Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Execs Don't Want Female Viewers

[Imp_Emissary]

I am actually mad enough to give a serious post. My favorite absolutely fantastic cartoons got axed for reasons because girls liked them. Is this the reason Johnny Test is still on the air?! Nobody likes that show and it stills runs while Young Justice, Symbiotic Titan and Green Lantern get killed off.

I'm done. I'm so fucking done. Stop the planet I want to get off.

Why do you/we who liked those shows have to go?

Spoiler: Dx Lets kick the other people off!

[https://imageshack.com/i/0ioikhp]
[sub]Not you Toilet. The people making these dumb choices.[/sub]

 

[The Great JT]

So...lemme get this straight. You cancelled an awesome series like Green Lantern: The Animated Series because girls were watching it. Obviously a guy said that, so I have this to say as a retort.

 

[Ishal]

"My Little Pony" also infamously gets a lot of attention for this. Basically IP holders don't generally want parents seeing 40 year old adults buying the same toys their kids want and creating that kind of atmosphere.

Oooooohhh I dunno about that. Not everyone will be operating under the "he's a potential pedo" mindset. I just recently took a stroll down the pink isle as I was doing some Xmas shopping to actually see what the MLP toys looked like. I'd never even considered buying anything, despite liking the show. To a parent, any guy could just be buying something for his kids or relatives. And even if he was wearing a shirt, that doesn't say much either. I've seen tons of dads wear stuff their kids like just to make them happy, not because they like it themselves. Only time I could see the suits caring is if Mom's suddenly complained about it en masse, and I don't see that happening. So the point is mute.

Politically speaking there is a tendency to try and say that girls only act and buy what they do because society conditions them that way. In reality girls and boys are wired differently, want different things, and act differently, without any real pressure from society.

Nature vs Nurture. Yep, we've all seen these before. I don't buy it, not completely. Genders are wired differently, but society definitely does play a role in these toys and cartoon shows. A girl does not have a gene coded to make her like barbie and MLP over something else. Anything trying to say otherwise will require significant citation of sources.

but I suppose there is some non-violent liberal hand wringing quota shows must adhere to or something to ensure heroes can't ever be taken too seriously.

Ahh.. bad writing. Seems to be a problem everywhere these days. If only we could go back to the time where guns and violence wasn't so looked down upon and heroes could kill with impunity. Shucks, those liberals ruin everything

So, sexism and preferrential treatment because plastic equals dollar signs?

I don't think I want to live on this planet anymore.

I'd seriously want to know how it is that this is considered the norm, when the opposite seems to be perfectly fine. Look at Hasbro handling of the MLP franchise!

I think a lot of it has to do with Hasbro giving the creative reigns to Lauren Faust when the show got off the ground. MLP is not a kids show, as people often mistake it for. It's an all ages show. Parents can watch it with their kids and not gouge their eyes out. It's a smart premise, and takes after something Walt Disney himself said. "If you aim for just kids, you're dead. Adults are just grown up kids anyway."

Because of this you have parents watching the show, bronies, and even little boys enjoying it and getting the merchandise ,too.

 

[Mr. Q]

Just reading this makes me think of the Zero Punctuation review of Neverdead where Yahtzee's idea to put an end to the retarded actions of gaming execs would be to go into their corporate offices with a big hessian sack and a group of day laborers armed with cricket bats. My version of that would be myself walking into the corporate offices of Cartoon Network carrying a dozen burlap sacks, a pair of razor sharp hedge clippers, a portable blow torch, and half a dozen Mafia members Italian businessmen armed with Louisville Sluggers.

As for what I have planned for the hedge clippers and blow torch, I'll leave that up to your imagination.

 

[Kittyhawk]

Not surprised by this news. Doesn't make me want to be pumped to enjoy anything else they make. Too much good stuff has been canned to forgive them. I think the problem here is that they are still banking heavily on toys, when what they should be pushing to girls is other merchandise besides toys. Sell girls the books, graphic novels and t-shirts. These could surely make up for the lack of toys sold.

The overlap of fandom for any show isn't anything to worry about, but I get why execs would worry. Fans at concerts go to see the band, not the band groupies, and while I can't speak for everyone, a certain degree of fan respect runs in fan circles, that transcends age. With a show like Escaflowne, many older fans would be into many other shows besides it.

I do miss Young Justice, because I usually dislike much DC stuff. Their loss, not mine.

 

[vid87]

I'm going to refer to another thread to suggest why perhaps girls don't buy those kind of toys:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125945-Six-Year-Old-Upset-By-Lack-of-Female-Friendly-Avengers-Toys

In short - it's because they're not making them.

 

[delroland]

Anyone have a link to those LEGO spaceships created from the girl LEGO sets?

 

[Neta]

Cancelling shows out of spite?

For the dishonor of Grayskull, Adora!

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Just...wow. I can't even wrap my mind around that. I find the girls' stories to be much more interesting because they're often different from "I watched my parents die," or "I need to prove myself," origin stories that boys get so often. But this? Holy crap...good job, Cartoon Network. I knew your shows were going downhill in quality for some time now, and now I know why. You're so narrow minded that you are crashing the train into the freaking walls.

Back to watching My Little Pony now. Take note of that, Cartoon Network.

 

[Lo Flying Frying Pan]

So we can't share our fun and games with other genders and age-groups? If you can't get the girls to buy the damn plastic crap, then maybe you should market it differently. Hell you can probably sell to both groups pretty well with a small dose of the forbidden "effort."

Superheroes and nerd-stuff has been a common bonding point between me and my nieces and nephews. It feels like my heart has been wrenched by mean old-minded dinosaurs of television saying that girls can't like what they like.

