Overrated Classic Games
- Thread starter B-Cell_v1legacy
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Ninja Gaiden (NES) - I noticed game gets a lot of love from people growing up in the 80s and 90s, but this game is just a broken mess. Enemies that constantly respawn the immediate microsecond you kill one, enemies that have a habit of knocking you in a pit, and actually making you losing your health, and some of the worst checkpoints in a video game ever. It's a good thing the second game fix most of the problems I had with the first one. It doesn't help that games like Revenge of Shinobi and Shinobi 3 showed you can do a hard ninja game, but without being freaking cheap.
Double Dragon 1 and 2 Arcade - as a brawler fan, I hate to say this but at the end of the day these days are just kinda average. Both games are slow and sluggish and methodical. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it just shows you how far the Brawlers has come. games like Final Fight and Streets of Rage that came later outclassed them in every way. And even then, there are some arcade Brawlers from the early 90s that out class Final Fight as a whole (see Undercover Cops or Violent Storm). Hell, even Double Dragon Advance and Double Dragon Neon improve on all the mechanics in every single way.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles the Arcade/Turtles in Time Arcade - I still like these games, but they are just button mashers. Now Turtles In Ttime on the Super Nintendo and Hyperstone Heist on the Sega Genesis, actually put thought into the moves you make. For example and Turtles in Time the arcade version, throwing is random while in the console versions, you can select your type of throw. The Sega Genesis version lacked the throwing the enemy at the screen maneuver. Most Konami arcade Brawlers fit this description.
RE4 - I like the game, but there are so many over-the-shoulder shooters that improve on every single way that it is kind of hard to go back and play again. Dead Space, Gears of War (not a fan), Shadows of the Damned, and Evil Within allows you to move and shoot at the same time. Shadows even allowed you to have a dodge roll. It's why I never really picked up RE5, which was just RE 4.5, but with Co-op. They should have just made RE5 single player like they originally intended.
Street Fighter 2 - Hear me out. I am a huge Street Fighter Fanboy, but even back then when I played other fighting games, there were so many that improved and did more for the genre than what Street Fighter 2 did in every single way. Just look at SNK's line of fighting games. After Samurai Shodown and Art of Fighting, a lot of their games is topple over most Street Fighter games. Especially when they kept be releasing the same game over and over. Now as in Kate is guilty of this to some extent with its King of Fighters games, but Capcom was way worse with this. The only reason Capcom was able to get away with this was because it was so popular and gaming consumerist didn't know any better.
Double Dragon 1 and 2 Arcade - as a brawler fan, I hate to say this but at the end of the day these days are just kinda average. Both games are slow and sluggish and methodical. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it just shows you how far the Brawlers has come. games like Final Fight and Streets of Rage that came later outclassed them in every way. And even then, there are some arcade Brawlers from the early 90s that out class Final Fight as a whole (see Undercover Cops or Violent Storm). Hell, even Double Dragon Advance and Double Dragon Neon improve on all the mechanics in every single way.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles the Arcade/Turtles in Time Arcade - I still like these games, but they are just button mashers. Now Turtles In Ttime on the Super Nintendo and Hyperstone Heist on the Sega Genesis, actually put thought into the moves you make. For example and Turtles in Time the arcade version, throwing is random while in the console versions, you can select your type of throw. The Sega Genesis version lacked the throwing the enemy at the screen maneuver. Most Konami arcade Brawlers fit this description.
RE4 - I like the game, but there are so many over-the-shoulder shooters that improve on every single way that it is kind of hard to go back and play again. Dead Space, Gears of War (not a fan), Shadows of the Damned, and Evil Within allows you to move and shoot at the same time. Shadows even allowed you to have a dodge roll. It's why I never really picked up RE5, which was just RE 4.5, but with Co-op. They should have just made RE5 single player like they originally intended.
