outdoor cat

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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Saelune said:
Lil devils x said:
Saelune said:
Im going with the everyone think's their an expert, but few are route and say this is the same stuff every animal video has ever.

Ultimately go with evil's recommendation and see a vet, cause atleast a vet has some training. Everything else...I dont know and wont claim to.
Veterinarians will tell you to keep your cat indoors.

The consensus among veterinarians and organizations such as the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) is that it?s wiser to keep cats indoors. ?Considering the potential dangers outdoors, an indoor lifestyle is much safer for cats,? Brunt says. ?Indoor cats have a much lower likelihood of becoming hurt or ill from outdoor hazards.?

As evidence, indoor cats live longer than their outdoor counterparts. Cats who are kept indoors can reach the ripe old age of 17 or more years, whereas outdoor cats live an average of just two to five years. Another reason for indoor cats? longevity is that it?s easier for their owners to identify health problems early, before they become life threatening.
http://pets.webmd.com/cats/features/should-you-have-an-indoor-cat-or-an-outdoor-cat
I dont have a doubt in my mind that more than a few will say the opposite. Vets are people, and people can disagree, even doctors. Hell, your thing says "the consensus" which suggests that "most but not all" agree.

Ive had two pairs of cats. The first pair we let out regularly. One took to it more than the other. We never forced them mind you, but if one wanted out, we let them. Dont know how long they lived, since we had to give them away when we moved.

The second pair are indoor cats. One is neurotic as hell, but it was orphaned on the street still blind, so maybe thats why.

Ofcourse indoor cats live longer, I dont doubt that, but I wont say I know which makes cats generally happier.

Plus everyone keeps saying this or that, ignoring the places they live. Where I live, outdoor cats seem to be doing just fine, but I live in a comfy suburb, that has plenty of people and nature as opposed to too much of either.
I have yet to meet a vet that would tell someone to put their cat outside. The Vet here will not only chew your arse out for letting your cat roam, she will pick up cats and get them new homes if she finds them out. In addition, in some places it is actually illegal to allow your cat to roam at night, the same way it is illegal to let your dog roam. Some areas go as far as to require a harness for cats to comply with the leash law and your cats have to be crated or on a leash if outdoors.

Of course whether or not they are happier is related to their environment. When they have wild jungle chases through the house and patio enclosure everyday it keeps it far more entertaining than cats that sit around and do nothing. It is a matter of how much people are invested in their cats. you can build all kinds of crazy things for them if you want to put forth the effort. Cats love to run around the ceilings. Cats need to be able to climb, jump and run to be healthy, so if they are not able to do that in the house, they may need to have their own paths built to do so.





It is just a matter of how invested people are in their cats. Giving them what they need makes all the difference in the world.

EDIT: If you pick up a cat from a shelter, often they make you sign a legally binding agreement that requires you to keep your cat indoors or they will not allow you to adopt them.
read #3 on the contract:
http://www.loveatlastpetrescue.com/uploads/4/8/1/8/48185161/lalpr_cat_adoption_contract.pdf

This issue is not actually one that is really all that debated. Legally in many areas, if your cat is "outdoors" it is considered a stray by law and they will be picked up and sometimes go as far to fine the owner if they are found.
 

Catnip1024

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Lil devils x said:
Those cat enclosures are something I haven't come across before. Not personally a fan of the idea - don't like caging things, and it still doesn't deal with the range issue. But whatever floats your boat. Or your cats boat. I know that mine would have gone ballistic if you tried to keep them penned up too long - just the weekend around Bonfire Night was hard enough.

Actually, thinking about it, I think I know why I've never seen those things. It's eternally windy and raining where I grew up, so all it would do is let a cat freeze to death.
Lil devils x said:
The reason why Veterinarians will tell you not to let your cat roam freely outdoors is because it is actually better for them not to do so.
No vet has ever suggested that to me, and I wouldn't listen if they did. (Although, where I live now, I would just not have a cat, not living in a suitable location).
Lil devils x said:
Since my cats use the toilet and flush
Come again? How do they reach the handle?
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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Catnip1024 said:
Lil devils x said:
Those cat enclosures are something I haven't come across before. Not personally a fan of the idea - don't like caging things, and it still doesn't deal with the range issue. But whatever floats your boat. Or your cats boat. I know that mine would have gone ballistic if you tried to keep them penned up too long - just the weekend around Bonfire Night was hard enough.

