Wow, well done. So glad the story of this market analyst was brought to us without any prejudice or opinions inserted that have nothing to do with the article.
Pachter: On-Disc DLC Is "Just Plain Greed"
- Thread starter The Wooster
- Start date
Developers and Publishers argue that On-disk DLC is made using a separate budget, often using secondary teams. By their reasoning, that's extra content. If a game removes X amount of content and sells it as "Extra Content," is the way that content is delivered relevant? I don't think it is.Sylveria said:
Also, dropping into analogies for these discussions doesn't help. Video games are not houses, content is not a shed. You can't download a shed, or make an exact copy of it without any raw materials.
Honestly, about half way through I had to fight off an urge to insert a 300-word review of Nickelback's latest album just to spice things up.PrototypeC said:
Gamers are just pathetic lately. All I ever see from us is whine and complain, ***** and moan. We go on and on about how bad we have it and how the big guys are screwing us over, blah, blah, blah.
When will people just stop flapping their gums (and fingers) and do something about it? I am so fucking sick of seeing threads full of the exact same things over and over again. Don't like the DLC? Don't buy the game. Done. But nooo, most people just buy it and then complain later, 'cause giving the company money will sure teach them not to do it in the future. News flash: they don't give one little crap what you think of them or what you say in a forum; so long as they get their money, you can say whatever you want.
"Oh but my single purchase won't make a difference, anyway. So I may as well but it." - Says the millions of gamers. Yeah, nice logic.
You want a better gaming experience, but you'd rather put up with what you've got and get walked all over than miss out on playing the next AAA release.
Backbone? What backbone?
When will people just stop flapping their gums (and fingers) and do something about it? I am so fucking sick of seeing threads full of the exact same things over and over again. Don't like the DLC? Don't buy the game. Done. But nooo, most people just buy it and then complain later, 'cause giving the company money will sure teach them not to do it in the future. News flash: they don't give one little crap what you think of them or what you say in a forum; so long as they get their money, you can say whatever you want.
"Oh but my single purchase won't make a difference, anyway. So I may as well but it." - Says the millions of gamers. Yeah, nice logic.
You want a better gaming experience, but you'd rather put up with what you've got and get walked all over than miss out on playing the next AAA release.
Backbone? What backbone?
Here's the problem with that line of thought. People who're aware of these problems make up a very small proportion of the gaming market. The fact you can tell two different developers apart, or are even reading about news like this, puts you in a very small minority of industry-savvy gamers. So to a company the size of EA, Activision, Capcom etc, our opinions and even our purchasing habits, don't really matter.Grey Day for Elcia said:
I do agree that a lot of games ARE getting shorter :[
not all, but many these days. glad to see a lotta my favs still have campaigns of decent lengths (Gears, Halo, Assassin's Creed). I just tried out Max Payne 3 this weekend and it surprised me by being quite lengthy (that or all the drunken swaggering about by Payne messed up my recollection of events)
not all, but many these days. glad to see a lotta my favs still have campaigns of decent lengths (Gears, Halo, Assassin's Creed). I just tried out Max Payne 3 this weekend and it surprised me by being quite lengthy (that or all the drunken swaggering about by Payne messed up my recollection of events)
Keep telling yourself that. While you're at it, tell anyone in the minority not to vote--I mean, we can't win, so why do anything, right.Grey Carter said:
I don't know if I want to laugh or slap the shit out of some people.
I say again: you want a better gaming experience, but you'd rather put up with what you've got and get walked all over than miss out on playing the next AAA release.
Backbone? What backbone?
I'm simply offering a sense of perspective. So most of those 833 Modern Warfare 2 boycotters bought the game, that's terrible. The game sold 4.7 million copies in 24 hours.Grey Day for Elcia said:Keep telling yourself that. While you're at it, tell anyone in the minority not to vote--I mean, we can't win, so why do anything, right.Grey Carter said:
I don't know if I want to laugh or slap the shit out of some people.
I say again: you want a better gaming experience, but you'd rather put up with what you've got and get walked all over than miss out on playing the next AAA release.
Backbone? What backbone?
A rerelease with extras packed into it. In this case, the content has already existed for quite a while, and is way past the initial release date, in which case it becomes a nonissue.Crono1973 said:
unless you somehow manage to screw it up, like say, silent hill hd collection, which while not technically a goty, falls under a similar category, and was poorly handled somehow
the main point is, if the content has actually been detached from the original game for the purpose of selling it at a higher rate than the rest of the game, and then the original game is, for all purposes, advertised as a game which hasn't had amputations performed on it, then the unspoken social contract of providing a complete service has been altered in favor of the seller, and the buyer putting up with it only invites further exploitation
You're right. Why actually do anything about the so-called problem when you can just buy the games you say are ruined by DLC and DRM, from the companies you say are terrible monsters and complain about it later in a forum. Sit back and wait for the problem to fix itself or for someone else to do it for you.Grey Carter said:I'm simply offering a sense of perspective. So most of those 833 Modern Warfare 2 boycotters bought the game, that's terrible. The game sold 4.7 million copies in 24 hours.Grey Day for Elcia said:Keep telling yourself that. While you're at it, tell anyone in the minority not to vote--I mean, we can't win, so why do anything, right.Grey Carter said:
I don't know if I want to laugh or slap the shit out of some people.
