Our Covid Response
- Thread starter gorfias
- Start date
Sorry, my time-displaced self (or maybe I'm the displaced one?), seems our timelines are desyncing even more, cuz I don't even have a date for mine yet.
What argument? It is self-evidently waffle. Firstly, it is grounded in no clear evidence. Secondly, from a logical standpoint it amounts to "if it's not done right, it won't work". To which the obvious answer is... get it right. One can take the issue that people (such as yourself) are determined to undermine good infection control because it offends their sense of freedom therefore infection control won't work, in which case you might understand why people who do care about infection control don't think of people like you very kindly.
One of the parties very conspicuously wanted healthcare for all, but couldn't do it because of the total obstructionism of their opponents and the USA's legislative system which is designed to facilitate that sort of obstruction. So they enacted a better-than-nothing semi-access instead, which aforementioned opponents have spent years trying to kill.
There is no meaningful "bad as each other" argument here.
Of course there's a country B. Unless those who leave Australia are just staying in international waters, or in space.
It is in every country's interest to limit dispersal. If people leave and increase the transmission in another country, that will eventually come back to bite country A as well: by lengthening the pandemic and encouraging mutation.
They've literally already been provided to you multiple times.
That's funny, because only a few short weeks ago you were swearing blind that the vaccines would definitely protect us from future variants. It's almost as if you don't know what you're talking about.
Measles, bacterial meningitis, rubella, erythema, hepatitis A can all be infectious prior to symptoms. Several are extremely highly contagious.
I mean, he didn't literally say "go die for the economy" but in the interview I posted earlier and in other appearances, he has said this change was in heavy part to keeping everything open and not have "essential jobs" shut down because people are sick (so yeah, go die for the economy). He can sugar coat and spin it all he wants but ultimately the CDCs official policy is if you test positive, wait five days and then get back to work because Bezos needs to keep his warehouse open peasant.
Now I'm not a scientist so maybe I'm missing something but even the chart thing and the CDC link you gave shows people are still contagious after five days. They might be LESS contagious but being less contagious doesn't mean not contagious. The link also seems to imply this is for people with the vaccine only, which I haven't ever heard him mention on any of his "some of you may die but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make" tour.
Edit: With that, I also wonder about the social distance part. Like...it says your odds are 1%-10% in the press release but is that overall? Like you got six people in the pizzeria kitchen (you're ass to ass in those places; there ain't no social distancing in the kitchen). If Jonny got Covid and is on Day 6 and is at 1%, is that 1% all day interaction? Everyone can just stand face to face with Jonny all day and only have a 1% chance of getting sick? Or is this a 1% per interaction, which you'd be around him all day all up in his business for hours as you're all making pizza and sending drivers out and he's touching pizza and boxes and handling money from customers and...
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One might think the CDC performed a sort of risk analysis. Although I suspect more likely it went something like that the government consulted with the CDC, made it's decision, and then handed that decision to the CDC to announce.
We already know, the CEO of Delta called up the CDC and asked them to shave off some of the days.
Yes, they did a risk analysis. They decided "Some of you may die but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make" is their official disease policy.
It's a mystery why so many people don't trust the CDC after they've spent the last two years stepping on rakes, growling, then proceeding to step on another rake. Just another rake in the field of rakes.
The CDC is a government agency, which on the one hand has some hardcore science work, and at the other end is the interface with government policy and public communication. It is necessarily true that at the point of the interface, the CDC ends up with compromised positions reflecting the government's objectives as well as the science. And, of course, it and its personnel are sometimes going to make mistakes just because no-one's perfect.
This is something that I think gets unfortunately overlooked too often. The CDC is a public health agency. Their remit is the intersection of health science and public policy. The "pure" science needs to be transformed into policies that can actually be implemented both politically and societally. Sometimes that means putting out recommendations that are halfway measures if it results in more lives saved than attempting to coerce unwilling people into taking the full measures. The US isn't a state like China which can mandate totalitarian controls in the name of the greater good and expect to get away without (significant) pushback, even if the policies would make sense according to the "pure" science.
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Ah yes, the administration does everything in it's power to crunch people into going back to work, then claim there's no will to save lives.
All the pressure is at the top, if it was a question of what they could get people to do, they've been campaigned against for 2 years just fine, it's when a CEO makes a call that policy changes. Supporting people in the pandemic was also popular... until CEOs complained and that died too. Hiding behind "they're a public agency and have to play politics" is absurdly hollow when they create those politics themselves.
All the pressure is at the top, if it was a question of what they could get people to do, they've been campaigned against for 2 years just fine, it's when a CEO makes a call that policy changes. Supporting people in the pandemic was also popular... until CEOs complained and that died too. Hiding behind "they're a public agency and have to play politics" is absurdly hollow when they create those politics themselves.
I wonder what kind of tune these people would be singing if the CEO of Delta gave President Trump a call to have the timeline changed from 10 days to 5 days because we need to get people back to work...
And this is why Line Cook was the most dangerous job to have last year
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Israel extends second COVID-19 booster to elderly in care facilities
Israel is extending its offer of a fourth COVID-19 vaccine dose to elderly people in care facilities, Health Minister Nitzan Horowitz said on Friday, citing their high exposure and vulnerability to infections.
www.reuters.com
And we are already starting to do the fourth dose. Which is understandable. But now the anti-vaxers will scream the vaccines don't work even more.
