Patriotism isn't all bad?

[OctoH]

Nothing wrong with loving your country as long as you can admit when it fucks up. I learned that after coming to America. I love my home country, but at the same time I look back and say, "Well shit. They really do this sort of thing better." On the same token I also find a lot a things done in America to be rather silly. As long as you keep a good perspective and are not blindly nationalistic, I do not see what is wrong with being patriotic.

 

[Sovvolf]

Loving your Country or even defending it under criticism isn't a bad thing. I love Briton for all its flaws and I'd defend it, though I can still admit its flaws.

However sadly patriotism is when you go a little too far with it. Patriotism is often used as a justifications for the crimes and prejudice of the ignorant.

 

[Frankster]

A bit of nationalism is fine, it's good to take pride in your countries' accomplishments and its history, the problem is when there is too much of it and it completely distorts your world view, its history and understanding of the world overall.

Recent example from a recent thread: Americans honestly thinking that dday was more important in defeating germany then operation barborossa. I wish I was making that up.

 

[bombadilillo]

Been said a lot, but BLIND patriotism is the problem.

People ***** about the "Blame America first" people. But damnit, the country does/did some shitty things.

Be proud of your country sure. But to pretend you are the GREATEST BEST MOST PERFECT NATION GOD EVER GAVE MAN is just insane ignorant and wrong.

 

[Pumpkin_Eater]

As a rule patriotism is a good thing. Many, probably most, people don't understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism, which is why it's become a dirty word in some circles.

 

[Greni]

To me patriotism is a loose end of the insanity spectrum where people praise something without being directly, or hell, even indirectly involved. Allow me to elaborate: Being proud of one's race, gender, religious institution, history, continent, or what's more common in this day and age, one's generation is completely lacking any logic.


What's the point of standing on the sidelines acting like a teenage cheerleader for a team that has no opponent. Sure they might pound you in the locker room afterwards, in fact I'm pretty sure they will. But will you feel any better for it, or just a massive prostitute that accepts an ejaculation to the face as proper payment, willing to gobble down more if only for the sheer joy of feeling involved.


I did not personally rape and kill the French settlers and sell captured Irish on the infamous Danish slave markets. Nor did I have anything to do with the foundation of the original Althing. Leaving me not at all entitled to be particularly proud or ashamed of those shenanigans. I was simply not involved.

I do feel ashamed though of my countries' (in name only) current affairs, ashamed that my country was hijacked by a few elites some years back, ashamed that the sock puppet of a prime minister we had, at the time supported the massacre in Iraq, and later backed up NATO's attacks on civilians in Libya, ashamed that the big business bosses (at least relatively big compared to the country) that basically caused the bankruptcy of the country's economy are still roaming free in some other countries living the good life, stashing away large amounts of money here and there, uninterrupted and unharmed by the damage they caused.

Everything I love about the country has nothing to do with the government or the people that live here. In fact I think it would be much better for it. The clean air, the mountains, the flora and wildlife that can be found even in the most remote locations. To quote Watchmen: "So tell me, how could all of this be greatly improved by an oil pipeline? By a shopping mall?"

Forgive my cynicism but in my view patriotism is the bastard child of thoughtless pride and blind loyalty. It makes people forgiving of unspeakable atrocities committed by your country, it makes people make up excuses in defense of their countries. It strips away any hint of doubt, leaves you blissfully ignorant and helps keep the status quo. It makes you an enabler.

 

[jamart]

Patriotism isn't an inherently bad thing I believe.
The issue, however, it's its meaner sibling Nationalism - that is when s**t hits the fan

 

[Mr. Eff_v1legacy]

I see nothing wrong with being patriotic. People seem to think that if one is patriotic, they think they're better than everyone else. I don't see it that way. My being proud of the country I'm from, in which I've been given a good life, doesn't invalidate anyone else's patriotism.
I'm proud of being Canadian, just as I am proud of being Scottish. Do they conflict? No. I love being both.

 

[Jumpingbean3]

Patriotism is fine in moderation. It helps strengthen you and give you something to fight for in hard times. However, too much patriotism leads to things like denial or the idea of sacrificing the survival of your country for it's supposed glory.

 

[DropHouse]

Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real estate above principles. ~George Jean Nathan

Patriotism, like just about all things can be great but I agree with all who have suggested that it can become harmful and dangerous when taken to its extreme.
As a Brit I'd have to say that our weather is an unfortunate argument against patriotism, but other mannerisms of this country can more than make up for it and inspire an almost irrational sense of pride when necessary mental connections are made.

Tolerance is one particular mannerism of the UK I am particuarly fond of, Tolerance that allows people to judge people as equal independant of race or gender or dissability, and for the most part a tolerance of religion that does not inspire athiests to believe that we as a country suck of the "Schlong" of the church. On the topic of war, differnet churches will have there own opinions on you cant collectively group "the church" as one great big organisation, The Westboro baptists idiots will "thank God for dead soldiers" whilst Quakers (as would many other denominations) I believe have on the whole considerably more reasonable pacifist ethics. To be honest I think it is quite sensible many churches not utterly renouncing war whilst in many cases I agree with them calling it wrong ( http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article805493.ece ) I wouldnt call it necessarilly always wrong and nor would most of the church e.g. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/dachaulib.html and that is why I would agree with Rome and Canterbury not making a black and white clear anti war statement

 

[Mr.PlanetEater]

Mild Patriotism is fine, its Jingoism that is dangerous.
Edit: Probably should mention there is a difference, look them both up if you have to.

