I cant think of a single retailer that allows you to return a game once its been opened anyways. Its the same way with any other form of copyright digital media. The way I see it there should be a change to the way things are handled. We should be allowed to return a game if it is buggy. If the game-play sucks thats something you have to deal with but buggy games should not be tolerable. Take new vegas. It sold a bazillion copies and people complained about it being buggy but since there's nothing that can be done about it obsidian just sees this as an ok behavior. Now if it sold a million copies on its first day at retail then the second day 3/4 people returned the game for a refund it would send the right message, but thats not possible due to copyright laws which are horribly outdated. Nobody tries to buy a game, burn it, then take it back. piracy is run by torrents and direct downloads now.Le Tueur said:Oh yeah well I would like to submit this into evidence.
I rest my case.
Pachter in Major Tizzy With Advocacy Group Over Black Ops
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
- Start date
Well actually they are persuing legal action the intent is that a law was broken hence not a civil matter, nor is the activison case civil especially in the implication of EA acting in an anticompetitive manner.Therumancer said:
The Gov cares as little about this as they do Valve having a monopoly of the digital market.
Unless they can harm the retail presence in what is not a essential market for Activision, they will not change their course.
It's a non-sequitor, no victory is possible with this strategy, they would be better off making a political point that is would be a vote winner to fall in the consumers favor.
quixotic
Caught up in the romance of noble deeds and the pursuit of unreachable goals
look at this: http://www.callofduty.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=313365&sid=cncgnke6k74bf11tu4ompjlnk4Tom Goldman said:
they just announced a patch for the ps3 version
Well, the product advertised is occasionally incapable of delivering the offered aspects, so they have that on their side. Pachter's point that games have bugs is fair, but there is a certain quality threshold that should be achieved. Having the occasional glitch through a wall into the void might be acceptable, but a condition that renders part of your game unplayable is just bad game design. Yes, we jest and swear that games are pushed back, but when they come out early and apparently still in the bug fixing phase of development, then we swear more, and ridicule without mercy. The occasional bug, like a graphical glitch, can be passed over. A bug that destroys your character or prevents you from firing or empties your inventory when you walk across a certain boundary or are carrying exactly three grenades, the pistol, and the shotgun are bugs the developer should have fixed, Mr Pachter.
Ironically, the Wii version of the game runs perfectly well. I find this exceptionally amusing.
Ironically, the Wii version of the game runs perfectly well. I find this exceptionally amusing.
And I'll stop you there as we're talking about the PC and PS3 versions. And we're talking about the UK. Where you can't.MaxPowers666 said:
...
Tell me, Pachter, which store is this where you can buy a game, open it, play it, and then decide to return it for a refund? Because every single store I've ever been to says "you opened it, which voids the return policy unless it's defective." And defective means a manufacturing defect, such as opening the box and finding the disc snapped in half or its scratched, not that the game is buggy.
Furthermore, I don't know about you, but for me a reasonable time for a patch would be a few weeks, maybe a month tops for game-breaking bugs that are present at launch (which, by the way, I do NOT expect such bad bugs when the game comes out, I expect that they tested it and it works properly and only has minor bugs present). Black Ops came out in November 9, 2010. it is now January 25, 2011. If there are still game-breaking bugs in Black Ops, that is completely unacceptable. The "reasonable time" ship has long since sailed, not that game-breaking bugs are reasonable in the first place (they are NOT).
Bottom line, Gamers' Voice is right about at least one thing: Pachter is indeed ignorant of reality.
obviously. I just thought it was funny that this whole mess gets started, then within a few days a patch is released for the ps3.jamesworkshop said:
One thing is buggy, another is unplayable, Black Ops on PC was UNPLAYABLE for the first month or so for me.