Actually, thinking about it, I think I know why I've never seen those things. It's eternally windy and raining where I grew up, so all it would do is let a cat freeze to death.
Lil devils x said:
The reason why Veterinarians will tell you not to let your cat roam freely outdoors is because it is actually better for them not to do so.
No vet has ever suggested that to me, and I wouldn't listen if they did. (Although, where I live now, I would just not have a cat, not living in a suitable location).
Lil devils x said:
Since my cats use the toilet and flush
Come again? How do they reach the handle?
Turns out it is actually illegal to let your cats outdoors in many areas here, and if they are found, they are picked up and you can be fined. They will not even allow you to adopt from the animal shelters unless you sign a legal binding contract stating you will keep your cat indoors only. (check the agreement in the above post #3 on the application).

Leash laws are really common here for cats.
http://lakewood.advocatemag.com/2013/07/31/thats-right-theres-a-dallas-cat-leash-law/
http://www.pinellascounty.org/animalservices/faq.htm
http://www.cityoffortwayne.org/just-for-neighborhood-associations.html
http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/oldham/2014/07/24/goshen-adopts-cat-leash-law/13107999/

My cats are large enough they can flush a regular handle now like this:

but there are actually all kinds of ways to do it, you can attach a scratcher to it or one of those toy handle flushers:

or if you want to get really fancy, you can get a button or a motion sensor if you have really lazy cats.
https://www.amazon.com/FlushMinder-Dual-Flush-single-flush-dual-flush-Accessory/dp/B00AP8UO9E

More Entertaining cats using the potty videos!
This is for the lazy ones:

Depending on where you live, it may actually be illegal to let your cat roam.
 

bluegate

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Lil devils x said:
More Entertaining cats using the potty videos!
This is for the lazy ones:
Those were some fun to watch videos.

As for the topic creator, I don't think that turning your domestic problem into the neighborhoods problem is such a good idea. Take it as an excuse to go totally Home Improvement on your garage and make the best kitty playground a man can make, go! We want pictures!
 

fenrizz

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Just let the cat out.
Denying the cat accesss to the outside borders on animal cruelty.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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fenrizz said:
Just let the cat out.
Denying the cat accesss to the outside borders on animal cruelty.
No, letting the cat out is actually considered animal cruelty and is illegal in many areas now. OP should make sure it is even legal where they live or could be facing fines AND having their cat taken away from them.
 

fenrizz

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Lil devils x said:
fenrizz said:
Just let the cat out.
Denying the cat accesss to the outside borders on animal cruelty.
No, letting the cat out is actually considered animal cruelty and is illegal in many areas now. OP should make sure it is even legal where they live or could be facing fines AND having their cat taken away from them.
It is a sad day indeed, when a cat no longer can be let outside.
Declawed, neutered and kept inside as a simple toy for us to have fun with.

It sickens me, it really does.
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

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fenrizz said:
Lil devils x said:
fenrizz said:
Just let the cat out.
Denying the cat accesss to the outside borders on animal cruelty.
No, letting the cat out is actually considered animal cruelty and is illegal in many areas now. OP should make sure it is even legal where they live or could be facing fines AND having their cat taken away from them.
It is a sad day indeed, when a cat no longer can be let outside.
Declawed, neutered and kept inside as a simple toy for us to have fun with.

It sickens me, it really does.


OT: When I was a kid, we had an outdoor cat live past 15. He died of cold in our garage, despite my Dad's heating system he rigged up. Outside cats can last but it is a bit of a roll of the dice. Cars, coyotes, falls...

I guess it would be a harder decision for you if you had a little one around but I'd say look at transitioning to outdoors. Just realize the risks when you do so.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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fenrizz said:
Lil devils x said:
fenrizz said:
Just let the cat out.
Denying the cat accesss to the outside borders on animal cruelty.
No, letting the cat out is actually considered animal cruelty and is illegal in many areas now. OP should make sure it is even legal where they live or could be facing fines AND having their cat taken away from them.
It is a sad day indeed, when a cat no longer can be let outside.
Declawed, neutered and kept inside as a simple toy for us to have fun with.

It sickens me, it really does.
Neutered yes, but declawing is cruel and you have to sign a promise of no declawing and keep your cat indoors to adopt a pet. You don't keep them inside as a " toy" you build them a crazy safe jungle all over your house and let them have jungle races for fun instead.




You have it backwards, they are not our playthings, we are theirs. We are their servants and they have trained us to build them a safe paradise and work to feed them.

You can have fully clawed indoor cats that never scratch anything they are not supposed to as long as you give them plenty to play with that they can scratch.
 

sky14kemea

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Whether or not you should let your cat outside is entirely dependant on your cat, tbh.

Some cats are outdoor cats, some are purely indoor. (Some do both, damn them!)

