Origin: Exposing the False Dichotomy Between Two Multibillion Dollar Companies
- Thread starter JambalayaBob
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Competition is good. I don't use Origin and probably wont for a while to come but I'm glad it's out there just as I'm glad there are so many other digital distribution services out there whether they be Impulse, GOG, Direct2Drive, GamersGate and so on. Competition is what drives the industry forward and forces each individual company to try and excel, to one-up their competition.
Only thing that annoys me is the sheer volume of passwords and the like you've got to remember because of it all.
Only thing that annoys me is the sheer volume of passwords and the like you've got to remember because of it all.
Sounds like bull to me. EA have stated multiple times that the clause regarding the 2 years is only there in case they are forced to stop providing a certain game altogether. (Such as when they no longer own the license to publish a certain game.) They do not remove access for individual users 2 years after their purchase.RicoGrey said:
Me? I purchased Mirror's Edge on March 5, 2009. That's over two years and seven months ago. Can you guess what I'm doing right now? Installing it from Origin. Yeah.
Quite simply here is how it breaks down.
Valve: We will take your information with your permission, and only this specific kind of information with no way to indentify you.
E.A.: We will take your information, while we will not identify you we will take whatever we want.
Valve: We will try our best to make up for it.
E.A.: We will do what ever the hell we want with it outside of selling it because we do not care about you, only your wallet.
A hyperbole yes but not lacking in truth.
Valve still cares more about your wallet than you but they still put genuinely emotionally invested effort into giving you the best experience possible.
Valve: We will take your information with your permission, and only this specific kind of information with no way to indentify you.
E.A.: We will take your information, while we will not identify you we will take whatever we want.
Valve: We will try our best to make up for it.
E.A.: We will do what ever the hell we want with it outside of selling it because we do not care about you, only your wallet.
A hyperbole yes but not lacking in truth.
Valve still cares more about your wallet than you but they still put genuinely emotionally invested effort into giving you the best experience possible.
I've studied Socialist Russia, I know my capitalism/socialism pros and cons, and I can remember most of the plot of Animal Farm. So I'm going to take a second to try and apply some of that to this issue.
Valve, through Steam, are basically the ruling family in the digital distribution market. Sure, they have all the money and nobody else has any, but they do make concessions to the working classes now and again (sales). The reason they got overthrown was because Lenin had better support than the Czars, and since everyone else seems to be totally fine with their games on Steam, I doubt EA and everyone else interested in that path could pick up as much momentum between them as the Socialist movement did, because, as you've seen, everyone loves Valve.
[speculation]
And even if Steam was overthrown, what then? Another company will come along and set up their own monopoly, most likely EA, and some of us will start wishing for the days when we wouldn't get banned/shipped off to the gulags on a whim, had the odd sale of a game we really, really wanted and we could still hope that Episode 3 wouldn't go the way of Starcraft Ghost, or at best Duke Nukem Forever. [/speculation]
Just my two cents. Also, I think that's the longest metaphor I ever sustained.
Valve, through Steam, are basically the ruling family in the digital distribution market. Sure, they have all the money and nobody else has any, but they do make concessions to the working classes now and again (sales). The reason they got overthrown was because Lenin had better support than the Czars, and since everyone else seems to be totally fine with their games on Steam, I doubt EA and everyone else interested in that path could pick up as much momentum between them as the Socialist movement did, because, as you've seen, everyone loves Valve.
[speculation]
And even if Steam was overthrown, what then? Another company will come along and set up their own monopoly, most likely EA, and some of us will start wishing for the days when we wouldn't get banned/shipped off to the gulags on a whim, had the odd sale of a game we really, really wanted and we could still hope that Episode 3 wouldn't go the way of Starcraft Ghost, or at best Duke Nukem Forever. [/speculation]
Just my two cents. Also, I think that's the longest metaphor I ever sustained.
That's because EA has a long history of abusing our trust with terrible games (mostly, there are some diamonds in the rough though), and they are forcing gamers who are just used to and more comfortable with steam to use their poorly designed service to play their games.
Plus, and this is a big one: EA PULLED some of it's titles from Steam.
On the other hand you have steam, who's made it so I can own a large number (I just barely got a gaming pc and already I have 40+ games from steam for the following reason) of great games at insane discounts.
Where as EA doesn't want to cut a discount on anything, they just want my money. Which is why I've only purchased 2 games from them, which I was forced to do or I would have done it through Steam. That I'm being forced alone is a mark against EA, I should get to choose their service, and that should be because of discounts and extras they offer, not because its the only place I can get BF3.
Plus, there are a ton of games under 10 dollars on steam every day, and a ton of free ones, INCLUDING TF2!!! Where as EA has given me for for free... what... exactly?
The simple fact is this: Steam is like the the Mom & Pop shop of gaming, and they to this day have never screwed us over. EA is the Wal-Mart of gaming, and they fuck us every time they get the chance, and they haven't done anything to change that.
