PC/Console gaming segregation

[Phrozenflame500]

It's console wars. Don't expect any kind of logic among the blind fanboyism and buyers remorse.

 

[TelHybrid]

Oh and for god sake... stop assuming every PC gamer is an elitist!

1. To be completely fair to the people who throw out those complaints, it's a little hard to stomach the "not-elitist" excuse when you turn around and see tons of forums flooding with people saying they refuse to buy a 2D platformer because it potentially runs at 30 FPS instead of 60. Not even a precision platformer like Super Meat Boy. It sucks that it might arbitrarily be locked because the development team just isn't that good with PC development, but 30 FPS is still perfectly playable on a PC.

2. Also, it's probably a bit of a persecution complex. Particularly in such PC-centric forums like The Escapist, it's a little obnoxious to see all of the constant complaints about how games get "dumbed down" because of the console market, as if the people who play on consoles are somehow stupider than the people who buy for PC. Something a lot of people don't seem to realize is that the complexity of the control scheme doesn't equal depth of gameplay.

3. I mean, if you want to get really pedantic here, you're encouraging the PC/Console segregation yourself by telling people to stop accusing PC gamers of being elitists while not telling people to stop accusing console players of being massive scrublords who need their hands held every thirty seconds.

4. Anyway, console wars are nothing new. PC getting roped into the mix pretty much just comes with the territory now that so many games are multi-platform. The most predominant cause of the behavior likely involves insecurity about one's purchases when they see that same product questioned extensively by random strangers, and they feel the need to justify their purchase of said product. Of course, you also have people who are inexplicably "loyal" to a certain brand, and I can't really explain that one since putting your "loyalty" in a big multi-million dollar mega-corporation just seems silly to me.

1. That's a thing?! I mean I'm fed up of PC ports being really poorly done as much as the next PC enthusiast (recently acquired GTA4 in a sale and it's awful on PC), but that's a thing? Holy crap!

2. To be honest that's more of a problem with the industry than the players. From a personal standpoint, I find it retarded if a developer doesn't make PC the lead development platform for a multi-platform game. It simple gets better results with PC as the lead (see Battlefield 3).

3. I've honestly not seen PC players accusing console players of that in a very long time, especially not on escapist.

4. Yeah... I learned the hard way that brand loyalty is stupid. I grew up playing on SEGA consoles. XD

 

[shrekfan246]

Snip

To clarify my position: You're perfectly entitled to avoid buying a game because it doesn't meet your standards. You're also perfectly entitled to bring the points that kept you from buying a game up when other people ask for recommendations.

But for the most part, people aren't going to be in the same situation where it's actually uncomfortable for them to play a game at 30 FPS. They're simply going to see that it's locked to that because the developer doesn't have a lot of experience, and they're going to rage and whine about it on forums and dissuade other people from buying what might be a perfectly good game otherwise. And that's what I have a problem with. Especially, as in the case of my original post, when it's a genre that doesn't hinge on precision gameplay in any form whatsoever. A 2D platformer that doesn't require lightning-reflexes and pin-point reaction time like Super Meat Boy or I Wanna Be The Guy doesn't require 60 FPS to play. Whether or not it's comfortable for the end-user is something they should determine for themselves, not because a whole bunch of other people started bitching about it on the internet.

In other words, if you can't play a game at 30 FPS, fine. Just don't frame your position like it's hard fact and nobody else should purchase a game if it doesn't run at 60, because you don't know if they'd be able to handle a framerate that you can't.

1. That's a thing?! I mean I'm fed up of PC ports being really poorly done as much as the next PC enthusiast (recently acquired GTA4 in a sale and it's awful on PC), but that's a thing? Holy crap!

Yup. And flame wars about FPS rage through here every now and then. Hell, I can see the sparks of one striking up in this very thread.

2. To be honest that's more of a problem with the industry than the players. From a personal standpoint, I find it retarded if a developer doesn't make PC the lead development platform for a multi-platform game. It simple gets better results with PC as the lead (see Battlefield 3).

I don't disagree, but when people start accusing things like Crysis 2 of being "dumbed down" because they put in keybindings for the nanosuit controls instead of making you open up the radial menu, I find it hard to sympathize. (And yes, that really happened too.)

3. I've honestly not seen PC players accusing console players of that in a very long time, especially not on escapist.

You haven't looked hard enough... though I do have to admit it's been slightly better the past few months.