 

[Hedonist]

I think Americans are a lot less cautious with Patriotism than Europeans because America hasn't had a lot of problems with nationalism and fascism. Because let's be honest, patriotism is just a positive spin on nationalism.

 

[Blaster395]

By my standards the UK has terrible human rights.

Along with that faith schools should be banned. Basing your morality on a guess that there is some form of punishment or reward after you die is not a good idea.
Faith schools only serve one purpose, to indoctrinate young people before they have the judgement to distinguish right from wrong. When your 7 or 8 you cannot question your parent saying "Don't run in front of a moving train" because you would die, therefore, you do not question anything and accept everything they say as truth. This has a habit of making indoctrination extremely easy.

 

[Nimcha]

Hah, patriotism is almost a swear word around here. Taking pride in something is frowned upon. Even when the national football team reaches the World Cup final and the whole country gets excited, there's still this undertone that the team doesn't deserve to be there.

Ironically it's one of the reasons I don't like my country as much as I used to.

 

[Wadders]

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel
-Samuel Johnson

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel
-Samuel Johnson

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious - Oscar Wilde

OT: There's nothing wrong with a bit of Patriotism tbh.Having said that I'm struggling to think of reasons why I should love Ireland at this moment in time

oooh well aint we clever quoting people *pats on back*

snip

Pubs for the win!

Where would we be without them! In my area if there were no pubs, there would be literally nothing to do. As you point out, they are pretty much THE social hub. With beer. Cant argue with that

I love Britain too.

It can be total shit, but I still love it. I love the county where I'm from (Shropshire) we have beautiful countryside that's a pleasure to live in. I also love pubs, my local town has a bout 5 of them, a lot for a small place so there's plenty of choice, and most of them brew their own beer and ale!

I love the diversity we have here. Some parts of it are not great obviously, like working class people who struggle every day or a minority of Muslim headcases, but the diversity of races, accents, dialects (what remains of them anyway) is brilliant. Obviously other countries are diverse too, but we have been a diverse place for 1000's of years, a bit of a mixing pot really.

I also love our Armed Forces and support them no matter what. I'm glad to say that these days it seems like people are really getting behind our servicemen and women instead of damning them all for baby killers or whatever, and that makes me happy. Our military history is very rich, and nothing makes me more proud of Britain than seeing the Lancaster, Tornado and Spitfire planes thundering across the skies on big occasions.

Also: Football. Our National Team is crap, lets face it, the are always over-hyped. However league football, from the Premiership down to village games, is awesome.

So yeah, there's a few things I love about where I live.

People say that patriotism is stupid, and it's foolish to be proud of something you have no part in creating, but I don't care. They just don't get it, simple as that.

One thing I hate is the weather. Went on holiday for a week in Spain recently. It was beautiful. Came home and it began pissing it down just outside of Manchester and barely stopped for 3 days. I actually felt sightly depressed, and just wanted to go live in Spain

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

Well no, patriotism on its own isn't bad at all. Neither is any other feeling you get--on its own. It's what action you take based on those feelings that make it "good" or "bad." I consider myself to be a pretty patriotic person when it comes to some things, but I never go around shooting gays or taking out my frustrations on the "unholy Spanish." There is just no excuse for that kind of behavior. Those sorts of people are less "patriotic" and more "bigoted and ignorant."

 

[Doitpow]

I have never...ever seen evidence to indicate patriotism could be a positive force.

 

[SillyBear]

Also, pubs. Pubs in Britain are wonderful. They are different from bars or clubs, in Britain more than other countries they are the social hub of the community (Less prominent in the middle class, but still) . True, I haven't been many times as I'm underage, but I go with my family sometimes and it's always enjoyable. The pub we go to supports the local band, will have many different sports on the tv for us to discuss or argue about. There are the regulars - people we always see there and are friends with just because we drink beer with them (me including, shh). I've recently met a man who left school early, got his qualifications in juvi (borstal) and now is slef employed and can do all sorts of jobs - every type of carpentry, mechanical things, pottery, you name it he's done the job. He has some pretty neat ideas, you might go as far to say philosophies. I love being able to meet these people and drink with them every time we go in. Every one looks after and knows one another in a pub.
That's probably my favourite British thing.

That's not an exclusively British thing. I'm English and I always thought it was, but Australians and New Zealanders do it even better than us.

 

[Slick Samurai]

When did patriotism become a bad thing? I'm not proud of my country, because I AM my country. My neighbors are my country. My government is my country. I don't care who we fight or what we fight for, my country is me and I will defend or assault who I see fit. I'm starting to wonder when people became so soft. When xenophobia was frowned upon. Loving your country more than any other is a trait seen so little these days.

I don't see whats wrong with seeing other countries as lessors to your own. From whatever country you're from, you should love it like family, and blood is thicker than water.

 

[SillyBear]

I have never...ever seen evidence to indicate patriotism could be a positive force.

Oh nonsense. Response after disasters, the will to fight and the will to protect are all things that are enabled and accentuated by patriotism. Japan's admirable and fantastic response after the earthquakes was largely due to patriotism. France's heroic defense of their country in WW1 was largely due to patriotism. Scotland defeating the English under the command of Sir William Wallace was largely due to patriotism.

I could go on and on for days here.

Patriotism and nationalism are very dangerous things and they can be awful forces of evil, but they can also do the opposite. They can bring people together who would otherwise be seperated. They can coordinate mass efforts of relief and defense. They unite different people together with a sense of community and culture.

Nothing in the world is solely negative. Patriotism is no exception.