Palworld - Pokemon with guns.

[CriticalGaming]

He,
just think about how much money could be had for porting the actual Pokemon games for PC in a timely manner. But instead a half decent clone with some added gimmicks takes that market.

Palworld's success is a direct result of people wanting an online multiplayer pokemon game and Gamefreak being a bunch of dumbasses for not doing it.

Palworld is not exactly pokemon because it's mostly a survival game with pokemon in it. But it's close enough that it's scratching an itch that people obviously have wanted for a long time.

I played with a friend this weekend and we put 18 hours into the game because we just kept wanting to do more and more within the game. And this is coming from a much smaller studio with a lot less funding than GameFreak who can't even make a decent Pokemon mainline game over the last 10 fucking years. Laziness and the lack of competition breeds complacency.

 

[Chimpzy]

Really the fact that Nintendo hasn't nuked them kinda implies there is no copywrite violation. We all know that Nintendo is the most litigious game publisher around and as far as I know there hasn't even been a peep from them.

You can rightfully argue that Pokemon does not own sole rights to, say, "an ice wolf", but there's more to a design than just the basic concept. This isn't like, say, Digimon, where the mons can have a similar base but also a clearly distinct design style. Palworld is imo blatantly copying Pokemon's design style, with many Pals created to resemble one or more Pokemon but just legally distinct enough to ward off a lawsuit. I mean, the Palworld dev's c-suit has pretty much publicly stated his intent to use AI to do just that and to 'solve copyright issues'.

So I'd say Nintendo not suing (yet) actually implies they're not sure enough they'd win the case because of this nebulous gray area that AI generated content has created, and if they lose that case, it could open the floodgates for more AI generated knockoffs of their IPs.

 

[CriticalGaming]

You can rightfully argue that Pokemon does not own sole rights to, say, "an ice wolf", but there's more to a design than just the basic concept. This isn't like, say, Digimon, where the mons can have a similar base but also a clearly distinct design style. Palworld is imo blatantly copying Pokemon's design style, with many Pals created to resemble one or more Pokemon but just legally distinct enough to ward off a lawsuit. I mean, the Palworld dev's c-suit has pretty much publicly stated his intent to use AI to do just that and to 'solve copyright issues'.

So I'd say Nintendo not suing (yet) actually implies they're not sure enough they'd win the case because of this nebulous gray area that AI generated content has created, and if they lose that case, it could open the floodgates for more AI generated knockoffs of their IPs.

I'd also argue that the game as a whole is different enough from Pokemon that you can't grasp enough to sue off of. "Pokemon with guns" is actually quite the false equivalency to call the game. While yes some Pals can use guns, these are few in number and are usually based off a cooldown and special item craft. The core of the game is a survival game where the Pals you gather are used to automate things you need for survival. For example the Grass Monkey can spit out seeds to sow your garden, the water lizard will water the garden and the fire fox will cook the food you grow.

You also have to have a base with amenities for the Pals, like a hotspring and beds for everybody so they can relax and chill.

You base will often get raided by angry Pal's or just poachers, they can burn your base down, kill your pals, etc and you gotta make sure you can stop it.

The Pokemon aspects are actually fairly limited to the collecting of pals. Which is a rather superficial gameplay mechanic and it's certainly not the first game where you collect monsters in.

 

[Worgen]

You can rightfully argue that Pokemon does not own sole rights to, say, "an ice wolf", but there's more to a design than just the basic concept. This isn't like, say, Digimon, where the mons can have a similar base but also a clearly distinct design style. Palworld is imo blatantly copying Pokemon's design style, with many Pals created to resemble one or more Pokemon but just legally distinct enough to ward off a lawsuit. I mean, the Palworld dev's c-suit has pretty much publicly stated his intent to use AI to do just that and to 'solve copyright issues'.

So I'd say Nintendo not suing (yet) actually implies they're not sure enough they'd win the case because of this nebulous gray area that AI generated content has created, and if they lose that case, it could open the floodgates for more AI generated knockoffs of their IPs.

Except that Nintendo would have already nuked them if they thought the designs were anything more then derivative. Nintendo doesn't own the idea of an icewolf, just their own version of one and as long as pals isn't taking assets then they are fine.

What they did or didn't do with ai is a bigger question since ai could have been copying copywrited work, but also, you can't copywrite anything that only ai has done. If the pal company did use ai to make everything then they don't really own it either, no one does.

 

[Chimpzy]

Except that Nintendo would have already nuked them if they thought the designs were anything more then derivative. Nintendo doesn't own the idea of an icewolf, just their own version of one and as long as pals isn't taking assets then they are fine.