4. Yeah... I learned the hard way that brand loyalty is stupid. I grew up playing on SEGA consoles. XD

I miss the Genesis/Megadrive...

 

[thiosk]

I don't let teenagers noisy opinions about which mega corporation they have chosen to deify dictate my PC hardware upgrade schedule.

neither should you.

 

[LAGG]

but 30 FPS is still perfectly playable on a PC.

I don't care for the best graphics, in fact I always run all games on the low or lowest possible graphical setting.
But saying 30 is perfectly fine? Not unless the game is very slow, like turn-based strategy or puzzles.

You can always go to this website http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/ and try these settings http://imgur.com/BqYgZz1 and see the difference.

 

[Miss G.]

"Which platform are you getting? PS4 or Xbone?"

"Oh I'm just building a new PC"

"GTFO!!! THIS IS A CONSOLE THREAD!!!"

What's the deal? I mean unless you're predominantly a Nintendo owner, most of the games you buy will be multi platform these days. Everyone owns some form of PC, some people add a couple of hardware upgrades for games, others buy separate devices for games. Some like to tweak and tinker with their games with mods, others like a hassle-free plug and play.

Oh and for god sake... stop assuming every PC gamer is an elitist!

They make it hard to believe that they're anything but, especially when they come talking about their PCs, sometimes in graphic detail, in threads that are specifically about consoles and not game platforms in general- as in, its not pertaining to them and they should've gathered that from the thread title. While I wouldn't have used an expletive or something to convey that, don't get mad at the people pointing out the obvious to them because, apparently, it was warranted.

I liken it to a scenario in which we are all pet owners on a site for such:

- I put up a thread about getting my first pet, a kitten, and set up a poll of my top 3 picks; Ragamuffin vs Himalayan vs Japanese Bobtail expecting some extra insight from people who have personal experience with and/or care about those specific cat breeds. At first, I get some nice poll results and some posts about general kitten care and specific needs for each breed, or advice from people who have all 3. I might even get posts on breeds that are very similar to them and may be more affordable/easier for a new owner to handle, so even though its not exactly what I asked for, its still good to know in case I can't get any of my top 3 for any reason. Things are going well. Then, sooner or later, a bunch of dog-owners come in and try to make the discussion about why dogs are so much better and can do so much in comparison (you know how this goes) or just "I'm not getting any of 'em, I'm getting a new puppy", as if I'd asked for their rather topically irrelevant opinions in response to my OP in the first place. Not only is their talk beside the point, but if I'd not received enough info for my decision by then, the whole thing will turn into a war, more than likely between two or 3 groups of long-time posters to the site (and more than likely gonna happen in this thread, too), and I'll be lucky if the conversation gets back to what I needed help with in a timely fashion.

The point is if I cared about _____, I would've asked about _____ and if its ok to assume everyone on the site can read English, they should know by my OP and/or thread title that I don't and I definitely didn't, but the conversation will probably shift in that direction at some point anyway.

EDIT, sorry for the long post but I needed to get this out, no more for me to say in regards to this thread:

Or even subtle stuff like:

"Oh this game is Xbox exclusive"

"But it's on PC"

"Still Xbox exclusive... it's Microsoft" <- by the way people with that logic are stupid.

If its on one console but still has a PC port, it is still considered a console exclusive when/because its available on that console and not the others. e.g Titanfall is on the 360, Xbone and PC, but still not on anything Sony or Nintendo, so as a console gamer (if I cared about FPS/multi-player/gritty realism) and wanted to pick it up, I'd have to get an Xbone (eww) or 360 (eww) to play that game, lending to its Xbox exclusivity. Also, Microsoft does count it as their exclusive, so it's kinda mean to call people stupid for saying such.

but if it is a console thread then why the fuck would you post about your pc? even if they may have a pc it's still a console thread so what drove you to start posting about your pc?

What the hell is wrong with a "neither" option on a thread? Why is it such a travesty to say "I'm building a PC instead of buying a new console?"

If the question didn't ask anything besides one console or the other(s), 'Neither' is a fine answer (doesn't really add much discussion value to the topic at hand, though) if you feel you absolutely must post something and the poll option is not there (though why that last part should matter is beyond me), but unless you're under duress, you can ignore the thread entirely. Its just like my site for pet-owners scenario; yes, its a site for pet owners and dogs are pets as well, but if the thread is about cats, unless you're talking about cats, your posts, even benign ones like "Well, I'm getting a puppy", are literally uncalled for.