All the cats I've had but 1 have been outdoorsy. So yes you do get the risk of them getting fleas/scratched in a fight.
Silentpony said:
Outdoor cats die. Pure and simple. I grew up around outdoor cats, and they simply die. Fall of cliffs, killed by wild animals, disappear only to be found weeks later, dead from snakebites. Had one run over by a car, another by a tractor. One died from a pot falling on him, another from a closing garage door.

You set your cat outside, it'll die. Thems the brakes.
That's another factor for OP. If you live in Deathstralia or where this guy/gal lives then probably keep the cat indoors. I live in a somewhat safer place (edge of the city/rural, so less cars and less coyotes) so my opinion is skewed by that.

If you don't have to pay to ask a Vet for advice, I'd say go for that first. Also would be a good time to get them neutered. Sometimes that calms the crazy a little.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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sky14kemea said:
Whether or not you should let your cat outside is entirely dependant on your cat, tbh.

Some cats are outdoor cats, some are purely indoor. (Some do both, damn them!)

All the cats I've had but 1 have been outdoorsy. So yes you do get the risk of them getting fleas/scratched in a fight.
Silentpony said:
Outdoor cats die. Pure and simple. I grew up around outdoor cats, and they simply die. Fall of cliffs, killed by wild animals, disappear only to be found weeks later, dead from snakebites. Had one run over by a car, another by a tractor. One died from a pot falling on him, another from a closing garage door.

You set your cat outside, it'll die. Thems the brakes.
That's another factor for OP. If you live in Deathstralia or where this guy/gal lives then probably keep the cat indoors. I live in a somewhat safer place (edge of the city/rural, so less cars and less coyotes) so my opinion is skewed by that.

If you don't have to pay to ask a Vet for advice, I'd say go for that first. Also would be a good time to get them neutered. Sometimes that calms the crazy a little.
Of course whether or not it is even legal where they live should ALSO be considered, Not only can they be fined and/or sued as well as animal control policies as they will pick up the cat and it will be considered a stray in many areas here as well. They can take your cat and not let you have it back as well. It is now illegal here to have your cat outdoors without a leash or crate. If you adopted your cat from a shelter here, you may be under legal contract to keep your cat indoors.

I thought they were banning outdoor cats in Australia as well..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11774877/Australia-ready-to-ban-cats-from-going-outdoors.html
 

sneakypenguin

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If you live in an area without predators and low traffic it'd be fine to let them out. Maybe I've been lucky but all my cats are still alive ones even 18 years old still goes out and brawls. They love it outdoors won't come in if weathers nice, will go hunt for a few days, when its cold they'll be homebodies and just go out to do their business. They single handedly solved the mice and rabbit problem will catch snakes and anything else they can't get a hold of.
 

Remus

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I live out in the country. We've had wild pigs, we've had coyotes. But I've had a cat that was half blind and was pure outdoors. He only died because he grew to be so mean that he wasn't safe around children. On the same note, the tom we currently have is a large gray tabby that maybe has a range of a couple acres and generally sticks close to the house. He'll sleep right on my chest whenever I watch TV in the living room. I've had a cat disappear for 5 years only to show up back at my house quite a bit larger and well kept, who later died of natural causes - leukemia. I guess he knew and wanted to be home when he passed. It really depends on where you live and how the property is kept. We have 3 large dogs and a shepherd/pit mixed pup who I guarantee will keep predatory animals a safe distance from our house when he's older. So long as the dogs and cats don't mind each other this can help keep an outdoor cat that can live well into old age. Something to think about if you want a cat that can stay outdoors in the country - it helps to have a dog or two to frighten things that might want to eat that cat.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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Lil devils x said:
Actually, ignore the pro outdoors above. Every single outdoor cat I have had growing up has been killed, and I live in the country and grew up with literally 30 or more outdoor cats over the years. They are usually killed by Coyotes and stray dogs but others have also died from disease and cars. Even when cats are raised outdoors from birth, there are still so many risks that greatly reduce their lifespan.

Google "lifespan of outdoor cat vs indoor cat" and this is what comes up in the box at the top from the SPCA:

The expected lifespan of an indoor-outdoor cat will depend on several factors, including the type of neighborhood you live in and sheer luck. But, on average, cats who are allowed to roam outdoors often don't live to see age five. Cats who are always kept safely confined can live to be 18 to 20 years old.
http://www.mobilespca.org/Portals/0/downloads/documents/Your%20Cat%E2%80%94Indoors%20or%20Out.pdf



Cat's who who are put outdoors that are not raised outdoors do not usually even last a year due to them not being aware of the dangers of the environment, and not knowing how to respond to them. Give her a playroom if you want, but whatever you do, do not throw her out at night if you want her to live very long. It is honestly pretty traumatizing cleaning up your cat's body strewed across the lawn because you did not over and over again as I have been forced to do while growing up in the country. In the city, it is even worse due to the sheer number of dogs roaming the streets.

