Opinions on Whale Wars?

[Omgsarge]

Well its many reasons.

1. Whaling employs people. If it dies, thats a whole lot of unemployed workers. Something Japan doesn't want. Even down sizing is practically off the table, Japan's Economy is too weak right now to take a hit like that. The Economy has been in a death spiral since the 1990s. Japan goes down, and you are looking at possible shit storms in the Asian markets. Something that could play hell on stock markets around the world.

2. They only do research because the UN told them to. If the UN didn't step in, Japan would still be hunting common Minke whales instead of "researching" endangered ones.

3. The only reason this is an issue at all is because its all filled with rhetoric and general misconceptions. Usually brought on by media.

4. There IS demand, its just that whale meat is banned everywhere. Any place outside Japan that even tries to SELL whale meat gets shut down immediately. The UN refuses to allow whale meat to be sent anywhere. The reason why they don't pass it out to starving areas like Africa is beyond me, usually stupidity and political dogma.

whaling is only a problem because people adhere to political dogma rather than think of it in a utilitarian sense.

They rather treat political parties like religions and adhere to political "bibles" than think outside the box. Both sides do this, so this is the only reason whaling is even an issue.

Don't know about your 4th point. In my time in Norway, I saw a restaurant that proudly sells whale meat with potatoes so I don't know if its banned everywhere. I think export of whale meat is just frowned upon. Seems like Norway, Iceland and Japan still commonly trade whale meat between each other.

Also, whale meat is often heavily contaminated with toxins since they are so far down the food chain. So, its not really the greatest of meat and whale oil, the main reason whales were hunted, does not really have a place in today's global economy anymore. Seems to me the only reason the Japanese whaling industry still actually exists is clinging to a dying tradition and heavy subsidies from the government. Japan would be wise to invest that money into the creation of jobs with a future and not into an industry that can't maintain itself, if its really about employment.
http://www.wdcs.org/submissions_bin/economics_whaling_report.pdf

 

[Haukur Isleifsson]

I think whales should be hunted in a restricted and self-sustainable manner. Some types of whales are endangered and should not be hunted others are not and should be. I don't know which whales the Japanese are hunting so I can't comment on the morality of the actions being taken against them.

Also...

We must recognize that there are other factors that whaling that have profound affects on the number of whales. Availability of food for the whales and pollution both factoring in quite heavily. So So I think that people that are truly concerned about the well-being of whales have other more legitimate, and perhaps more moral, ways of propagating it.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Would you care to list out their results?

What results?

They have reduced [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17312460] the whalers intake.

Long-term result? No. Soon the japanese will find a way to fight back and the Whale Idiots won't be able to do jack about it.

Says you. I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[juyunseen]

I used to watch the show (seasons 2 and 3) and while after that point I started to dislike their methods, I can't say I disagree with them being there since they are the only ones doing anything.
They have been charged (and jailed on some occasions), and despite totally being the self ritous pricks that you say they are, there is proof that they have made a dent into the illegal whaling operations.
They're assholes, yes, but at least they've gotten some results (at the expense of any credibility they used to have)

 

[White Lightning]

Goddamnit, with a thread titled "Whale Wars" I thought this was going to be some badass Whale on Whale action, but NOOOOOOOOOOOO just a bunch of stupid hippies.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Paul Watson is well-intentioned, but terribly misguided, and honestly, he's a bit of an attention whore. There's fostering sustainability and responsible industry, and then there's eco-terrorism, which can and does endanger human lives.

But, of course, when you've got hot Discovery Channel money pouring in, who honestly cares?

I'm seriously waiting for the day when someone in Tokyo flips a table and decides to take the fight not to Watson, not to Greenpeace or any decent, sedate environmental defence group, but to Discovery itself. They're enabling illegal and reckless behaviour for the sake of audience appeal and because it's righteous and stuff. Dur, people like righteous stuff on TV, it's good entertainment, so money!