PCs are used as gaming devices. This is a video game forum. Therefore, if people want to talk about their PC where relevant, and one's choice of gaming platform is pretty damn relevant, then why should one demographic get a big "fuck you"?

That isn't the problem. 'Where relevant' would be in general gaming threads that don't specify one platform or another. The likely reason why PC gamers get the flak is because they will more than likely post PC- related or elitist stuff in threads that don't concern their preferred platform when they could've done as I stated above and simply went about their business or discuss a console(s) if they happen to use one (or more) as a supplementary gaming platform(s). Likewise, if I see a PC-centric discussion, I don't jump in and expect to post about consoles without stirring up some kind of negativity, I go to one either pertaining to my platform of choice or a more general thread (like this one) and decide what to do from there.

 

[LAGG]

I don't disagree, but when people start accusing things like Crysis 2 of being "dumbed down" because they put in keybindings for the nanosuit controls instead of making you open up the radial menu, I find it hard to sympathize. (And yes, that really happened too.)

What? That's some nonsense from whoever said that then, because Crysis has quick commands for all powers and specific usages:

- Double tap Sprint (holding Forward): start running/swiming with super speed, can be used to perform 20m super jumps by running towards inclined rocks on the floor.
- Double tap Back: activate super armor.
- Double tap Melee: perfrom melee attack with super strenght.
- Double tap Jump: perform super jump using super strenght, something around 7m high.
- Double tap Attack (while carrying props): throw it using super strenght, soldiers and aliens would die on impact and knock others out, explosive barrels I think would explode on impact, not sure about that can't really remember.
- Double tap Duck: activate invisibility.

 

[Weaver]

The rest of us could care less if a game is 30 FPS or not. Is it really affecting the gameplay or the gaming experience?

To me it does. Does that make me wrong or a whiny PC elitist now?

This argument is basically "30 FPS is okay for me" and others going "30 FPS is not okay to me" and both sides shouting that eachother is wrong. This is a subjective thing and people need to learn that no one side is right or wrong in their preferences.

To me, using a mouse, 30fps causes a very noticeable input lag as the mouse position is only polled every 33.33 repeating milliseconds. This is much lower than the OS polls at and I can "feel" the lag. Again, it's a subjective thing. Others can't. I won't go on a crusade about framerates because I just don't give a shit enough .

 

[Bombiz]

because they are the ones who continually harp on about being the "Master Race"

The only PC gamers I've seen call them selves "the master race" do it sarcastically or jokingly.

Secondly, it's nice and all that PC Gamers can play games at their "optimal" settings, but another thing they fail to realize is that a lot (and by a lot I mean a vast majority)

Optimal settings is dependent on the person and their hardware. for most optimal just means getting the game to run at an ok frame rate whether or not its at 30 or 60. Even if that means lowering their graphics settings.

The rest of us could care less if a game is 30 FPS or not. Is it really affecting the gameplay or the gaming experience?

For some people yes having a game run at 30 FPS is affecting their gameplay. for some it's stuttery and jagged and ruins immersion.

 

[Thr33X]

There's no need to elaborate anything. If for whatever reason YOU deem is unpleasing then it's YOUR choice on whether or not it's worth YOUR time. However, just because it's YOUR opinion doesn't take away the fact that it's a snobbish opinion, based on the fact that a game could be aesthetically excellent in terms of story, gameplay or a myriad of other factors, but you'd dismiss it on something as trivial as framerate.

The message is loud and clear...however...it labels you as snooty. It is what it is.

Good to know. My preference is trivial and yours is not. I will give in and shell out my money for stuff I won't ever play because it stutters for me. Should I also start shelling out money for games with a FoV below 90 and just live with the fact that I get headaches after less than 30 minutes in such games.

And on a similar note, I dislike the Miami Heat because I dislike LeBron James. Fantastic player, pathetic personality in MY opinion. This is of course MY opinion, and it's a trivial opinion at that, but it's mine and I take no offense to anyone saying that it is, especially if they're a die-hard Heat fan and sling as many adjectives at me as possible.

