Our Covid Response

[The Rogue Wolf]

It's not a mild cold if you inject it into an elderly population that is both immunologically naive to it and immunocompromised, but that happens once, and then the world moves on.

So the guy who tells us that pro-choice people don't value human life also dismisses the MILLIONS of needless deaths this would cause with "then the world moves on".

 

[thebobmaster]

I wasn't even necessarily talking about that. Whiplashing into someone else in your own car, or going limp and smacking them, is a real threat that happens mid crash.

In all fairness, Phoenix did specify that the unbuckled person in this analogy was in another car.

 

[Avnger]

So the guy who tells us that pro-choice people don't value human life also dismisses the MILLIONS of needless deaths this would cause with "then the world moves on".

“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

The literal title of the 1st article is "We shouldn’t worry when a virus mutates during disease outbreaks" and you think it states that we should worry about mutations?

I'm pretty sure it says it's impossible to guess at how it will mutate and it's a mistake to assume they will automatically get weaker. But then, I read the body and not the headline. Read the damn thing maybe. If virues always got weaker, we wouldn't be blindsided by the occasional Deadlier Flu

Where? I work in hospitals all over Indiana and Illinois and the only time you might say they were strained was fall 2020. You do realize hospitals are meant to be run at high capacity, right? So when the news says such and such hospital is at 90% capacity, that most likely doesn't mean much of anything.

I'm beginning to think you just aren't very observant

1,200 National Guard members sent to Oregon hospitals facing COVID surge

PORTLAND, Ore. (KATU) — The Oregon National Guard is being deployed to more than 50 different hospitals across the state as COVID-19 hospitalizations rise, officials said Wednesday. Gov. Kate Brown said more than 1,200 Oregon National Guard members are being sent to help out hospital staff amid...

nbcmontana.com

 

[tstorm823]

So the guy who tells us that pro-choice people don't value human life

I definitely never said that.

also dismisses the MILLIONS of needless deaths this would cause with "then the world moves on".

Acceptance of what you cannot change is not endorsement of it.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Let's get this straight: you believe that people who don't have immunity are... just as likely to be infectious as those who are immune?

It beggars belief that anyone can believe the sheer nonsense you do.



I wasn't even necessarily talking about that. Whiplashing into someone else in your own car, or going limp and smacking them, is a real threat that happens mid crash.

Yes, vaccines don't stop the spread. Sure, they do stop the spread for a short time after getting the vaccine. But after that, it doesn't matter if you're immune or not with regards to the odds of said person being infectious that's in the same room as you. Also, you have to kick out ~1,000 unvaccinated people from a place to stop a single infection and that study was done before omicron. So if the guy at the table next to you at a restaurant is immune or not immune, it doesn't matter at all.

I was talking about people in other cars, not in your own car.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I'm pretty sure it says it's impossible to guess at how it will mutate and it's a mistake to assume they will automatically get weaker. But then, I read the body and not the headline. Read the damn thing maybe. If virues always got weaker, we wouldn't be blindsided by the occasional Deadlier Flu

I'm beginning to think you just aren't very observant

1,200 National Guard members sent to Oregon hospitals facing COVID surge

PORTLAND, Ore. (KATU) — The Oregon National Guard is being deployed to more than 50 different hospitals across the state as COVID-19 hospitalizations rise, officials said Wednesday. Gov. Kate Brown said more than 1,200 Oregon National Guard members are being sent to help out hospital staff amid...

nbcmontana.com

It also says don't worry about mutations so why would you worry about them? Did you worry about virus mutations before covid?

Yes, most hospitals run at very high capacity by design and are understaffed. The more rural the hospital the worse it is. And hospitals now are actually less ready to be able to expand care than they were in 2020. It's not as if covid is some huge thing pushing a hospital from like a nice 50% capacity to 120% capacity. The problem is hospitals in normal times run at basically full capacity so any uptick can cause such issues.

