Overpopulation. Resources running out. What do we do about these things?
- Thread starter lucky_sharm
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Oh god, not this thread again.lucky_sharm said:
Prattled on very, very extensively about why overpopulation and peak resource issues are not the problem they're cracked up to be. Won't do it again here for the umpteenth time. I'll just give you some links and you can do some reading.
All about the population explosion, why it won't actually happen, and why higher standards of living will actually help the world population decrease, according to the UN's own statistics and research on population growth:
http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/longrange2/WorldPop2300final.pdf
Peak Oil, and why you shouldn't worry:
http://www.freakonomics.com/2005/08/21/peak-oil-welcome-to-the-medias-new-version-of-shark-attacks/
And more:
http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2005/07/how_to_talk_to.html
Happy reading.
Not to sound like a heartless bastard, or to piss of people who believe in the sacredness of human life, but seriously? War. A good old fashioned war could reduce a lot of the population.
Also, when I see TV shows that worship those lousy people in the Midwest that have 10+ kids, I seriously get pissed.
Also, when I see TV shows that worship those lousy people in the Midwest that have 10+ kids, I seriously get pissed.
Earth happens to have enough resources to sustain about 30 billion people, and I'll probably be dead before that happens, so I'm not really concerned.
I say population can do what it wants and grow however it wants, but when their kids are starving, then they're SOL.
Best place to spread out to, is space. The sea isn't practical for large populations, and space has infinite possibilities.
I say population can do what it wants and grow however it wants, but when their kids are starving, then they're SOL.
Best place to spread out to, is space. The sea isn't practical for large populations, and space has infinite possibilities.
"Everyone"? I sure as hell don't. And I doubt many in the western world support that idea either.shadowslayer81 said:
Too bad we need a real breakthrough in colonization and FTL-drives before we can "spread to space".Torrasque said:
That kinda made me laugh a little, especially given organized religion's history. Guess since so many people have offered their various flavors of "Makes no sense, WTF, harsh, etc.", I probably should elaborate. I wanted to leave it for people to use their imagination to figure it out, but I see it's rather a stretch for some. Let's look at my offending quote a little closer, shall we?Nouw said:
"Outlaw organized religion."
A little secret about me, personally - I don't care much if anyone's religious or not. Part of how I judge the measure of a person's worth is based on their beliefs, but it's important to note that the term belief does not necessarily imply religion. It shares similar connotations with it, but it's extremely foolish (IMO, at least) to always associate the two in similar contexts. Personal beliefs are just that - personal beliefs. As a famous comedian once said "Beliefs are neat. Cherish them, but don't share them like it's the truth", and I wholeheartedly agree with it. As for the actual belief the person has, so long as it doesn't interfere with another person's life, freedom or beliefs, I'm fine with it. In other words: so long as it doesn't go beyond the personal, all is kosher. When you look at organized religion's history as a collective, however, you'll find that rarely has it ever been kept personal; hence George Carlin's nice little ending to his Complaints and Grievances HBO special "Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself."
Such is the issue I bring forth. Look at what it's done and continues to do. I've read the big three "holy books" of religion (Christianity/Catholic, Judaism and Islam) and all three imply, or invoke, the need for the follower to be fruitful and multiply AND to be adherent to a strict standard of philosophy and a way of life in order to be accepted as one of the faithful. You could argue that there are sources of overpopulation that are not connected to religion, and I would concede to that, but the fact that religion is behind most of the reasons for overpopulation in the world render that particular argument moot.
Now, the other aspect of this thread is the resource management. Overpopulation brings its own issue into this, as food consumption alone from nearly 7 billion people in the world is mind boggling. Starvation, poverty and the like aside, religion has always been a nice little tool for the poor. Gives them a level of comfort and, again, I can't argue against that. However, organized religion as a collective has the awe-inspiring title of "leading cause of human death" and in spite of all things technological and scientific, it has kept that title throughout human history and it isn't hard to see why. Religion, easily, can lay claim to some of the brutal, most bloody wars ever known. And wars...cost resources! Sadder still, wars can, and often do, potentially destroy resources...while, at the same time, costing resources to maintain! And these resources don't automatically come back. It takes time, a good deal of it unfortunately, and while large wars don't happen too terribly often, the destruction caused by even minor skirmishes these days can take a horrendous toll on the land all of us depend on to live off of. Of course, when differences clash, it's all a matter of who is more apt to defend their differences, and organized religion can claim a manner of zealotry and brutality to the point where there is no manner of reason or compassion whatsoever - which leads, inevitibly, to more conflict. All of the religious hatreds and tensions, to this very day, still linger in the societies where religion thrives (namely, almost all of them) and is still given relevance. Even the government of the USA (though some will steadfastly attempt to deny it) is largely influenced by outside religious figures. In truth, the government in America can be described as a theocratic fascism (the more correct term may be theocratic corporatism, however) rather than the democracy we are told it is. Look at what the hatred and difference that organized religion teaches and spreads and it's clear why these different organizations, and the institutions they can influence, represent such a threat to the survival of humanity overall and why there can be no sane solution to these problems to humanity without the removal of the organized part of religion.
