and you would be right.

But I think we're on the edge of this cliff looking into the valley of the next generation's list of cultural priorities, and some things will change in value. Video Games are growing upwards and outwards, and Mobas are at the leading edge of the eSports blade. As an example: the US DOTA 2 team just won the DAC League, winning $1.3million. Their Mid player is 15. Fifteen.

Look at it through any colour glass you want, that kid has a talent. It's just a case of convincing an entire child-producing generation that it is a talent.

 

[flying_whimsy]

At the end of the day, I read that open letter as more of a request that parents generally have some knowledge of what games their kids are playing. I think most of us would agree that a responsible parent would show an interest in their kids' activities and if the games they are playing with other people come with an implied time commitment, that they at least be aware of that. It seems to me like the problem is many just simply don't - and I would generally say education and knowledge is better than ignorance.

That is a much better way to phrase the request. It's also probably the most well-reasoned thing I've ever heard in a discussion involving MOBAs.

OT: The thread title made me think it was someone appealing to parents to crack down on the gutter mouthing and just generally shitty nature of dialogue that goes on in these games or maybe a message to them to educated their kids on why swatting is a horrendous thing. I'm disaapointed that it wasn't, and that I haven't seen the discussion swing that way. I feel like there are bigger issues facing the moba community than people dropping matches because their parents tell them to.