 

[Silvanus]

Yes, vaccines don't stop the spread. Sure, they do stop the spread for a short time after getting the vaccine. But after that, it doesn't matter if you're immune or not with regards to the odds of said person being infectious that's in the same room as you.

Completely unscientific nonsense.

You vaccinate, you're less likely to become infected in the first instance, and if you do catch it the disease is likely to be much less severe, for the period during which the vaccine is effective. Lower severity means a lower viral load, and less likelihood of passing it on-- though if you're in an enclosed space with someone infected, even vaccinated, then the likelihood of catching Omicron from them is high regardless.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It also says don't worry about mutations so why would you worry about them? Did you worry about virus mutations before covid?

Every flu season.

Yes, most hospitals run at very high capacity by design and are understaffed. The more rural the hospital the worse it is. And hospitals now are actually less ready to be able to expand care than they were in 2020. It's not as if covid is some huge thing pushing a hospital from like a nice 50% capacity to 120% capacity. The problem is hospitals in normal times run at basically full capacity so any uptick can cause such issues.

GEE, YOU FUCKING THINK. WHAT COULD'VE POSSIBLY HAPPENED IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS THAT CAUSED AN UPTICK

 

[Seanchaidh]

Covid-19 and variants are nearly guaranteed to follow the same pattern.

No. They are not.

Where?

Washington State. Alberta. Plenty of other places.

 

[Agema]

There's a placebo effect when you give something to people... And the study had a very minor positive effect so... probably placebo effect.

Shows how little you know. The placebo effect overwhelmingly tends to apply where subjective interpretations of illness is measured.

So a patient may report improvement in things like pain, nausea, etc. with placebo, but there really is not a (significant) placebo effect in terms of curing prostate cancer. Therefore where measurements are removed from the subjective, such as requirement for a ventilator or viral load, it is vastly less likely.

Ventilation was not effectively communicated to the public, it's fucking obvious it wasn't. You're just arguing against me just because.

No. You are only arguing this in the first place, "just because".

You have an anti-establishment, even conspiracy theory-lite, attitude that drives you to innate suspicion of bodies such as public health institutions and pharmaceutical companies. (To be fair, no-one sane fully trusts them, but they can be pragmatically evaluated). That's why you've fallen for kookery about HCQ, vitamin D, and the godawful maverick hero against the establish trope in terms of people like Pierre Kory. Secondly because you just don't like the restrictions that some of these bodies have proposed, and in order to rationalise your unwillingness to abide by these restrictions, you've been manufacturingly intellectual bullshit excuses based on bad, selective science, and - together with the anti-establishment streak - attempting to attack relevant people (e.g. Fauci) and institutions (e.g. CDC) to further undermine them.

 

[Mister Mumbler]

You think there is a DECENT chance they become embedded in your car or you? It's probably not even one in a million chance plus it's really hard to go through a windshield nowadays let alone 2 windshields (theirs and yours) to actually "embed" in you. You guys have no idea about how risky anything is... If life was as dangerous as you think it is, I would've died like 100 times over as a kid.

-

It's really hard to go through windshields nowadays. The chances of someone from another car entering your car in a crash is so very unlikely.

Ok, so straight up the person who doesn't understand how risky life is you, because it is pretty easy to send yourself through the windshield in a bad enough wreck if not (properly) wearing a seat belt, like here;

Spoiler: WARNING: Horrific crash

 

[Trunkage]

Ok, so straight up the person who doesn't understand how risky life is you, because it is pretty easy to send yourself through the windshield in a bad enough wreck if not (properly) wearing a seat belt, like here;

Spoiler: WARNING: Horrific crash

Goddam notifications are sometimes glitchy here.

Thanks for rebutting that nonsense. I didn't see it

 

[Seanchaidh]

what a way to cut unemployment

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Completely unscientific nonsense.

You vaccinate, you're less likely to become infected in the first instance, and if you do catch it the disease is likely to be much less severe, for the period during which the vaccine is effective. Lower severity means a lower viral load, and less likelihood of passing it on-- though if you're in an enclosed space with someone infected, even vaccinated, then the likelihood of catching Omicron from them is high regardless.