What countries that border China have as good reporting as most western nations? You have to at least adjust by age for any of these comparisons because age is the number 1 risk factor, India for example has an average age of 10 years younger than the US. So assuming the same exact spread in both countries, the US will have more deaths than India. Now, deaths in the US are mainly from unvaccinated, which has nothing do with policy differences. You have to look at number pre-vaccine to see whose party did better with regards to policy. And again, Florida is still doing above average even though the media likes to call their governor DeathSantis.If you're concerned, pick another country. The point is we have a wealth of data for southeast Asia and it is generally very positive compared to the US. As for the US
U.S. COVID death rate by state 2023 | Statista
As of March 2023, Arizona had the highest COVID death rate in the U.S., with 455 deaths per 100,000 population. Hawaii had the lowest death rate.www.statista.com
Generally speaking yes, conservative states are doing worse than less conservative states.
Vaccines and food aren't the same.
US to send additional 500 million doses of Covid-19 vaccines to foreign nations in 2022 | CNN Politics
The United States is set to significantly increase the amount of Covid-19 vaccines it will ship to foreign nations beginning in 2022 in an effort to end the pandemic worldwide, President Joe Biden announced Wednesday.
www.cnn.com
Nope, none of the cost-benefit analyses had to do with money at all. Where's JUST ONE analysis that shows lockdowns are more beneficial?
You have to adjust for confounding variables in anything. Why would you think that doesn't mean counting old people? It means if State_A has 20% of its population 65+ and State_B has 15% of its population 65+, then assuming the same spread in both states, State_A will have more deaths per 100k than State_B even if they performed exactly the same.
They never knew the science to begin with. You think 6 feet distance has any science behind it? You can't do enough testing to actually keep contagious people away from each other. If testing lowers case numbers, why isn't it lowering case numbers? If someone gets a PCR test and waits 2 days for a result that comes back positive, that means they were positive 2 days ago, and if they have had no symptoms, chances are high they cleared out the virus fast from some form of immunity. I'm not saying to go back to work next day in that exact scenario but waiting 10 days with no symptoms is pretty ridiculous. Why would you make people stay home for 10 days when they aren't sick and almost certainly not contagious? We're not taking about covid 2020 here as it's A LOT less dangerous with everyone that wants it having at least vaccination immunity.
Regardless the actual money some CEO or manager is upset at losing over lowered production (which I couldn't care less about), the fact is you just can't run a business with people out 10 days and not even sick. Do you want your hospitals understaffed? How can someone run a small business with like 10 employees if half of them are always quarantining? Would you go to some business that you don't know is open or closed because it changes daily? With regards to flying, you're actively costing lives because we know covid doesn't spread on planes to begin with (science) so why are non-sick pilots and flight attendants not working meaning more people have to drive due to cancelled flights meaning more people are dying from car accidents then because driving is more dangerous. It has nothing to do with CEOs not liking their profit margins.
How long virus particles are found in covid patients have nothing to do with how long the patient is contagious. The tests don't know if the viral particles are active or not. After you've taken care of the virus, and not contagious, you can still test positive. Just basing how long to quarantine squarely on time to test negative is bunk science. Places like NIH never actually did the important studies to answer needed questions and just went with basically arbitrary numbers.
If doing all these tests are "controlling" the spread, why is the spread even more than before? If the virus was localized somewhere, then testing can work, but it's not localized, it's all over the place. It was too widespread in March 2020 in the US for testing and tracing to have worked let alone now. Many ID experts have said that for a long time now. And why are cases even something we care about anymore anyway when anyone that wants immunity can get it for free and the virus is far less dangerous than it was?
US experts question whether counting Covid cases is still the right approach
Case counts ‘don’t reflect what they used to’, experts argue, as data suggests Omicron is less severe but more contagious
www.theguardian.com
One party wants stuff only because it knows that stuff won't happen. That's why democrats like Biden say "We need a Republican Party. We need an opposition that's principled and strong." Both parties are horrible and nobody should vote for either. They're the same party, that's the trick. The most poignant line from the new Don't Look Up movie is:
There's three types of American people. There are you, the working class. Us, the cool rich, and then them. *Crowd boos* I'm sorry, but we need them. We need them because you build us up to fight them.
Here's examples of what happens in local governments totally run by liberals.
Country_B in my example is not stopping said person from coming to Country_B, it's Country_A that's not letting them leave.
Nope, not one single time has anyone provided a cost-benefit analysis that lockdowns produced more benefit.
The vaccines work against severe disease, hospitalizations, and deaths in variants. This is a post of mine from almost exactly a year ago. I'm still saying the same thing today (until the actual science and data changes). Testing positive doesn't matter if you don't get the DISEASE or get basically a cold. I never said vaccines would protect against infection because that's a bullshit and totally unattainable goal. Infection is not a "bad word".
How the fuck you gonna use measles of an example of something that was ever controlled prior to vaccination?
I've never said or implied people that are sick should go back to work. That is not the argument.
Whereas people that are clogging up ERs that aren't sick is a problem. Thanks to the media for fear mongering.
COVID-positive Vermonters with no symptoms clog up ERs
Some Vermonters who are able to find antigen tests and then test positive are clogging up emergency rooms.
www.wcax.com
Vietnam, the one I have specifically called out multiple times now, as having an advanced healthcare system and a real effort to containing and fighting COVID. Thailand isn't that bad either, it's also a fraction.
And no, a state that is in the top 10 for COVID deaths isn't "better than average", I don't care that you like to ignore deaths that make you look bad. You can also look at the rest of the top 10 worst states if you like and see that 7 of them are deep red and 1 is a strong purple. Meanwhile the top 10 best states against COVID, 6 are strong blue with a solid purple in there. You have to jump through a ton of mental hoops and cherry pick figures, while everyone else can just drop a solid 10 ton weight of statistics on you. There are clear and obvious trends that you hate to see because it means the opinions you grabbed off of youtube are wrong and you can't just not back other people's thoughts anymore.