Street Fighter 2 - Hear me out. I am a huge Street Fighter Fanboy, but even back then when I played other fighting games, there were so many that improved and did more for the genre than what Street Fighter 2 did in every single way. Just look at SNK's line of fighting games. After Samurai Shodown and Art of Fighting, a lot of their games is topple over most Street Fighter games. Especially when they kept be releasing the same game over and over. Now as in Kate is guilty of this to some extent with its King of Fighters games, but Capcom was way worse with this. The only reason Capcom was able to get away with this was because it was so popular and gaming consumerist didn't know any better.
Oh look another thread for declaring things that you hate that everyone else loves.
In this thread you're going to be sharing for either:
a) you are too young or too shallow (possibly both) to appreciate them
b) Never liked them even at the time.
c) think they haven't aged well, which in some cases is probably true. Most early 3D games really haven't aged well.
Many things in both movies and games that are heralded as classics don't hold up when judged by today's standards. When I was taking multimedia in college I watched 2001: Space Odyssey for a project and it bored the hell out of me, but it's considered a classic.
In this thread you're going to be sharing for either:
a) you are too young or too shallow (possibly both) to appreciate them
b) Never liked them even at the time.
c) think they haven't aged well, which in some cases is probably true. Most early 3D games really haven't aged well.
Many things in both movies and games that are heralded as classics don't hold up when judged by today's standards. When I was taking multimedia in college I watched 2001: Space Odyssey for a project and it bored the hell out of me, but it's considered a classic.
EVERY game is overrated because of how horrible video game criticism is. A game or anything getting an AVERAGE score of 98 across nearly 100 people is literally impossible. Even whatever I'd say is my favorite, most perfect game ever made shouldn't get an aggregate score of 98 or even 95. It takes near damn incompetence for a AAA release to get a Metacritic score below 80 when an 8/10 is a damn good score that should be reserved for a game just shy of greatness. Just imagine if video games had a Tomato-meter, every game would be like 99% fresh.
To put how piss poor game criticism is into perspective, this year's Oscars gave Shape of Water the Best Picture and the average score on RottenTomatoes for that film is 8.4/10
Basically boils down to what Catfood said:
To put how piss poor game criticism is into perspective, this year's Oscars gave Shape of Water the Best Picture and the average score on RottenTomatoes for that film is 8.4/10
Basically boils down to what Catfood said:
---Catfood220 said:
The grenade button made throwing grenades cease require premeditation on the player's part. Having a button instantly chuck a powerful explosive ruined many multiplayer games; single player I have no problem with it. Especially any shooter with high health is totally ruined by that button because you could just chuck a grenade at a player when you know you lost a gunfight (and are about to die) forcing the other player to either finish the kill and probably die themselves or run from the grenade and not finish the kill. Regen health mechanic that most shooters have now only makes the issue worse because that player that should've died and lost the gunfight is now back to full health in a few seconds. It's an example why it's so important for developers to actually think out every mechanic and element in the game vs just taking popular mechanics and putting them into the game without thinking of how they interact with each other.Arnoxthe1 said:
The 2 gun limit had been present in things like Counter Strike, Rainbow Six, Desert Storm and plenty of others, it was not a new thing in Halo (just as twin stick controls weren't new either).B-Cell said:
It fit the run and gun, disposable firepower play style that Halo was built around extremely well. It's poor implementation in other series since can't really be laid at Bungies feet.
The buffer health system in Combat Evolved is pretty good, it allows only a partial reset between fights, so it still influences the player's approach. Halo 2 with it's fully regenerative system was the one that screwed the pooch, in CE attacking on low shields is a calculated risk, in 2 it's instant death, which leads to the hide behind the wall gameplay.
Bungie went back to the buffer system for ODST and Reach, it works very well in those two games as well, ODST grunting not withstanding.
I'd argue that GoldenEye is better than Perfect Dark.fix-the-spade said:
PD certainly brings improvements in mechanics (especially multiplayer) and presentation (e.g. voice acting). However, in PD, there's a number of single player levels I just find tedious (e.g. Alaska) or tepid (e.g. the Pelagic missions), whereas in GoldenEye, there aren't really any dud levels (except maybe Surface 2). Also, while PD does have a better story, to get it you need to do a lot of reading at the Carrington Institute, and unlock it only after beating the game. GoldenEye's story is more simple, but it's far better integrated within the game.