What they did or didn't do with ai is a bigger question since ai could have been copying copywrited work, but also, you can't copywrite anything that only ai has done. If the pal company did use ai to make everything then they don't really own it either, no one does.

My guess is took the basic descriptions of Pokemon, and fed these to an AI, telling to make an anime style cartoon creature matching that description (or maybe just telling it to make a Pokemon). And since AI can only work with what already exists, they ended up with remixed versions of Pokemon. For example

"a anime-style cartoon creature that is a yellow and red rodent with a tail in the shape of a lightning bolt"


"a anime-style cartoon creature that is a firebreathing lizard with a flame at the tip of its tail"


"a anime-style cartoon creature that is a green amphibian with a flower bulb on its back"


"a anime-style cartoon creature that is a chubby blue turtle with a long curly tail"


I kinda messed up on the third one because it should've been teal and not green, but let's be honest here, they still all ended up obvious expies of Pokemon i.e. Pikachu, Charizard, Venusaur and Squirtle. It even added details I didn't specify because the Pokemon has them like the red cheeks on Not-Pikachu, the wings on Not-Charizard, the pink flower on Not-Venusaur, and the brown shell on Not-Squirtle.

 

[CaitSeith]

Except that Nintendo would have already nuked them if they thought the designs were anything more then derivative. Nintendo doesn't own the idea of an icewolf, just their own version of one and as long as pals isn't taking assets then they are fine.

What they did or didn't do with ai is a bigger question since ai could have been copying copywrited work, but also, you can't copywrite anything that only ai has done. If the pal company did use ai to make everything then they don't really own it either, no one does.

That means anyone can make a Palworld clone with the same assets, and Pocket Pair wouldn't be able to stop them.

 

[Worgen]

My guess is took the basic descriptions of Pokemon, and fed these to an AI, telling to make an anime style cartoon creature matching that description (or maybe just telling it to make a Pokemon). And since AI can only work with what already exists, they ended up with remixed versions of Pokemon. For example

I mean if they were using ai for concept art then only rendered it themselves then I think they do own the copywrite at least of the 3d, still not the concept art. But, if they used ai to make the models, or textures without human interaction then they don't own the assets.

That means anyone can make a Palworld clone with the same assets, and Pocket Pair wouldn't be able to stop them.

Depends on what was made with ai. Nothing ai does without human hands can be copywritten. The prompt used doesn't count. If you make an ai pic then you go over it and fix it up, you only own the parts you fixed. Not sure how it works if you just put a filter over the whole image. So much of this needs to go through the courts, but right now, ai can not get a copywrite on anything by itself.

 

[FakeSympathy]

CEO of Palworld dev says he's seen death threats, asks people not to slander the artists working on the game

Takuro Mizobe previously dismissed comments comparing Palworld and Pokemon

www.gamesradar.com

Because making death threats has worked SO WELL in any industry! /s

 

[CriticalGaming]

CEO of Palworld dev says he's seen death threats, asks people not to slander the artists working on the game

Takuro Mizobe previously dismissed comments comparing Palworld and Pokemon

www.gamesradar.com

Because making death threats has worked SO WELL in any industry! /s

Must be a day that ends in y.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

Palworld is the 5th most played game on steam, which is insane considering the game is also on Gamepass.

Most Steam PC players probably don’t want to pay for Gamepass, and I don’t blame them.

 

[Samtemdo8]

I'm amazed this isn't on mobile let only started off as a mobile game product.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

I just remembered that a teenage me, probably close to 10 years ago, once made a thread on here about how to change up Pokemon, and as an EXAMPLE, I said what if they made Pokémon a third person shooter. And y'all ripped me apart for it, WHO'S LAUGHING NOW?!?

But seriously,

My guess is took the basic descriptions of Pokemon, and fed these to an AI, telling to make an anime style cartoon creature matching that description (or maybe just telling it to make a Pokemon). And since AI can only work with what already exists, they ended up with remixed versions of Pokemon. For example

"a anime-style cartoon creature that is a yellow and red rodent with a tail in the shape of a lightning bolt"
View attachment 10497

"a anime-style cartoon creature that is a firebreathing lizard with a flame at the tip of its tail"
View attachment 10498

"a anime-style cartoon creature that is a green amphibian with a flower bulb on its back"
View attachment 10499

"a anime-style cartoon creature that is a chubby blue turtle with a long curly tail"
View attachment 10500

I kinda messed up on the third one because it should've been teal and not green, but let's be honest here, they still all ended up obvious expies of Pokemon i.e. Pikachu, Charizard, Venusaur and Squirtle. It even added details I didn't specify because the Pokemon has them like the red cheeks on Not-Pikachu, the wings on Not-Charizard, the pink flower on Not-Venusaur, and the brown shell on Not-Squirtle.