I say again: you want a better gaming experience, but you'd rather put up with what you've got and get walked all over than miss out on playing the next AAA release.
Backbone? What backbone?
You heard the man, you're irrelevant and your actions won't change anything. Keep buying the stuff you tell us you hate and make a thread about it later.
I'm not really bothered by on-disc DLC or day-one DLC, but I can see why others would be against it.
Though, I have to disagree with the idea that it is legal to access on-disc DLC simply because you own the disk. Sure you acquired the data containing the DLC legally, but you did not purchase the right to use it. It's similar to downloading trial software; You obtained a full version of the software legally, and could have full access to it with a simple crack, but you did not purchase the right to use it.
However, that is just whether it is legal. Whether it is ethical or not I'm not so sure.
Though, I have to disagree with the idea that it is legal to access on-disc DLC simply because you own the disk. Sure you acquired the data containing the DLC legally, but you did not purchase the right to use it. It's similar to downloading trial software; You obtained a full version of the software legally, and could have full access to it with a simple crack, but you did not purchase the right to use it.
However, that is just whether it is legal. Whether it is ethical or not I'm not so sure.
The main problem to this theory is that you dont own the game. whne you buy a game, you buy the right to install and play it unlimited amount of times (in some cases like far cry 2 - limited amount of installs). you dont actually buy the game, you buy the right to play it and the means (physical disc). this is very similar to how steam works really, you buy the ability to play the game unlimited amount of time, but you dont actually own it (yes i know it donwloads the files, but you cant run it without steam).
I am not Grey Carter's voicebox, but you are completely missing the point that he is trying to make. He is not saying that you should not get angry and protest, he is saying that the vast majority of consumers don't even know the difference between EA and Activision, much less jump on the brink to defend consumer rights since they don't even know how they are getting screwed.Grey Day for Elcia said:
Which means that whatever we (as the small minority) do, it will only be a ripple in a pond. This does not mean that we should just give up, we should create enough waves and that ripple will turn into a wave that will wash over whatever developer we are railing against.
Now, if you would excuse me, all these water analogies are making me sea-sick.
Why I love Australian law: Your product would not be fit for purpose for tampering with the disc in any way you wanted (which you thought you would be able to when you purchased it). They should provide you with a full refund considering locking you out of multiplayer is most certainly not fit for purpose. Under US Law though, anything can happen!samsonguy920 said:
Part of it can be on the disk as it has to be to work, as long as you still are downloading a substantial piece of code. My real issue is when all your paying for is a "key" saw this a long time ago where your just downloading 128kb data to release whats on the disk.
It certainly has more to do with consumer rights than baseball players on steroids...that shit always bugged me too; just have a "mutant league" filled with all the grotesque 'roid ragers and let them do as much as they want. Should make for a good show.lotanerve said:
My opinion can be summed up as the following: it's called DOWNLOADABLE content (DLC), not unlockable content (ULC). It should not be on the disc. You can still create the DLC to avoid having idle developers, just don't put it on the disc. Make it actually be downloadable. It'll cause a lot less grief with customers.
As for Day-One DLC, that's not on the same level as On-Disc DLC, because it's usually an actual download to obtain it. However, publishers could go a long way to just hold onto the DLC for a few weeks and not push out immediately. They can have it ready to go on release day, just don't put it out immediately.
This is all nothing more than using psychology and perception to give customers the illusion that they are getting more value for the money. They pay $60 for the base game, and then, some weeks later, after they have recovered from the purchase, they will be willing to pay the extra $5-10 for the DLC that suddenly shows up. They will do this because they then feel the DLC is truly an extra that adds value to the game. If you put everything out all at once, people will have too much insight into how long it really takes you to get the job done (Scotty: "Oh, lad, never tell them how long it'll really take. How else do you think they will come to think you're a miracle worker?"); consequently, they will demand ever more from you, and you will be poorly equipped to deliver, because you have revealed your limits. Simply put, don't play all your cards on the table at the beginning of the game, else you will have nothing to back you up later when you need it.
As for Day-One DLC, that's not on the same level as On-Disc DLC, because it's usually an actual download to obtain it. However, publishers could go a long way to just hold onto the DLC for a few weeks and not push out immediately. They can have it ready to go on release day, just don't put it out immediately.
This is all nothing more than using psychology and perception to give customers the illusion that they are getting more value for the money. They pay $60 for the base game, and then, some weeks later, after they have recovered from the purchase, they will be willing to pay the extra $5-10 for the DLC that suddenly shows up. They will do this because they then feel the DLC is truly an extra that adds value to the game. If you put everything out all at once, people will have too much insight into how long it really takes you to get the job done (Scotty: "Oh, lad, never tell them how long it'll really take. How else do you think they will come to think you're a miracle worker?"); consequently, they will demand ever more from you, and you will be poorly equipped to deliver, because you have revealed your limits. Simply put, don't play all your cards on the table at the beginning of the game, else you will have nothing to back you up later when you need it.