And frankly, as you're having such a hard time seeing the obvious nature of things, I might just have to question if you're not running around with the blindfold of fanboy-dom over your eyes.
There's nothing wrong with questioning your love of something, maybe you should reexamine how EA has treated you over the years, as fanboys are often like abused wives, hurt inside, and scared, but wanting to be free. I mean, we can help you get away from that abusive megacorp, that's all I'm saying.
Plus, and this is a big one: EA PULLED some of it's titles from Steam.
On the other hand you have steam, who's made it so I can own a large number (I just barely got a gaming pc and already I have 40+ games from steam for the following reason) of great games at insane discounts.
Where as EA doesn't want to cut a discount on anything, they just want my money. Which is why I've only purchased 2 games from them, which I was forced to do or I would have done it through Steam. That I'm being forced alone is a mark against EA, I should get to choose their service, and that should be because of discounts and extras they offer, not because its the only place I can get BF3.
Plus, there are a ton of games under 10 dollars on steam every day, and a ton of free ones, INCLUDING TF2!!! Where as EA has given me for for free... what... exactly?
The simple fact is this: Steam is like the the Mom & Pop shop of gaming, and they to this day have never screwed us over. EA is the Wal-Mart of gaming, and they fuck us every time they get the chance, and they haven't done anything to change that.
And frankly, as you're having such a hard time seeing the obvious nature of things, I might just have to question if you're not running around with the blindfold of fanboy-dom over your eyes.
There's nothing wrong with questioning your love of something, maybe you should reexamine how EA has treated you over the years, as fanboys are often like abused wives, hurt inside, and scared, but wanting to be free. I mean, we can help you get away from that abusive megacorp, that's all I'm saying.
RicoGrey said:
Wow dude, that is messed up. Like law suit messed up. How can they even get away with that?
Example?Zachary Amaranth said:Monopolies usually put on a friendly face before they eat you.JambalayaBob said:
Because I can't think of a single time a company became a Monopoly and people were like "we love them" before it happened.
It's popular on the escapist. Every week you see a person doing a "Does anyone else hate Avatar?" or "Does anyone else think Modern Warfare is shit?"ultimateownage said:
Or
"Does anyone else hate valve?"
Etc, etc. Basically people just take something popular and throw a criticism in front of it.
I agree with literally EVERYTHING else you said, but I have to draw some attention to two important falsehoods here:AnotherAvatar said:
First, Valve is NOT the Mom & Pop shop. They're the huge, multimillion-dollar shopping center that keeps its aisles clean and well-lit, charges less for some items to build good will in their consumer base, and hands out coupons like candy, but that doesn't change the fact that they're a huge, monolithic entity that bulk buys just like Walmart. Walmart's a bit bigger because it treats its employees like crap and can thus afford to lower their profit margins a bit and still make money, but they're still jealous of how nice the other store is.
Second, look at what he's saying about EA, and then at what you're saying about Steam. The arguments are identical. (They have the power to screw us over, but won't) The only difference between the two of you is that you're basing your argument on past behavior, and he's giving the company the benefit of the doubt. When you're comparing the consumers of something you dislike to DOMESTIC ABUSE VICTIMS, it's time to take a step back for a bit.
Haha, okay, maybe that last bit was in slightly poor taste. I have a rather black sense of humor so things like that can escape me.thehorror2 said:
Still I feel like the alegory fits as I see tons of hardcore fans raving about their favorite companies while they gouge them and do other very sketchy things, but you're right, it's not right to make that joke.
However, I back my argument. Of course I'm basing it on past behavior, you don't start calling a little kid the devil because he has the potential to grow into a fascist dictator.
The second steam screws me over, or I even hear about it screwing others over in a way that I find unacceptable I'll instantly switch my opinion, I'm constantly ready to adapt as things can and always do change, so I don't really think it's fair at all to call me a fanboy simply because I'm pointing out EA's genuinely negative actions and noting that steam hasn't really made any. Also I've only recently starting enjoying steam, meaning I don't have a long history to connect them to, I'm just aware of how they're looking right now.
I don't trust large corporations any more than the next guy, and I know that by law their only concern is profit. Period. However, a select few of them are run by people who understand that making people happy equals profit and didn't get brainwashed out of caring for the human condition by business school.
I don't feel we should assume that every megacorp is just waiting to turn evil. That's just silly. And there is nothing wrong with Steam wanting my money, EVERYONE wants to get paid, it's how they present themselves and how greedy (not in terms of how much money they can make, but how much money they TAKE, if a million people buy a game they discounted to 5 dollars they are going to make 5 million dollars, that's a ton of cash, but they could have marked it up to 20, lost only a percentage of the sales and made more money. THIS KIND OF ACTION IS GREEDY, not simply wanting money). In this age, all we are is consumers, that is what capitalism always ends at, our money is our vote and where we spend it shapes the world.
the biggest simple difference is 'now' if ea forces other company's to join them you'll soon have to have an ea origin account to enjoy half the latest content, when it would be simpler if everything were on steamJambalayaBob said:
you can back one horse or the other, but steam already has a zillion customers that like steam ( or at-least allow it to live ) and want it to be successful so they can continue having steam sales, keep their accounts and the hordes of games they've collected intact on servers that have funding
seriously, what happens if steam / valve goes bankrupt? or even just looses a decent enough market share to cause cutbacks to its service?