That's really no excuse. Someone in Discovery Channel's upper management needs to be the bigger man and recognize that while whaling is bad, reckless endangerment is also something that needs to be condemned. There has to be a sedate way to get the Japanese whalers to lower their quotas without bombarding their decks with water cannons or ramming their ships.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Paul Watson is well-intentioned, but terribly misguided, and honestly, he's a bit of an attention whore. There's fostering sustainability and responsible industry, and then there's eco-terrorism, which can and does endanger human lives.

But, of course, when you've got hot Discovery Channel money pouring in, who honestly cares?

I'm seriously waiting for the day when someone in Tokyo flips a table and decides to take the fight not to Watson, not to Greenpeace or any decent, sedate environmental defence group, but to Discovery itself. They're enabling illegal and reckless behaviour for the sake of audience appeal and because it's righteous and stuff. Dur, people like righteous stuff on TV, it's good entertainment, so money!

That's really no excuse. Someone in Discovery Channel's upper management needs to be the bigger man and recognize that while whaling is bad, reckless endangerment is also something that needs to be condemned. There has to be a sedate way to get the Japanese whalers to lower their quotas without bombarding their decks with water cannons or ramming their ships.

Technically, the show was proposed by Animal Planet. Discovery bought airing rights, but they weren't the ones responsible for sending the camera crews.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

Its a lesser of two evils kinda thing isnt it.

On one hand we have the Whalers who hunt an already endangered species.

On the other hand we have a twat called Paul Watson trying desperately to be some kind of sea vigilante.

He's not the hero the whales deserve, but the one it needs. A wet protector. A fishy watchman.
A whale Knight.

 

[kasperbbs]

I'm pretty sure that they should be locked up for this. I don't support whaling, but i don't think that endangering the lives of people who are just trying to make a living for a shitty TV show is ok. South park episode about whale wars pretty much sums up my opinion of them, but i have to confess that i haven't actually seen a single episode of it and don't plan to anytime soon.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Self-snip!

Technically, the show was proposed by Animal Planet. Discovery bought airing rights, but they weren't the ones responsible for sending the camera crews.

My point still stands, then. Animal Planet really should do something about it in a more legal manner. Just sitting there because this guy's all pro-whales and because it's a good show is really hypocritical. I don't care how Japanese whalers are overdoing it if the only response they managed to support and endorse involves a glory hog who endangers other human beings recklessly.

There has to be a way to solve the bigger issue of whaling in a courtroom.

 

[Loonyyy]

Its a lesser of two evils kinda thing isnt it.

On one hand we have the Whalers who hunt an already endangered species.

On the other hand we have a twat called Paul Watson trying desperately to be some kind of sea vigilante.

He's not the hero the whales deserve, but the one it needs. A wet protector. A fishy watchman.
A whale Knight.

Made my night.

Sure, they're attention-seeking, and the incident where they boarded a whaling ship and then called it "Terrorism" when they were detained for doing so was stupid hyperbole. That said, I have to think that chucking stink bombs at scumbags who'd butcher whales is pretty fucking awesome. I'd pay for the chance to do that. Not particularly effective-but awesome.

The sailor in me doesn't like the idea of fucking with people's ships, but at the same time, you can't keep butchering endangered species in such a spectacularly stupid fashion and expect to get away with it. We've tried legislating against it, and they call it research and continue. It's BS. For comparison: The Aurora Australis, an Australian research vessel, had machine guns mounted for use on illegal fishing boats. Supposedly to take out the motor. Whether they can avoid hurting people using that I'll leave up to you. But that's what the government is willing to endorse. Recklessly driving boats and throwing stink bombs really doesn't compare in my mind.

 

[direkiller]

Paul Watson is well-intentioned, but terribly misguided, and honestly, he's a bit of an attention whore. There's fostering sustainability and responsible industry, and then there's eco-terrorism, which can and does endanger human lives.

But, of course, when you've got hot Discovery Channel money pouring in, who honestly cares?

I'm seriously waiting for the day when someone in Tokyo flips a table and decides to take the fight not to Watson, not to Greenpeace or any decent, sedate environmental defence group, but to Discovery itself. They're enabling illegal and reckless behaviour for the sake of audience appeal and because it's righteous and stuff. Dur, people like righteous stuff on TV, it's good entertainment, so money!