I think the AI conversation is a little overblown at this point. The game was revealed well before AI image generators were good enough to make more than just shitty Minions memes.

One of the most blatant ripoffs in the game is the dollar store Lucario. And it was present in their trailers as early as 2022. That doesn't mean that no designs were created with AI, but the timing means that majority of pals were likely created with minimal to no AI involvement. Unless the majority of all character design, game design, modelling, animation, and sound effects were all crammed into the last year of this game's development.

But let's say AI tech came out, the devs leaped for joy, and immediately started using it for this game to pump up the number of pals they already had. I still don't think it would have been that useful for them, even assuming the tech back then was as good as it is now.

For one, these are 2D images. The examples you attached would not at all stand up to being made 3D as is without someone making adjustments. Maybe you could prompt the generator to give you a full isometric view to mitigate this, but I don't know how well that would go. The adjustments could be as minor as removing the extra toe on your Squirtle and as major as completely rethinking the design because the proportions don't make any sense in 3D.

There's the issue of art style as well. I wouldn't say the Pals look particularly amazing, but they at least look consistent. With AI, I don't think you can guarantee that consistency. Your Pikachu is way too different from the other three, and even then the three look like they could come from different franchises.

But I think more importantly, and very well exemplified by what you generated, this AI stuff is way too close to Pokémon. The devs clearly had no qualms with copying homework, but I'm sure they did their very best to ensure that they never crossed the line. 3 years and thousands of dollars were at stake after all. And even if they did take these lawsuit-risking designs and reworked them enough to be legally distinct, then well... It's not really AI generated anymore is it?

In summary, I think using AI generated Fakemon is more of a hassle than just manually ripping off Pokemon yourself.

Yeah there's clearly a lot be discussed for this topic. I don't at all doubt that in some way, AI was used in the creation of this game. However I dispute just how much people seem to think it was involved. But how much is too much? Should game dev be completely devoid of AI? What level of usage of AI is acceptable? Once people get over their irrational love/hate of Pokemon in relation to this game, I think there will be some real discourse happening.

 

[CriticalGaming]

snip

I think the real sad nail in the coffin is the animation rigging for all these models. Every Pal has a working animation, a sleeping animation, an eating animation, a getting petting animation, death animation, every attack has a different animation. Fucking Pokemon doesn't have any of that shit. The billion dollar franchise looks like dogshit compared to a budget indie game on every level and that's fucking really dumb.

If I were Gamefreak and Nintendo, I'd be fucking embarrassed.

 

[Chimpzy]

If I were Gamefreak and Nintendo, I'd be fucking embarrassed.

Speaking of them

Just a rumor from some dude, of course, but maybe we'll get to see if they can do better

 

[FakeSympathy]

The drama continues! Pokemon Company responding and turns out some people are making shit up to make the game look as bad as possible?

I am starting to see how toxic pokemon fanbase can be

 

[CriticalGaming]

Speaking of them

Just a rumor from some dude, of course, but maybe we'll get to see if they can do better

I'm gonna call bullshit on this, because people have been calling them out for lazy pokemon games since fucking X/Y and they've only gotten worse since.

 

[meiam]

The drama continues! Pokemon Company responding and turns out some people are making shit up to make the game look as bad as possible?

I am starting to see how toxic pokemon fanbase can be

imo the pokemon company response sound more like them asking people to stop contacting them about it.

 

[FakeSympathy]

Also, assuming these Pokemon stans are the same people who are complaining about "animal cruelty" in Palworld, that's filthy rich coming from their games being all about putting creatures for a fight, experimental breeding, drug application to enhance their performance, trading them off like properties, all for their entertainment.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I keep hearing "Pokémon with guns" but c'mon, guys, "Hokeymon" is right there.

Also, assuming these Pokemon stans are the same people who are complaining about "animal cruelty" in Palworld, that's filthy rich coming from their games being all about putting creatures for a fight, experimental breeding, drug application to enhance their performance, trading them off like properties, all for their entertainment.

Not to mention that all this is done utilizing prepubescent children sent out into the wild with absolutely no supervision. At least Palworld's human characters are old enough to have tits or beards.

 

[BrawlMan]

​