Pachter Says Team Bondi "Wasn't Entitled to Overtime Pay"

[Kapol]

from the looks of it, they are salary employees and not hourly. It is entirely possible there is no clause for overtime work. Most people on salary pay do not have an option of overtime. Sucks, but that is life. And when they signed up for the job they would have known (by reading the employment contract) that there would be no overtime.

I hate to say it but I agree with Pachter... There are a number of salary jobs where people work insane work hours without overtime. If they don't like it, they get another job.

Honestly, my problem with this is not that it's legally wrong, which it likely isn't, but the fact remains that the employees were being overworked to a rediculous degree. Lets do some math:

24 hours per day, at 7 days a week, so 168 hours total. Take 110 hours for work, and that leaves 58 hours free each week. Now, that doesn't sound so bad, then we have to factor in sleep. From what I understand, you're supposed to get 8 hours of sleep each night to stay healthy, so that's 56 hours off, leaving each employee 2 hours. And then you have to figure getting to and from work, bathing themselves, eating, and other things you need to do, and you end up with literally no time for anything else (even bordering on negitive time, which would come out of sleep most likely). And then they get no time for their families or friends. Their lives literally become work, sleep, work, sleep, work, sleep.

Now, I could understand doing that for a week, maybe even a month at the end of development. But for three to six months straight? How is that not overworking your employees!? I know you may say 'Why wouldn't they quit?' Well, they still need to pay for things like their houses, their families if they have one (or other expenses), food, etc. What else could they really do? Try finding another job in a very uncertain company when the game's industry has a lot of problems?

Again, legally this might be allowed, but it just isn't fair to the workers, especially when the promise is 'you might get money if the product sells well,' which is something the employees can't do much about. Yes, LA Noire ended up being pretty popular, but what if it hadn't? I'd say that wasn't hard to imagine, as it's the first big-budget game to do what it did.

 

[Worgen]

pachter is known for being stupid but this just makes me want to punch his stupid face. This is why game devs need unions

 

[Jumplion]

While that is true and it's not as bad as it sounds, there has to be some kind of legal limit to what "necessary" hours can be asked of you. I don't think it's legal to have people work 20hr days 7 days a week, where I live anyway.

But that's what many developers do, if Team Bondi is any indication.

If they are salary employees, then yes. I have to agree with both you and him. Rather odd to get a job and then complain about the fact that you didn't get overtime pay ex post facto when you knew in the first place you wouldn't.

The grievances aren't due to crunch times in general. It's due to exceedingly unreasonable amounts of crunch time. If your development makes it so that you have to work 80+ hour weeks, on weekends, for 6 months straight, something has gone terribly wrong with your management. Shit hits the fan every now and again, a build collapses, code needs to be fixed ASAP, that's understandable. But these stories are not about that kind of crap, this is about the guy working on the "Dora the Explorer" video game in perpetual crunch time, and when the game eventually fails at retail the guy gets no bonuses that Pachter is so eager to tout.

But something does need to change in the industry if this is becoming the norm.

But that's just it, this kind of stuff is part of the norm now. The only reason this kind of shit hasn't been called out is because developers have gotten used to it and nobody is openly speaking about it. This shit has to change, and it has to change now.

 

[koroem]

I wish I was a industry analyst and got paid to say asinine bullshit like this.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

He's not wrong. These guys aren't paid by the hour. Even if you're in a union and you take a salary, you are probably not getting overtime. That is one of the disadvantages of a salary. My dad worked in construction for nearly 30 years and didn't take salary pay, even though he was a foreman. He knew what most people find out - if you take a yearly salary, they own you. Granted the advantage is when hours go down, you still get paid the same, plus there could be other benefits (like bonuses) depending on the situation.

I'm as pro union and pro rights as the next guy. Just be prepared for your AAA titles like Battlefield, Modern Warfare, Red Dead, GTA, and so forth to go up in price. Any expenses companies take from managing unions is passed directly to the consumer.

 

[-Dragmire-]

If they are salary employees, then yes. I have to agree with both you and him. Rather odd to get a job and then complain about the fact that you didn't get overtime pay ex post facto when you knew in the first place you wouldn't.

The grievances aren't due to crunch times in general. It's due to exceedingly unreasonable amounts of crunch time. If your development makes it so that you have to work 80+ hour weeks, on weekends, for 6 months straight, something has gone terribly wrong with your management. Shit hits the fan every now and again, a build collapses, code needs to be fixed ASAP, that's understandable. But these stories are not about that kind of crap, this is about the guy working on the "Dora the Explorer" video game in perpetual crunch time, and when the game eventually fails at retail the guy gets no bonuses that Pachter is so eager to tout.

There should probably be some kind of official government enforced limit to how long "crunch time" can last. It can be different per medium but a 5 year production shouldn't have a 1.5yr crunch time. This would allow devs to maintain a salary based work plan but not abuse it.

 

[RaikuFA]

you know its all gonna change once someone dies from exhausion

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

Perhaps he should get a new job, because being an "analyst" for video games certainly doesn't warrant anything above minimum wage, right?

*pulls out dartboard*

As Jumplion stated above, this sort of corporate behavior has to stop. Amongst a slew of problems, overworked and exhausted employees do not exactly perform the best. Crunch time? Seriously, that is when you need everyone working at maximum efficiency (as opposed to just working to put in the time and get whatever done and only done), not underpaid, overworked, and utterly demoralized.