That's really no excuse. Someone in Discovery Channel's upper management needs to be the bigger man and recognize that while whaling is bad, reckless endangerment is also something that needs to be condemned. There has to be a sedate way to get the Japanese whalers to lower their quotas without bombarding their decks with water cannons or ramming their ships.

Technically, the show was proposed by Animal Planet. Discovery bought airing rights, but they weren't the ones responsible for sending the camera crews.

animal planet is owned by Discovery Communication
They also own TLC & Military channel(along with all the Discovery channles)

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

Its a lesser of two evils kinda thing isnt it.

On one hand we have the Whalers who hunt an already endangered species.

On the other hand we have a twat called Paul Watson trying desperately to be some kind of sea vigilante.

He's not the hero the whales deserve, but the one it needs. A wet protector. A fishy watchman.
A whale Knight.

Made my night.

Sure, they're attention-seeking, and the incident where they boarded a whaling ship and then called it "Terrorism" when they were detained for doing so was stupid hyperbole. That said, I have to think that chucking stink bombs at scumbags who'd butcher whales is pretty fucking awesome. I'd pay for the chance to do that. Not particularly effective-but awesome.

The sailor in me doesn't like the idea of fucking with people's ships, but at the same time, you can't keep butchering endangered species in such a spectacularly stupid fashion and expect to get away with it. We've tried legislating against it, and they call it research and continue. It's BS. For comparison: The Aurora Australis, an Australian research vessel, had machine guns mounted for use on illegal fishing boats. Supposedly to take out the motor. Whether they can avoid hurting people using that I'll leave up to you. But that's what the government is willing to endorse. Recklessly driving boats and throwing stink bombs really doesn't compare in my mind.

Ah, the ever convenient terrorist label? That word's getting bandied around by so many different groups of people it's lost all meaning. I'm torn about this issue. I kind of agree with you, because endangering lives is just unnacceptable, but on the other, whaling is insanely cruel, largely due to their method of killing the whales. It's a long, horrible proccess through most of which the whale is alive. I've been sort of following the whaling issue for a while, and everything I've seen leads me to at least understand why the extremism has popped up. I don't condone it, but people have been peacefully protesting whaling since like, the 60's and very little has changed. So yeah, I'm torn between supporting the incident and feeling these people needed to be taken to court.

 

[rcs619]

In my completely uninformed opinion based solely on youtube clips of the series, I have to side with the whalers. I may not agree with excessive whaling, but at least they don't fucking ram their ships into other vessels to make a point.

It just boggles my mind that these assholes are able to get away with this shit and haven't been charged. But that's just my opinion. What do you think about these 'save the whales' activists and their war against the Japanese whaling industry?

Edit: found a better video to show what I mean about the Sea Shepherd intentionally ramming japanese whaling vessels.

Well, to be fair, the guy in charge *did* get kicked out of Greenpeace for being too aggressive and crazy. That should tell you something right there. I believe the only reason he started is own thing is because none of the other environmental groups want to touch him with a 10ft pole.

As to the issue itself... it's kind of a complex issue. On the one hand, the Japanese *are* completely within international law, and only kill a specific number of whales. They aren't actually doing anything illegal. On the other hand, it *does* seem like they are exploiting the 'scientific research' loophole simply to engage in whaling at this point and while they aren't in violation of any laws, they do seem to be interpreting the intention of said laws fairly loosely.

Should international whaling laws possibly have another look taken at them and maybe be altered to be a little more reasonable and less exploitable? I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had there.

You know what isn't going to bring about a legitimate discussion though? The asshats aboard the Sea Shepherd and its sister ships. Ramming boats, maintaining dangerously unsafe distances to intentionally block another ship's movement, and even sneaking onto Japanese ships to... i don't even know what the hell they're trying to do other than get caught and make a scene. Not to mention their embellishments about getting "shot" at, and getting "beaten" by the Japanese. It just makes them, and anyone who might agree with at least the basic premise of their complaints look like idiots.