Here are some suggestions:

http://www.perfectpaws.com/noct.html#.V8qww_krLcs
http://www.petful.com/behaviors/cat-keeping-you-up-all-night/
http://moderncat.com/articles/12-sounds-cats-make-and-what-they-mean/68602
http://pets.webmd.com/cats/guide/nighttime-activity-cats
http://pets.webmd.com/cats/features/when-cats-wake-you-up
http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-experts/how-can-i-get-my-cat-to-stop-waking-me-up
http://www.pet-happy.com/how-to-stop-your-cat-waking-you-up-at-night-or-early-in-the-morning/
http://www.catster.com/lifestyle/cat-behavior-wakes-you-up-at-night-6-reasons

Changing their play cycle to where they are too tired to go crazy at night by wearing them out and feeding them and then ignoring their attention seeking behavior at night usually makes them stop eventually. It is juts getting through the transitional period that can be rough. None of my cats make much noise at night anymore, but instead have their "crazy running around the house like lunatics" time in the morning instead. I set their schedule from the beginning that way, and since I have had cats so long, the older cats trained the younger cats to let them know when play time was so they are all on the same schedule long as I keep the same cycle with them. I have 3 cats that help keep each other in line. I think it helps for cats to have a friend because they are very social animals and it is good for them to have someone they can relate to. I mean how would you feel never having someone that really understands what you are trying to tell them? Having more than one cat not only means someone to play with and understand them, but also someone to wash behind the other's ears.

http://www.catster.com/lifestyle/cat-behavior-care-adoption-tips-two-multiple-cats-better-than-one

But depending on the temperament of your current cat, they may not warm up to a new cat immediately and see them as an invader. While it is better to raise 2 cats together from youth up, you can introduce a new car if they are similar in size to where you do not have to worry as much about the older cat killing the smaller one out of fear and jealousy.

It is not usually advisable to bring a kitten into a home with a grown male tomcat unless you are prepared to protect the kitten at all times.

http://www.animalplanet.com/pets/how-to-introduce-a-new-cat-to-an-old-cat/
http://icatcare.org/advice/how-introduce-kitten-cat
https://www.petfinder.com/cats/bringing-a-cat-home/cat-to-cat-introductions/
Devils, this may be the first time I've EVER been in total and complete agreement with you. Yes, cats do love it outdoors, they're predators and prowlers by nature after all, but there is just WAY too much out there that can utterly wreck the fuzzy little guys.

Live in the city? Cars, trucks, subway trains (Vehicles in general really), falling objects, the stampedes of people, and the odd restaurant.

Live in the country? Wild animals, diseases, farming equipment, vehicles (Yes, vehicles twice. I can't go a week without seeing roadkill around here.), ticks, mosquitoes, and so on and forth. (Not to mention the impact cats can have on bird and squirrel populations.)

Keep the frigging cats indoors.
 

Eclipse Dragon

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Please don't put your cat outside. Outdoor cats have a dramatically reduced lifespan because of all the hazards they face. As someone who has had outdoor cats growing up and now never will, outdoor cats die.

Formatting the garage to be a playroom sounds like a wonderful idea, as long as you actually format the garage to be appealing, rather than just lock her up in a vast empty area to her own devices (Have a scratching post, toys, put up some shelves she can jump and climb around on. Put stuff around to encourage her to explore). Have a comfy bed for her to settle into and absolutely make sure to include your smell, she wants to be where you are, so some of your dirty laundry will help her feel at home in the new environment. Also, don't lock her in the garage, give her the option to roam so she doesn't feel jailed. If you make the area appealing enough, she will choose to go there on her own.

Though formatting the garage would be great for her and would help with some of that pent up energy, it may not solve your problem. Since this is a sudden change in her behavior, it would be worth a visit to the vet to get her a clean bill of health before you consider the issue to be behavioral. If she gets the all-clear from the vet, try playing with her more and then feeding her right before bed. Also make sure not to entertain her meowing at night, it reinforces the bad behavior.

You can try getting a special harness and taking the cat for a walk if you really want her to experience the outdoors safely with all the stimulation that comes of it, but if she's not a particularly wild breed and she's been indoors her whole life, she probably won't take to it well.



Edit: Another thing you could consider are called "friendly pheromones" [https://www.amazon.com/Comfort-Zone-Feliway-Diffuser-Kit/dp/B00I9SI40S/ref=sr_1_1/167-3566565-9667957?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1473178613&sr=1-1&keywords=feliway+for+cats], it's an environmental spray that helps calm anxious cats. Use it in the garage with the other cat stuff I mentioned above.