My nieces should be allowed to enjoy their superheroes and cartoons just as much as any boy could. It breaks my heart that they're meant to be prejudiced against liking Spiderman, Lightsabers and Tri-corders. When they show up, animated Justice League and Young Justice damn near burn a hole in my television. If the girls want to wear Lantern Rings while they play with their dolls, or wear Wonder Woman t-shirts while they watch Ponies ... I'll never complain, ever. Their uncle will never alienate them for it.

Race, gender and/or orientation should have no place in the celebration of fun and heroes.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Yikes, that's disheartening. I would have thought the response to getting a demographic you didn't expect would be to capitalize on it (look at what's happening with My Little Pony) instead of shrieking in horror and pulling the plug.

If they want girls to buy the toys maybe they should stop marketing the toys to boys and reinforcing the strict gender binary in children's products in general. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy: girls aren't interested in this stuff, so we won't market it to them, so they won't buy it, which means they're not interested in it.

Exactly.

When will execs learn?

My guess...

somewhere between never and... when I get a letter from Hogwarts... and it turns out to be a real place.

 

[likalaruku]

You know...I'll believe part of that. Gargoyles was cancelled after Disney discovered the show was more popular with adults than kids. It was probably for the best...Season 2 was so watered-down & kiddified. Maybe that's why Batman TAS & X-Men weren't on as long as they should have been.

The part about the toys is BS though; girls want them, but their parents are the ones with the money. Hasbro doesn't seem to give a shit that boys watch their pony show.

It's a good thing manga publishers don't work on that logic, or every shounen manga there is would get cancelled. Even TV tropes noted that shoujo manga sells poorly because most women don;t want to read fluffy tripe.

Dini's still on my shit list for how he ended Gotham City Sirens. A f**king cop-out for Harley & a very out-of-character moment for the Joker.

 

[Dr. Thrax]

Reading through this thread it seems like a bunch of manchildren and womanchildren are finding out for the first time that their Saturday morning cartoons are just advertisements for toys. Further, they are becoming angry that the cartoons are advertisements for boys' toys!

Of course, everyone else knows that and is unsurprised. It's not sexism or misogyny, it's just business. And I say this as a lover of comics, cartoons, and women!

"I'm not upset at this, so I don't see why you all are!"
That's really all I've gotten from your post.

Sexism and business aren't mutually exclusive, marketing a toy that both girls and boys can get (And are) interested in only to boys is sexist.
Why shouldn't we be upset that, as a society, we keep enforcing these binary gender roles of "Boys have to be boys, and girls have to be girls." Why can't a girl play with action figures and racecars and dinosaurs? All of the "cool" toys are marketed towards boys, while girls get frilly pink dolls and plastic stoves/ovens. Well, sorry Sally, but you gotta start learnin' early!

(That last sentence is a joke please don't kill me)

 

[likalaruku]

oh deary me. The sad economics of childrens TV. If it's a show aimed at kids the only reason it's produced is because they want to sell merchandise of it. And the market research says boys buy these toys and girls buy these toys.

I remember when in the transformers movie they killed off and brought in many new characters just to sell new toys (look up some interviews on it, its really quite fascinating).

Though it does get rather confusing if kids buy the toys they do because that is what they would want or if they are influenced by society. Kids are very impressionable, and adds are made to make them want things. It creates a kind of chicken and egg situation where it's hard to tell if things are the way they are because of natural preference or manipulation from the advertizements.

Apparently Sweden uses Gender Neutral advertising for toys. Until the concepts of feminine & masculine blur together, there will never be true equality.

 

[Dr. Thrax]

Reading through this thread it seems like a bunch of manchildren and womanchildren are finding out for the first time that their Saturday morning cartoons are just advertisements for toys. Further, they are becoming angry that the cartoons are advertisements for boys' toys!

Of course, everyone else knows that and is unsurprised. It's not sexism or misogyny, it's just business. And I say this as a lover of comics, cartoons, and women!

"I'm not upset at this, so I don't see why you all are!"
That's really all I've gotten from your post.

Sexism and business aren't mutually exclusive, marketing a toy that both girls and boys can get (And are) interested in only to boys is sexist.

Maybe some big business should put you in charge of merchandising and you will be able to run it better. Or maybe you'll see the sales data and come to a different conclusion.

In any case, it's not that I am not upset because I am unconcerned, I just think it's incredibly silly.

Way to go in missing the entire point of my post. No, really, congratulations.

Just because it's "business" doesn't mean it can't be sexist, and to think that "because business" excuses this stupid behavior and standard that we've created is asinine.

Captcha: smell that
Uhh, no thanks Captcha.

 

[major_chaos]

Honestly cartoon network has been getting worse and worse for years now, so this is disappointing rather than surprising. Also I feel the need to throw this out there even if it is a bit off topic: Level up is one of the most insultingly stupid things I have ever seen on TV.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

Interesting.

What I'm curious about here is how much of this was coming from CN and how much of it was from WB/DC. I may not always be a fan of every single program that CN airs but they seem to be much more open to broad appeal programming than an article like this would insinuate.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Yeah, it ticked me off pretty well when I read about this. My dissapointment in the industry is beyond words.

Bad enough female characters get shortpacked to hell and back when they do get made in series aimed at boys, sometimes it's a miracle they even get made. I look, curiously, now and then for the hell of it.
Some how or another we need to blur the lines. Or female characters need to be put into the girl's aisles like an oasis of not pink.

I mean it's not like toy companies aim purely at one gender for the most part. Hasbro does Marvel, and MLP.
Mattel does WWE, and Barbie.
Why they try so damn hard to segregate the genders is beyond me.