This:MaxPowers666 said:
Also, say what you want, but even in the US, no you can't return a new game for a refund. You are lucky if you can get store credit (usually you can't), but even if you do, store credit is not the same thing as a refund. And you mentioned GameStop, don't they only let you return it if it was a used game? If you bought it new, I'm pretty sure their answer is still "tough shit" like every other store.The_root_of_all_evil said:
And that's just the US. But this is about UK gamers, where things are different. That use game returning thing we can do in the US at GameStop? They can't do that in the UK, even if they buy a used game over there, if they come back before 7 days are up, apparently their options are "keep it or trade it in for less than what you paid for it."
And now you wonder why piracy is so rampant on the PC...Tom Goldman said:
Tell me, which store can I purchase and return a PC game for a refund? I'd like to know, because as far as I've ever seen, once it's unpackaged, it's mine.
It's about time that someone has brought attention to the media of the dipping quality control of games these days. I am a "serious gamer" and I did not expect to get bugs in games...until this latest generation of rushed, shoddy products that are heavily marketed and poorly tested.
Maybe you should spend a bit of your hard earned money by putting out some quality instead of your quantity...
If the intended purpose of a game is to be played, and I cannot play the game because of bugs, does that not mean that it was released outside its inteded purpose? If I buy a hamburger and it tastes terrible, or is rotten, I can return it for a full refund. If I watch a crappy movie, I can walk out of the theatre and get my money back. If I buy a T.V. it is warrantyable (ie. fixable), or I get my money back. Or a car, or any other numerous products. If I go to a restaurant and get shitty service, I can expect compensation in some way. But if I get a terrible or unplayable game...I'm stuck with it? What is wrong with this picture, and why do we as "serious gamers" accept this?
This. A thousand times this. I can't vouch for Black Ops as I have never played it, nor any other Call of Duties (not my kind of games), but there are many other games that I have purchased and played that if they were any other product or service, the company that put out such shoddy work would quickly be out of business or would be forced to rectify the situation. Either way they would be held accountable. Why is the gaming industry exempt from this?
Honestly, they're on to something. Lately, with patch 1.06 on the PS3, I've experienced my first crash. I was in the middle of a TDM on Firing Range, and the game locked up. I've had framerate stutters and poor texture filtering alongside the aforementioned problems. If you're going to release a game, release it properly. Don't leave optimization issues out in the open. Cause then situations like this happen.
tl;dr Learn to multiplatform Activision and Treyarch.
tl;dr Learn to multiplatform Activision and Treyarch.
I'm going to die for this, but I sort of agree with Pachter. I mean, why go after Black Ops and not New Vegas, which is even buggier. Also, really, how bad can the glitches be if everyone is still constantly playing Black Ops? Also, maybe they should go directly to Treyarch, maybe it was there fault, maybe with extra time it would have been just as glitchy. I do not agree with Pachter about calling Gamers' Voice a crybaby, maybe they actually believe what they are doing is right. I don't think their doing it just for political attention. But I believe they may be misguided.
Argh, I do not want to defend Patcher (who is of course an analyst that looks at releases of software and hardware to offer investment advice) but he's kind of right on a basic level. I mean, yes, games should be as bug free as possible. Totally without bugs is a silly pipe dream that gamers would like to have. When the newest AAA title has 10 million lines of code, a bug has a lot of places to hide. Add porting to another platform, and new ones come with the move. It happens, and it's unfortunate, but it usually doesn't matter in terms of enjoying the game.
To put it in perspective, when we see a boom mike or some questionable SFX in a movie, do we call our senator? No, we don't. What these people in the UK did was file a formal complaint to the government, which makes them crybabies.
For PC gamers that bought BlOPs, the bugs are an unfortunate side effect of having to try to make the game run on every recent-ish DirectX version and every conceivable GFX card, sound card, motherboard and CPU combination. That's why usually, the PC release is late.
To put it in perspective, when we see a boom mike or some questionable SFX in a movie, do we call our senator? No, we don't. What these people in the UK did was file a formal complaint to the government, which makes them crybabies.
For PC gamers that bought BlOPs, the bugs are an unfortunate side effect of having to try to make the game run on every recent-ish DirectX version and every conceivable GFX card, sound card, motherboard and CPU combination. That's why usually, the PC release is late.