Go luck to you, when kitties act out, there's always a reason for it. Find the reason and kitty will stop acting out.
 

Fappy

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the silence said:
Get another cat!

Seriously, if she is lonely, another cat might make her less lonely.
This is a possible solution.

Also, you could look into discipline techniques. Cats respond to positive reinforcement far more than negative, so that's a good place to start, but you will want to research techniques for dealing with specific behaviors. As for the scratching, get it a scratching post/toys and give it claw caps. Caps are a pain to maintain, but your carpet and furniture will be spared.

Five months old is still quite young, and some cats are as hyper active and needy as a kitten for awhile.
 

Fappy

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fenrizz said:
Lil devils x said:
fenrizz said:
Just let the cat out.
Denying the cat accesss to the outside borders on animal cruelty.
No, letting the cat out is actually considered animal cruelty and is illegal in many areas now. OP should make sure it is even legal where they live or could be facing fines AND having their cat taken away from them.
It is a sad day indeed, when a cat no longer can be let outside.
Declawed, neutered and kept inside as a simple toy for us to have fun with.

It sickens me, it really does.
Cats are the most successful invasive species in the world (besides us). If we let cats roam outside we're technically environmental terrorists! It's a catch 22 :p
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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Fappy said:
the silence said:
Get another cat!

Seriously, if she is lonely, another cat might make her less lonely.
This is a possible solution.

Also, you could look into discipline techniques. Cats respond to positive reinforcement far more than negative, so that's a good place to start, but you will want to research techniques for dealing with specific behaviors. As for the scratching, get it a scratching post/toys and give it claw caps. Caps are a pain to maintain, but your carpet and furniture will be spared.

Five months old is still quite young, and some cats are as hyper active and needy as a kitten for awhile.
Yea.. I never bothered with claw caps, but I taught my cats when they were kittens not to claw anything but their claw toys and they never claw anything but their stuff now. If cat is only 5 months, still early enough to introduce another kitten similar age pretty safely since they are not a grouchy old cat already. I would think that would be the best idea so they grow up together being able to play together and keep each other entertained. If you teach the dominant cat not to do stuff they will "police" the others and make sure they dont mess anything up. XD
 

axlryder

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Fappy said:
the silence said:
Get another cat!

Seriously, if she is lonely, another cat might make her less lonely.
This is a possible solution.

Also, you could look into discipline techniques. Cats respond to positive reinforcement far more than negative, so that's a good place to start, but you will want to research techniques for dealing with specific behaviors. As for the scratching, get it a scratching post/toys and give it claw caps. Caps are a pain to maintain, but your carpet and furniture will be spared.

Five months old is still quite young, and some cats are as hyper active and needy as a kitten for awhile.
She's not 5 months old, we've just had her that long. There are too many older cats waiting to die in shelters for me to feel comfortable adopting a kitten that is most likely going to be adopted by someone else. She's 3 now.

As to the getting another cat option, I don't really see that as a possibility. Every time my sister tried to get a companion cat for her various felines over the years it always ended poorly. Also, at the shelter, Kiki (our cat) was nice to all the people but hissed at like 3 other cats who were pretty much minding their own business. Maybe she had some bad experiences, but at the time it seemed clear that she doesn't like other cats. It's actually part of the reason we got her: we wanted a cat that would be happier solo.

While the brunt playtime was already scheduled late at night, we have adjusted her feeding schedule, so hopefully that will help. We will also adamantly ignore her antics, though much of her meandering seems to generate noise that isn't explicitly directed at waking us up and we attempt to ignore it regardless.

Ultimately I think I'm going to go with the garage route if she doesn't calm down in a couple weeks (she's been verified as in good health btw). Various flat health risks of the outdoors aside (which have been duly noted), she really just doesn't seem like she'd do well. Dumb or not, she's a total dork that would likely get herself killed due to obliviousness.

It's too bad though, as we have this lovely large field behind our house that has nothing but birds, squirrels and the occasional skunk in it.

Here's a picture of the little fuzzball if anyone was curious



Yes, she's on a slight diet, btw. Needs to lose a little weight because a miscommunication about feeding.
 

The Philistine

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Outdoor cats tend to either die young or live a good long age, depending on how smart they are about outdoor dangers like cars, dogs, and random assholes willing to shoot a cat. If your cat is already habituated to the indoors, it should probably stay that way. Growing up every cat I've had was outdoors, and about half lived between 6months-3years while the other half lived between 12 and 18 years. The learning curve for a cat outdoors is pretty steep.