Oh boy, you have my sympathies.Canadamus Prime said:
Alaska/Air Force One/Crash Site are some of my favourite levels, particularly Crash Site, you can assassinate President Obama's evil clone!Hawki said:
I really liked the Deep Sea level too, it was a very alien feeling environment, plus it's a player's first run in with the Skedar proper (on higher difficulties).
The levels that really annoyed me were Datadyne Escape, Area 51 part 2 and Carrington Institute, they put too much out of your control or in Escape's case made you dodge that flipping gunship for twenty minutes. Areas where you had to rely on squishy NPCs not to screw up are certainly the weakest points of the game
I agree with you that Goldeneye is much better streamlined, Perfect Dark takes a lot of digging to get the most out of, but that is something I really like in a game.
I've stated something before to the effect of you need to have ambition to actually fail.fix-the-spade said:
Goldeneye does have a certain level of coherency in its writing over PD, it helps when it was already written as narrative before being gamed and grounded at basic level in basic reality. Perfect Dark seems like they took a lot of ideas and kind of threw them together, with a much more gamey (or comic booky) style of writing haphazardly assembling things together to try them out. I'd give an edge to Perfect Dark just for some of the QoL (having the option for not using the C buttons for aiming alone would almost do it), but it does have its own share of dubious ideas amidst its better ones.
Agreed.B-Cell said:
Resident Evil 4 had a pretty damn good opening area (in the town, shortly after arriving), but devolved from there pretty quickly. People seem to credit it with being hugely influential in terms of gameplay, but it wasn't; it was a somewhat mediocre third-person shooter, and that's about all.
The tone of the game was also way off for me. The first several games (1-3, and to a lesser extent Code Veronica) had an element of semi-camp horror to them, but the genuine stuff was always dominant. RE4 ramped the campy schlock-value up to 11, as if that had been what had made the earlier instalments memorable and charming, which was bollocks.
In summary, RE1 & 2 had the "camp/horror" balanced like early Romero stuff. The camp is there, in small measure, but its primarily horror. RE4 had the "camp/horror" balanced like schlock b-movies that aped his work years later, and never had his charm.
I like the air base and Air Force One levels, but not Crash Site. Also, the clone. How do we know he's evil? How did dataDyne make a clone so fast? Should we consider the ethics of killing a clone that's likely only existed for a few hours?fix-the-spade said:
Nup.
I'll give it props for ambience, but it's just too slow paced for me. Doesn't help that in the last level there's a long corridor where enemies come at you one by one.fix-the-spade said:
I loved all of those levels. Great pacing, constant sense of danger, etc.fix-the-spade said:
Why? I enjoyed it once it got to the Dave/Hal-9000 part, but it took forever to get there and it really could've done without the 15 minute long landing sequence.Hawki said:
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What about my standards on writing have changed and now I find a game I used to like completely and utterly unbearable precisely because of that?Canadamus Prime said:
Like for example I think Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic is awful now, not due to the RPG mechanics but due to the awful infantile black & white morality writing, which I didn't mind when I was 13, arguably the writing hasn't changed in quality and I don't doubt that a lot of people probably still enjoy it but I find it downright awful.
I replayed that game like a month ago.
Same could be said of anything Star Wars related.Kaleion said:
The whole force nonsense is so fucking childish as to be nonsensical.
It's not even 'good vs. bad' level territory, but so utterly fucking stupid as to assume that a heavily populated galaxy as if has this deontological connection to morality through some holy spirit for which is universal.
So much so that the whole furore over midichlorians is bad not because the explanation itself was bad, but because any attempt to actually fabricate a reason for it will be inherently stupid simply because the force is just that. Inherently stupid.
Well that black and white morality thing is a problem that hangs over Star Wars as whole and is not exclusive to KotOR, but alright fair enough.Kaleion said:
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