All they do is go around and play pirates and pretend like they are doing something other than setting their own cause back years.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Paul Watson is well-intentioned, but terribly misguided, and honestly, he's a bit of an attention whore. There's fostering sustainability and responsible industry, and then there's eco-terrorism, which can and does endanger human lives.

But, of course, when you've got hot Discovery Channel money pouring in, who honestly cares?

I'm seriously waiting for the day when someone in Tokyo flips a table and decides to take the fight not to Watson, not to Greenpeace or any decent, sedate environmental defence group, but to Discovery itself. They're enabling illegal and reckless behaviour for the sake of audience appeal and because it's righteous and stuff. Dur, people like righteous stuff on TV, it's good entertainment, so money!

That's really no excuse. Someone in Discovery Channel's upper management needs to be the bigger man and recognize that while whaling is bad, reckless endangerment is also something that needs to be condemned. There has to be a sedate way to get the Japanese whalers to lower their quotas without bombarding their decks with water cannons or ramming their ships.

Technically, the show was proposed by Animal Planet. Discovery bought airing rights, but they weren't the ones responsible for sending the camera crews.

animal planet is owned by Discovery Communication
They also own TLC & Military channel(along with all the Discovery channles)

I stand corrected. What he originally said, then.

 

[dogenzakaminion]

I'm Norwegian, so I have to be pro-whaling. I am tho, basically because most people who are anti-whaling have no idea what it is about. As long as there are rules (which there are) to prevent excessive whaling and to protect species extinction. Japan does have a little less stringent system, but still.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I'm Norwegian, so I have to be pro-whaling. I am tho, basically because most people who are anti-whaling have no idea what it is about. As long as there are rules (which there are) to prevent excessive whaling and to protect species extinction. Japan does have a little less stringent system, but still.

Didn't the Norwegian Navy take a more militant stance against the Sea Shepherds? I recall seeing a video where a Norwegian patrol ship crossed the T against their ship and forced them off at cannon point.

EDIT. Found it.

 

[direkiller]

The Japanese whalers are as bad, they deliberately sank the Sea Shepard ship the Ady Gil.

Ships that big have big blind spots(when they are that close the helmsmen cannot see the entirety of that craft)
The fault of that accident is entirely on the smaller craft. Larger ships with a less of an ability to change direction or slow down always have the right away.


from the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea


18. Responsibilities between vessels
Except in narrow channels, traffic separation schemes, and when overtaking (i.e., rules 9, 10, and 13)
A power-driven vessel must give way to:
a vessel not under command;
a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver (this may include vessels towing one another[9]);
a vessel engaged in fishing;
a sailing vessel.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

The Japanese whalers are as bad, they deliberately sank the Sea Shepard ship the Ady Gil.

Ships that big have big blind spots(when they are that close the helmsmen cannot see the entirety of that craft)
The fault of that accident is entirely on the smaller craft. Larger ships with a less of an ability to change direction or slow down always have the right away.


from the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea


18. Responsibilities between vessels
Except in narrow channels, traffic separation schemes, and when overtaking (i.e., rules 9, 10, and 13)
A power-driven vessel must give way to:
a vessel not under command;
a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver (this may include vessels towing one another[9]);
a vessel engaged in fishing;
a sailing vessel.

Also, without going into international rules regarding seafaring ships, the batboat was doing nothing to move out of the way. They were sitting there, intentionally getting way too close to the ship.

 

[jklinders]

I'm Norwegian, so I have to be pro-whaling. I am tho, basically because most people who are anti-whaling have no idea what it is about. As long as there are rules (which there are) to prevent excessive whaling and to protect species extinction. Japan does have a little less stringent system, but still.

Didn't the Norwegian Navy take a more militant stance against the Sea Shepherds? I recall seeing a video where a Norwegian patrol ship crossed the T against their ship and forced them off at cannon point.

I am pretty sure the Norwegians have a bit more leeway on what to do with their military than Japan does. I might be wrong but I believe to this day Japan's military is on a strictly for defense only policy courtesy of losing a little war against the US and that most assuredly does not include threatening other ships thousands of miles from Japan's territory.