Payday 2 Dev Apologizes for Microtransaction Debacle

[Strazdas]

I see a patter emerge.

1. Introduce bad microtransactions - community is angry.

2. Apologize - community forgives

3. Introduce bad microtransactions - community is angry.

4. Apologize - community forgives

Holy shit, Overkill became the new EA.

Because at this point it's not POSSIBLE to remove them anymore? Nor would they hurt if they're done right (which, right now, they aren't. At all.)

Sure its possible. stop selling micro-transactions.

Microtransactions have no business being in paid games.

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
Team Fortress 2 (before it went F2P)
You were saying?

Microtransactions have no place in CS and in fact made it worse. Team Fortress 2 didnt have vast majority of its MT before it went F2P. BUt yes, no place.

The "no microtransactions"-statement was indeed stupid, but let's be honest with ourselves for a moment; how was Overkill supposed to keep a game over 2 years old fresh without getting money in? Back in the "Good Old Days" you bought a game once and then you had it, true, but nothing was added later, probably not because there wasn't anybody who said "gee, I sure love this game, wish there was more of the same.", but because the companies wouldn't, or couldn't, work for free. Then came the microtransaction, sometimes badly used, I agree, but it can also be used to keep games fresh, interesting, and a number of developers, testers, and designers in work.

there are things we call DLCs. Overkill was very much into producing them, far more than other studios.

 

[dreng3]

The "no microtransactions"-statement was indeed stupid, but let's be honest with ourselves for a moment; how was Overkill supposed to keep a game over 2 years old fresh without getting money in? Back in the "Good Old Days" you bought a game once and then you had it, true, but nothing was added later, probably not because there wasn't anybody who said "gee, I sure love this game, wish there was more of the same.", but because the companies wouldn't, or couldn't, work for free. Then came the microtransaction, sometimes badly used, I agree, but it can also be used to keep games fresh, interesting, and a number of developers, testers, and designers in work.

there are things we call DLCs. Overkill was very much into producing them, far more than other studios.

My point wasn't actually addressing DLC, it was about the microtransaction, the often hated and undervalued younger sibling. DLC is usually larger than a microtransaction by several orders of magnitude. The DLC is to the microtransaction as a cake is to a chocolate bar, grander, and usually better in every way, but what if I don't feel like eating an entire cake? What if I just want that quick, sweet rush instead? DLC and microtransactions are fundamentally different, and while I probably wouldn't mind if the latter disappeared forever I'm probably still gonna get it if I think it might entertain me for a bit, or add to the entertainment of the main product.

 

[Bindal]

A lot of horrible things were accepted in their time. Besides, why should it matter to me anyway?

Got also a fact or do you just say "Microtransactions are horrible because reasons"? Because that's what it sounds like.

Yeah the fact that you've decided to apologize and then do nothing means you don't care

And what should they do when nobody is even at the office? Right, they can't. Besides, no matter what they've done, YOU would have complained about it "not being enough" or "they didn't take any time" and given them the middle finger for that.
So, why should they bother about people like you in the first place that would have said nothing of value in any case?

Because at this point it's not POSSIBLE to remove them anymore? Nor would they hurt if they're done right (which, right now, they aren't. At all.)

Sure its possible. stop selling micro-transactions.

Yeah, no. It's not. After six weeks of them running and a lot of money flowing to several people, they can't just stop and remove them. If they just stop, new people will complain that they can't get that stuff anymore. If they just remove the payment, people that did pay will complain that they had to pay money and it's NOW free, after only a few weeks (and those people then also had the right to sue) and at this point, they can't just refund everything anymore. At all.
So, they go with the sensible option - keep them in and try to find a way so that they don't actually matter. Again, CS:GO is a perfect example how to add Microtrasactions into a paid game without actually having it affecting anything by making them purely cosmetic AND give a way to earn most of them for free (with only the rarest skins being behind the rather cheap paywall of 2$)

 

[RealRT]

A lot of horrible things were accepted in their time. Besides, why should it matter to me anyway?

Got also a fact or do you just say "Microtransactions are horrible because reasons"? Because that's what it sounds like.

Naming something horrible or not is an evaluation, evaluation is an opinion and opinions not necessarily have to be based on solid facts. But if you want an argument, I'd repeat what one wise and fat man said:
Microtransactions create a system of Have's and Have-Not's, which psychologically pressures the players into buying them. If the game is free to play, such is the price. You can't complain. If I actually paid for the damn thing, I want to be free of such psychological tricks.

And what should they do when nobody is even at the office? Right, they can't. Besides, no matter what they've done, YOU would have complained about it "not being enough" or "they didn't take any time" and given them the middle finger for that.
So, why should they bother about people like you in the first place that would have said nothing of value in any case?

Him and people like him not being happy with them in any case is their own fault.