Evaluating the number of unvaccinated people needed to exclude to prevent SARS-CoV-2 transmissions

Background Vaccine mandates and vaccine passports (VMVP) for SARS-CoV-2 are thought to be a path out of the pandemic by increasing vaccination through coercion and excluding unvaccinated people from different settings because they are viewed as being at significant risk of transmitting...

www.medrxiv.org

Every flu season.

GEE, YOU FUCKING THINK. WHAT COULD'VE POSSIBLY HAPPENED IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS THAT CAUSED AN UPTICK

Why do you think travel nurses have been a thing before covid?!?!?!

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Shows how little you know. The placebo effect overwhelmingly tends to apply where subjective interpretations of illness is measured.

So a patient may report improvement in things like pain, nausea, etc. with placebo, but there really is not a (significant) placebo effect in terms of curing prostate cancer. Therefore where measurements are removed from the subjective, such as requirement for a ventilator or viral load, it is vastly less likely.



No. You are only arguing this in the first place, "just because".

You have an anti-establishment, even conspiracy theory-lite, attitude that drives you to innate suspicion of bodies such as public health institutions and pharmaceutical companies. (To be fair, no-one sane fully trusts them, but they can be pragmatically evaluated). That's why you've fallen for kookery about HCQ, vitamin D, and the godawful maverick hero against the establish trope in terms of people like Pierre Kory. Secondly because you just don't like the restrictions that some of these bodies have proposed, and in order to rationalise your unwillingness to abide by these restrictions, you've been manufacturingly intellectual bullshit excuses based on bad, selective science, and - together with the anti-establishment streak - attempting to attack relevant people (e.g. Fauci) and institutions (e.g. CDC) to further undermine them.

Cancer and flu-like infection are 2 very different things.

I bet if people instead got healthy vs depending on some $3,000 drug that does nothing, they'd have better covid outcomes. None of these restrictions have shown to saved more life. Fauci just pulls shit out of his ass at this point, he literally said that new drug was the reason he didn't go to the hospital, and what actual proof does he have for that? Literally nothing.

Ok, so straight up the person who doesn't understand how risky life is you, because it is pretty easy to send yourself through the windshield in a bad enough wreck if not (properly) wearing a seat belt, like here;

Spoiler: WARNING: Horrific crash

One incident of something happening = that it is likely to happen?

 

[Silvanus]

Evaluating the number of unvaccinated people needed to exclude to prevent SARS-CoV-2 transmissions

Background Vaccine mandates and vaccine passports (VMVP) for SARS-CoV-2 are thought to be a path out of the pandemic by increasing vaccination through coercion and excluding unvaccinated people from different settings because they are viewed as being at significant risk of transmitting...

www.medrxiv.org

So, they make a clear value judgement in the introductory background statement, and it hasn't been peer reviewed. Nope, this is gonna be some rubbish.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

So, they make a clear value judgement in the introductory background statement, and it hasn't been peer reviewed. Nope, this is gonna be some rubbish.

It's basic math that was done even before omicron... Kicking out unvaccinated doesn't stop infections.

 

[Silvanus]

It's basic math that was done even before omicron... Kicking out unvaccinated doesn't stop infections.

No, it's really not, it makes numerous secondary assumptions.

 

[Agema]

Cancer and flu-like infection are 2 very different things.

Whilst technically correct, that simply doesn't address the argument about the relevance of subjective and objective measures of illness to the placebo effect.

I bet if people instead got healthy vs depending on some $3,000 drug that does nothing, they'd have better covid outcomes.

Yes, so I hope you're out there campaigning hard for things like: a comprehensive healthcare system that favours preventative measures, readily accessible to all, supporting public education and assisting with lifestyle choices; forcing food producers to add nutritional guidance on food packaging; better school meals; better support for exercise (e.g. public sports facilities); maybe even things like heavier taxation on unhealthy foods and cigarettes, etc.