( obviously not going to happen in the near future )
this sort of change is clearly going to have a huge impact on the gaming community
and I sure wont back it.
ea has done nothing to earn my respect or trust, they've plastered degenerative gamer slander all over the tv, made its customers look like drooling idiots and will just be seen as a money grabbing evil corporation.
( which frankly its clear it is, i mean seriously you pay for the privilege of pre-ordering on origin?? wtf. )
then they want to set up a store to directly compete with steam because steam is a popular platform
are you seeing a pattern yet?
ea 'just' want money, now. they aren't a gaming company they're a full on suit and tie moneymaking corporation and they now have the power to make things like this fly
this was a bad idea for everyone, just like everything ea does it's like a giant with the brain of a child
Yeah, no. You're actually supporting a false equivalency between Valve and EA. Anyone can plainly see that they are both businesses attempting to generate profit, but it's pretty damn obvious that they go about it in drastically different fashions - and one is vastly better for consumers.
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And there's the thing.JambalayaBob said:
So far Valve has done us no wrong, so we trust them.
EA has been shit for a long time, and is only getting worse.
The fact that they have similar services means nothing when one is much more trustworthy historically than the other.
You say that Valve has the POTENTIAL to be as bad as EA, but EA is ALREADY as bad as EA.
Many different reasons really
One reason is this
http://kotaku.com/5831805/what-did-gabe-newell-say-to-the-half+life-3-protesters
the EA counterpoint being
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/10/03/using-hacked-bf3-servers-banhammer/
The other is I live in New Zealand, tha majority of games on Steam I can get at the same price as the US, which is a god send for me given the price of PC games over here, there are some exceptions being priced at $89.99 US eg 40K: Space Marine and Civilisation V.
On Origin nearly entirety of EAs catalogue is priced $89.95 US for new/recent releases for people in Australia and New Zealand, hell the Digital Deluxe edition of ME3 is about $109.99 US on Origin, I can pick up a physical copy of the deluxe edition in NZ for the same freaking price.
One reason is this
http://kotaku.com/5831805/what-did-gabe-newell-say-to-the-half+life-3-protesters
the EA counterpoint being
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/10/03/using-hacked-bf3-servers-banhammer/
The other is I live in New Zealand, tha majority of games on Steam I can get at the same price as the US, which is a god send for me given the price of PC games over here, there are some exceptions being priced at $89.99 US eg 40K: Space Marine and Civilisation V.
On Origin nearly entirety of EAs catalogue is priced $89.95 US for new/recent releases for people in Australia and New Zealand, hell the Digital Deluxe edition of ME3 is about $109.99 US on Origin, I can pick up a physical copy of the deluxe edition in NZ for the same freaking price.
EA and Valve have vastly different ethical and business practices. The whole "Well someday Valve might become evil to" argument is inane. EA is scum. They hate the people that buy their games and see them as nothing more than criminals or dollar signs, or both. They openly show that attitude and Origins "You agree to let us datamine the shit out of your PC so we can sell that information" clause pretty much cements that.
Valve may just see us all as giant wallets with eyes, but even if they do, they don't show it as blatantly and they do some good in turn.
The entire point of the OP seems to be "Well Valve could be bad to and you'd hate EA even if they do good things." The stance is pointless. You're arguing "What ifs." People like Valve more than EA because in the current reality, not some potential future, they simply don't do the horrible stuff that EA does. EA does not do any of the positive things that Valve does.
If you're going to argue a "Thes companies could be the same! Soylent Green will some day be people!" point, do it in present, factual, tense, not "what ifs" that haven't happened and you have no way of determining if they will. I know this may smash your hippie "fight the power" dreams, but there are some large companies that actually do the right thing more than the most profitable thing. EA is not one of those companies. Valve, generally, is because they realize that being "good" gets more in the long term.
Valve may just see us all as giant wallets with eyes, but even if they do, they don't show it as blatantly and they do some good in turn.
The entire point of the OP seems to be "Well Valve could be bad to and you'd hate EA even if they do good things." The stance is pointless. You're arguing "What ifs." People like Valve more than EA because in the current reality, not some potential future, they simply don't do the horrible stuff that EA does. EA does not do any of the positive things that Valve does.
If you're going to argue a "Thes companies could be the same! Soylent Green will some day be people!" point, do it in present, factual, tense, not "what ifs" that haven't happened and you have no way of determining if they will. I know this may smash your hippie "fight the power" dreams, but there are some large companies that actually do the right thing more than the most profitable thing. EA is not one of those companies. Valve, generally, is because they realize that being "good" gets more in the long term.