So we're in fact one and the same except that I don't give a crap what people think of my opinion, trivial or not. And this is the problem with a lot of PC Nazis, they want their opinion to be the "be all-end all", when it's not...and never will be. Stick to your guns, but at the same time understand that just as you have your opinion, others have their and sometimes...just sometimes...they might conflict with you own. Doesn't make you right or me wrong, but the substance of said opinion on the other hand if can be called out, will be called out. Thus, balance is maintained.

 

[Foolery]

I own a PS2, Gamecube, PS3, 360, Wii, 3DS, PSP, and PC. Come at me bro. Seriously, who gives a fuck. Play what you like on what you like. Right now I'm playing Final Fantasy XIV on PC, with a PS2 controller. Any X system is better than other X system argument is fucking retarded. They all have positive and negative aspects.

As for PC elitists, hey guess what? You know that year or two upgrade that people really haven't had to do since 2005? Yeah, you can thank consoles for that. Not everyone wants to own or build a 1000 dollar piece of gaming hardware. And trust me, 1000 is about the right price for a well built gaming PC.

 

[Thr33X]

The only PC gamers I've seen call them selves "the master race" do it sarcastically or jokingly.

That's a common mechanism there that PC Gamers use to defend other PC Gamers, the same way a console fanboy's gonna defend his ilk. When it's said 90% of the time I've seen it, it's not followed by the atypical LOLs or J/Ks to imply it's a joke. I assume we're mostly adults or mature here on Escapist to know a troll post or troll comment on YouTube when we see it. Sorry, but I'm not buying that for a million dollars.

Optimal settings is dependent on the person and their hardware. for most optimal just means getting the game to run at an ok frame rate whether or not its at 30 or 60. Even if that means lowering their graphics settings.

Subjective as this may be, to the ENTIRETY of console gamers, it's not an option that can be used, hence not of their concern, and realistically in the eyes of a console gamer who takes what's given to them pretty much, the whole issue with graphics and framerates and so on sounds ridiculous...it sounds ridiculous coming from console players who complain about it as well, so nobody should feel too sensitive about it.

For some people yes having a game run at 30 FPS is affecting their gameplay. for some it's stuttery and jagged and ruins immersion.

For some, immersion simply needs to be a game that's fun to play. So again, to the masses of console players out there who couldn't give a cat's meow about minute details in comparison to the totality of a full game, it's rather easy to see how that which you say, valid as it may be, can come off as being anal.

 

[Lightknight]

Yeah, stop picking on pc owners. Pick on people like me who has the consoles AND the pc. Sure, your insults may fall flat before reaching us on our tower of all games but it's really the principle of insulting us that should matter to you. We view you people as mere ants who know nothing of the next yard over. Now, I'm not going to say we're elitest, just that we're better than everyone else in every possible way. (Joke: This statement informing you that I'm joking is brought to you by Poe's Law and the letter "E")

 

[felbot]

but if it is a console thread then why the fuck would you post about your pc? even if they may have a pc it's still a console thread so what drove you to start posting about your pc?

Oh and for god sake... stop assuming every PC gamer is an elitist!

To be completely fair to the people who throw out those complaints, it's a little hard to stomach the "not-elitist" excuse when you turn around and see tons of forums flooding with people saying they refuse to buy a 2D platformer because it potentially runs at 30 FPS instead of 60. Not even a precision platformer like Super Meat Boy. It sucks that it might arbitrarily be locked because the development team just isn't that good with PC development, but 30 FPS is still perfectly playable on a PC.

a 2d platformer only running at 30 fps? well they damn well shouldn't give the devs any money they're absolutely incompetent.

 

[gnihton]

To be completely fair to the people who throw out those complaints, it's a little hard to stomach the "not-elitist" excuse when you turn around and see tons of forums flooding with people saying they refuse to buy a 2D platformer because it potentially runs at 30 FPS instead of 60. Not even a precision platformer like Super Meat Boy. It sucks that it might arbitrarily be locked because the development team just isn't that good with PC development, but 30 FPS is still perfectly playable on a PC.

Super Meat Boy isn't locked to 30fps, I'm 90% sure it's not even 30fps on xbox, since meat boy at 30fps just wouldn't work and I've played it on an xbox before.

 

[piinyouri]

I'm not a fan of the egoist comments from either side, however...

(I know this wasn't what you meant in the thread OP, but this is kind of related)
I'm certainly in favor of separating PC players and console players when it comes to online FPS's.
That shit will simply not be fun if you're the one with a controller in your hands