 

[TheEggplant]

When he non-answered someone concerning the Ubisoft always on DRM Pachter showed his true colors. He seems to be a "Money is only for the Rich" type, and the rest of us should be grateful for the scrapes we are given. This current opinion comes as no surprise.

 

[Omnific One]

There should be a law that limits the hours a salary employee can work because obviously in this industry salary = exploitation.

There should be a law that limits the hours Pachter can make incorrect statements because obviously in this industry, stupidity = high-paying analyst gigs.

 

[mjc0961]

Okay, so what about all the employees who worked but don't get a bonus because they couldn't handle being used as slaves and left? And what if the game doesn't do well so nobody gets a bonus? No, the bonus thing needs to end and just be replaced with overtime for these people. Maybe it would also help some of these game studios get their shit together in terms of management because they can't manage to pay everyone 70 hours of overtime for 18 months.

Also, this is coming from some guy who is basically the Miss Cleo of video games. Call him now for your free readin' to see what obvious thing he has to say next! Maybe he should go try a job that would require him to do some actual work and then be forced to work 110 hours a week for 18 months and see if he still think he should just suck it up and not complain.

"The cool thing about this industry is, if you're good, you'll make a ton of money."

Mr. Industry analyst, you know how many GREAT games get made and make next to nothing?
This is just a stupid statement sir and if you believe it, you spit on Okami and many other wonderful games that didn't make a "ton of money".

Okami wasn't a wonderful game, it was a bad game with horribly broken controls that didn't deserve to make a ton of money. I know you people really love your "cult classics" when you have one, but remember that they're usually that way for a reason: because they aren't particularly good games. And Okami is even worse than the usual cult classic. I don't even see how people can defend this game, it's not even an opinion based thing. The controls flat out don't work most of the time, making the game extremely frustrating, unenjoyable, and it even borders on unplayable in some sections. That makes it a flat-out undeniably bad game, not just a decently made game that at least works but some people like and some don't.

 

[The Virgo]

You know why Mr. Patcher can say what he said? Look at him. You can tell that he hasn't worked a full 40-hour week in his life, or at least not in the past 20 years ... or more!

He has the nerve to say that because he drives around in a brand new Mercedes Benz and live in a posh house, all paid off, and make oodles of dollars a year to sit around in an office and say that people who do ACTUAL WORK 110 hours a week (out of 168 hours that are in a week total) "Have no business complaining about working unpaid overtime hours during crunch time and if they don't like it, they should find another job."

Fuck this asshole! Make this dude work 110 hours a week without getting paid extra and we'll see how much he likes it!

 

[bushwhacker2k]

Not jumping specifically on either side of the fence but-

Off the top of my head, if people have too many working hours that are unpaid, perhaps you shouldn't set the release date so optimistically? I mean I'm not saying things are set-in-stone, but sometimes things just aren't gonna work out.

But that ties in with how I hate constant releases of dime-a-dozen 60$ pre-order titles, with little no to risks or innovation. I hate mercantilism >_>

---

Also, overtime is one thing, but any reason for not getting paid overtime kinda passed me... why would that be okay? ... Though on the other hand it seems like it'd make more sense to pay people for milestones in development, rather than hourly, which would make them want to draw out the time.

 

[DP155ToneZone]

This guy is a fucking wanker.

Here're some more of his pearls of wisdom.

 

[rabidmidget]

Just because it's a reality in the industry doesn't mean it should be!

I have always thought this guy was kind of a douche, but I find this just plain aggravating.

 

[notimeforlulz]

The game industry has a few problems that only a union can fix. Attitudes like this are just justifying why talented people leave this industry.

I hate to say it but I agree with Pachter... There are a number of salary jobs where people work insane work hours without overtime. If they don't like it, they get another job.

Which is illegal. The choice between your job and not working for no money is unacceptable.

Game industry contracts also commonly violate intellectual property laws so that the company doesn't have to worry about their employee making a hit title in their own time and becoming rich off it.

Read what I just wrote again, and then figure out why I went from commercial game programmer to indy programmer/coffee barista.

I can actually deal with the low pay and required overtime, I just can't deal with a contract that stops me from getting monetary reward out of the personal time I put into developing my skills or have any possibility of financial independence.

EDIT: I got about $150 of non monetary bonuses in the 2 years and 3 projects I worked on while I was still in games. I did about $2000 unpaid overtime. Bonuses don't balance it out, but as I've said earlier, I didn't become apprehensive about working in the games industry because of overtime, more because I wouldn't be allowed to do what I loved in my own time.

 

[Formica Archonis]

Wanna make good money programming? Go into the financial sector. 9-5 job, good money, stable.

Wanna work for a dick like Pachter? Go into game programming, where crunch time starts the day before you hear about what project you're working on and you'll probably get downsized the minute the product goes gold, conveniently before any bonus manifests.

 

[Goldeneye1989]

*waits for extra credits to rip him a new one*

 

[RvLeshrac]

I don't actually care what he said, I'm just here to ask everyone to please, PLEASE stop quoting Pachter. He has the insight of a rock; the analytical power of a week-old radish. He's never right. About anything. I'd be surprised if he had his shoes on the proper feet.