And in case you still think what I proposed is harsh and extreme, consider this: there have been accounts in organized religion's history where they have killed their own over minor and petty differences. It shouldn't be a stretch of the imagination what they might do to a complete outsider of the faith.
Universal availability of birth control.
Mitigating all those Goddamn sixteen-year-olds getting knocked up with children they can't support would go a long way to solving this problem. Ditto for all those uneducated, minimum-wage job-having spods living in the projects and trailer parks. Given the circumstances, we really should keep people from having kids they can't support and/or don't want.
Plus, you have to remember a lot of this population problem is centered in places like India, where the population density is just crazy huge, or places like Africa, where they're not allowed to wear condoms (damn you, pope!) and about 80% of the women there have been raped at some point. I've heard population growth is actually starting to taper off in the developed world, though it is still positive overall.
Mitigating all those Goddamn sixteen-year-olds getting knocked up with children they can't support would go a long way to solving this problem. Ditto for all those uneducated, minimum-wage job-having spods living in the projects and trailer parks. Given the circumstances, we really should keep people from having kids they can't support and/or don't want.
Plus, you have to remember a lot of this population problem is centered in places like India, where the population density is just crazy huge, or places like Africa, where they're not allowed to wear condoms (damn you, pope!) and about 80% of the women there have been raped at some point. I've heard population growth is actually starting to taper off in the developed world, though it is still positive overall.
lucky_sharm said:
Mortality rates are increasing due to the widespread disease due to travel, medicine is producing more placebos and is becoming less effective, people are dying at similar rates.Stone Tablet said:
Checkmate.
Instead of 1 child rule use a 2 child rule to keep population steady. Increase retirement age until late 70s or early 80s. Although if person becomes mentally unfit then they should take early retirement. I mean with retirement at age 65 and lower in others that is just under half your life left. What are you going to do for the last 35 years? Many people do prefer to have something to keep them busy so maybe after 65 have a reduction in hours to phase them out of workplace. This should take care of the greying population problem
I do not know how possible this would be but in cities have massive apartment blocks that are really farming complexes. No idea how to feasibly do this but solar energy and renewable energy sources would be needed to run this. Although it would cut out most transport costs of foods and to combat the unemployment in farming industry re-employ them in this area or to teach farming techniques.
Energy what we need to do is make all vehicles electric although phase it in overtime. As well as use solar, wind, tidal, etc forms of energy so we do not put our eggs in one basket. If we can get an economic and controlled fusion reaction great but I am not holding my breath for that and fusion is just going to give us more waste. Yes I know fusion has come on leaps and bounds but there is going to be a waste problem.
There are plenty of damn resources we just need to start using them properly and right.
I do not know how possible this would be but in cities have massive apartment blocks that are really farming complexes. No idea how to feasibly do this but solar energy and renewable energy sources would be needed to run this. Although it would cut out most transport costs of foods and to combat the unemployment in farming industry re-employ them in this area or to teach farming techniques.
Energy what we need to do is make all vehicles electric although phase it in overtime. As well as use solar, wind, tidal, etc forms of energy so we do not put our eggs in one basket. If we can get an economic and controlled fusion reaction great but I am not holding my breath for that and fusion is just going to give us more waste. Yes I know fusion has come on leaps and bounds but there is going to be a waste problem.
There are plenty of damn resources we just need to start using them properly and right.
I would say we stop having children, but then you have the Ageing Population problem.
So no idea, besides just killing millions of people.
So no idea, besides just killing millions of people.