Yeah, no. It's not. After six weeks of them running and a lot of money flowing to several people, they can't just stop and remove them. If they just stop, new people will complain that they can't get that stuff anymore. If they just remove the payment, people that did pay will complain that they had to pay money and it's NOW free, after only a few weeks (and those people then also had the right to sue) and at this point, they can't just refund everything anymore. At all.
So, they go with the sensible option - keep them in and try to find a way so that they don't actually matter. Again, CS:GO is a perfect example how to add Microtrasactions into a paid game without actually having it affecting anything by making them purely cosmetic AND give a way to earn most of them for free (with only the rarest skins being behind the rather cheap paywall of 2$)

Well then they should just stick to their guns and keep their mouth shut and own up to the fact that they are cheap and lying bastards instead of offering half-hearted non-apologies while doing nothing to fix what they have broken.

 

[Frankster]

They can apologize all the want, but until I get an option to opt out of those retarded cancer ridden prenium crates that shoved itself into the end of mission rewards then Im still gonna be a sore over this, and my interest in Payday 2 has dwindled accordingly.

Worst part is I finally got some friends to give Payday 2 a try like a week before this happened.. And im unsure what to tell them when these total newbies who are still working on unlocking most of the various mods and gizmos get a friggin crate as their end of heist reward.

Overkill, I am disappoint.

 

[Strazdas]

Because at this point it's not POSSIBLE to remove them anymore? Nor would they hurt if they're done right (which, right now, they aren't. At all.)

Sure its possible. stop selling micro-transactions.

Yeah, no. It's not. After six weeks of them running and a lot of money flowing to several people, they can't just stop and remove them. If they just stop, new people will complain that they can't get that stuff anymore. If they just remove the payment, people that did pay will complain that they had to pay money and it's NOW free, after only a few weeks (and those people then also had the right to sue) and at this point, they can't just refund everything anymore. At all.
So, they go with the sensible option - keep them in and try to find a way so that they don't actually matter. Again, CS:GO is a perfect example how to add Microtrasactions into a paid game without actually having it affecting anything by making them purely cosmetic AND give a way to earn most of them for free (with only the rarest skins being behind the rather cheap paywall of 2$)

No, what you are saying is that it is not "not possible" but they "dont want to", in which case they are being completely dishonset in this apology. If thook any of the choices you mentioned people that bought them does NOT have the right to sue. the only way they would is if the company were to simply take these items away without compensation. allowing others to get them for free is NOT grounds for suing. And yes, i think they should refund everyone. yes, its going to cost them a lot of money. GOOD. maybe next time they will think before introducing microtransactions.

clearly you never played CSGO if you think the rarest skins are costing 2 dollars. try like 200-2000 dollars.

 

[dreng3]

.

All of the download content for Payday 2 currently costs £81, Does that not count as more money in?

Sure, 81 bucks, which is about two new games when I'm just eyeballing it, for those money they need to develop said content, host servers, keep providing support for the game, finance holiday events, and so on and so forth. But again, that's DLC, not microtransactions.

.

Lying isn't worthy of an apology? Making promises you can't keep isn't worth an apology? Ignoring the fact you've lied and made promises you can't keep in the hope it will just go away isn't worth an apology?

And let's be fucking real here, Payday 2 is made by Overkill, published by 505 Games, who are a subsiduary of Digital Bros.

According to Digital Bros latest financial report:
"Pre-tax profit as at 31 December 2014 was 6,356 thousand euros, more than double the 3,051 thousand euros recorded during the same period of last year."

Now I'm not an accountant, in fact I know very little of finance. But to me, that doesn't sound like a company that's running out of money and needs to force microtransactions into games that had explcitly stated they wouldn't, in order to stay solvent.

Microtransactions of this kind are simply gambling. You put money in, you might get something good back, but you probably wont. It works the same way in practice and it satisfies the same urges. The only difference being that it's gambling you can sell to kids in the guise of video game content.

The practice of adding such microtransactions is ethically shady itself, when you take into account the facts that they promised not to and financially don't need to it boggles my mind that anyone can do the mental gymnastics required in order to defend Overkill/505/Digital Bros.

The apology rings hollow, and if they're not gonna change anything they shouldn't have apologized, so no, the apology is worth nothing.

I both disagree and agree on the point that microtransactions are gambling for kids. I disagree because the transactions still require a credit card or the equivalent, and because they're in a game rated what? Oh yeah, M for Mature. So if you're conducting a microtransaction in Payday you shouldn't really be a kid. Now here comes the point where I agree, parents can't, or won't, control their kids, so of course there will be children taking part in these transactions, but I wouldn't blame Overkill.

And those 6,3 million will go to developing new games and keeping the employees in work so I see no problem with that.
Not the first time I've boggled someones mind, but probably the time where it was the least appreciated.

 

[Bindal]

The apology rings hollow, and if they're not gonna change anything they shouldn't have apologized, so no, the apology is worth nothing.

Well, here is the funny thing: They ARE going to change things. It's just that everyone prefers to skip over that part of Overkills apology because it doesn't fit into their thinking.

 

[SJXarg]

They've managed to blow through the mountain of money from the March Hype Train event, AND all the money from the small hill of 5 dollar dlc released since? I guess that's how they intend to keep their promise from March to support Payday 2 for another 2 years, $2.50 at a time. I guess all the character packs and weapon packs weren't keeping the hookers and blow well-stocked.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Pretty sure they were going to anger their entire community who play regularly the second they added the microtransactions. They might have worked if Overkill weren't going back on their word that there "will never be microtransactions, shame on you for asking the question."

You can defend whether or not micropayments have a place in Payday 2 and perhaps they would have worked ordinarily, but the entire thing is fundamentally broken because of breaking that promise.

That is also the weakest apology ever made, holy shit. "Soz for how you don't like us adding microtransactions guys, now go back to grinding for chests yeah? We'll continue dancing around questions with the community later"

At least Vermintide came out as people in the role of the newest co-op only FPS as people were leaving Payday so it has a pretty solid playbase as they checked out that game instead. A loot system with zero microtransactions and if they're remotely aware of the market, I assume Fatshark has learned to not add microtransactions in the future at Overkill's expense.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Yeah, I read that on the regular Steam forums, where I've been fighting shit-heel sophistry and MT apologists since Shitfest 15' started.

As most folks (including the author, thank goodness) noted: Almir dodged the microtransaction issue entirely, AGAIN, choosing to focus on a bunch of other less relevant (and some totally irrelevant) issues instead.

I've reported his company (Overkill) to the Better Business Bureau, and FTC for false-advertising, and I strongly encourage anyone that bought the game to follow suit; regardless of however you feel on micro-transactions.
Because Almir lied to us. He lied to secure sales, and that is fundamentally, unacceptable.

Overkill had the chance to make amends, but have chosen, repeatedly, to ignore the issue because...well at this point either Almir is a fucking idiot, or he thinks all of us angry at the micro-transactions are just going to be stupid enough to forget.

May he and his company burn with their hollow promises and false apologies.

*spits* Fuck Overkill.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I'm inclined the forgive the company that has done so much right rather than hate for one thing they did wrong. But I wonder how much they understand the nature of the issue beyond "the players are unhappy". It's really two fold:

- Introducing microtransactions (MTs) into a full priced, heavily DLCd game (which I have no problem with, since these DLCs keep the game alive and grow it). In particular, one in which its developer went on record to say it would never happen.
- Just as importantly, having said MTs reward items with stat boosts. By having stat boost items come from these MTs makes the game P2W. Granted, it is a PvE game, but the definition of P2W is giving a player who spends RL money a clear advantage over one who does not. And this absolutely does that.

The "solution" of making drills available for free, albeit at such a low drop rate that one would be forgiven for wondering if they actually did, does slightly ameliorate the second point, but even then not by much. A player who spends no money on drills is a) extremely unlikely to get one, b) unlikely to find a skin useful to them and c) unlikely to get all the skins in any reasonable amount of time (past and spent). A player who does spend money can get skins quickly and in greater numbers.

Had they introduced these skins/safes/drills but not given them a stat boost, I for one wouldn't have given a shit whether I could get a drill for free or not. Being strictly cosmetic means players who choose to spend are doing so simply for a little individuality, customisation, fun, etc with no other motive. Had they kept the stat boosts but made both drills and safes available entirely free in-game (card drops, off shore or wallet), then I wouldn't have had an issue since everyone who plays can get the same stat boosts and those who play more (ie. get more card drops and money from heists) get more. That works too. But putting stat boosts behind a real money lucky-dip thing is horrendous and a disaster as evidenced by everyone's reaction.

The funny thing is that instead of hate and anger, Overkill could have done something amazing. During Crimefest, a week of giving us, the players, stuff, imagine if instead of this train wreck MT system this had happened: "Hi folks, We at Overkill have a surprise for you on Day 1. We've been hard at work implementing a weapon skin system for your favourite tools of the trade. As of today, you can find custom weapon skins as card drops, similar to existing mask patterns, colours and weapon mods. Enjoy!". If Overkill had announced that and given us weapon skins as just a new thing in the game (with or without stats), for free, alongside our custom masks, the player base (including myself) would have gone nuts...in a good way. We would have sung their praises, thanked them on forums, been assured there was still a developer who supported their game and playerbase by improving their game over time and kept us playing. Now, I'm 11-100 and haven't been on since Crimefest. Custom weapons and suits/outfits are things my friends and I have often asked "Wouldn't it be great if we could change/customise it?". Yes it would be...but that's not what happened :-\

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Ultimately, as a result of the whole thing, this is what I as a player (11-100, 460 hrs logged on Steam) am left with.

Before Crimefest, I had my icon to double click, start the game, mess with my build/loadout, hit crimenet and have fun with friends or randoms, do a couple of challenging heists, get some heist rewards, done.

Now, I have an icon that opens a microtransaction store...and I don't want to click on it. The game's title screen makes me sad now since I know what they put behind it.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

We apologise for making these changes, but we're going to continue to develop and cash in on them, so they expand to affect more of the game.

#sorrynotsorry

Well they can take their apology and shove it up their ASCII.