PC/Console gaming segregation

[Monster_user]

When I say 15FPS is decent, I mean that if you lower all the settings to as low as they can go and it runs at 15FPS, your computer is at the bare minimum level of power to play the game. Most people with that kind of a computer are alright with that. Some aren't, I understand that.

We need to clear something up.

15 FPS minimum, or 15 FPS average?

Most games have spikes that drop the frame rate by at least half. So a 15 FPS average frame rate means the game gets below 8 FPS when you need the frame rate the most.

A 15 FPS minimum means the game normally averages faster than that, such as in the upper 20's (26-30 FPS). Since most games don't normally have frame rate limits below the VSync/refresh rate, the game often gets to 45 FPS, or higher.

In first person shooters, which are popular on the PC, if your frame rate drops below 20 FPS, you will loose. The game becomes unplayable below 20 FPS.

 

[TehCookie]

-snip-

If fps is such a big deal to you how did you enjoy DmC? Which was 30fps, and even if they doubled the frames on PC that doubled the windows and gameplay as well and didn't make timing more important or the game any smoother.

I get why FPS is important, but I'm wondering why you personally are so adamant about it when you enjoyed a game made for 30 fps. Especially when you say you can see such a huge difference, how did you not notice it in that game?

 

[GeneralFungi]

I think it's important to become attached to gaming software rather then gaming hardware. I've only recently gotten my first truly gaming capable PC, and while I've gotten a lot of use out of it I still turn on my PS3 and even my wii often enough. I'm not concerned what I'm playing good games on, as long as I'm playing good games.

 

[Gromril]

Wan't me to stop accusing you of being an elitist PC jerk? Pro tip, don't be one. Not that I'm saying you are. I'm directing this forum wide. HEED ME OH ESCAPISTS!! I freaking dare you to read a thread about a console port of a pc game, or vice versa, and not find at least a dozen comments along the lines of "Bwah! It's better/worse on the pc because of mods/dumbing down". Now, valid or not, when trying to discuss a game on my beloved console, it's irritating to be told that it's inherantly worse because of the machine I put the disc in, especially when Iv'e seen both and I can't readilly tell the difference between the two. Maybe it's because I'm simple or something.

Yes, I get it, you are very proud of you're awesome gaming rig that can run the newest games, and with that kind of price tag I cant blame you for needing to justify the expense, even indirectly. Just.....just try not to ram it down the throats of us who only have £200-£300 to spend on a machine that plays games.

You know what? I'm goin to air this here, I freaking hate mouse and keyboard as an input medium. If an mmo/shhoter/flightsim/algae romance epic has gamepad support, ill do that. I hate the red marks on my wristand the fact Im usually required to be less than 3 feet from the screen. And yet I am constantly assured that the mouse and keyboard is better. Because precision.

EDIT: Oh god, is this thread turning into a debate about weather it's ok to snub a game based on an fps below 60?! Come on guys, you really dont help yourselves

 

[TelHybrid]

What's the deal?

....

EDIT: I can't believe I have to even type this but no, I am not encouraging "vs" threads or any sort of console or PC superiority complex. Wow...

Explicitly asks for explanation of preferred platforms in OP (e.g. 'what's the deal').

Complains about people bringing up the reasons they prefer their preferred plat for in edit because he "wasn't encouraging it".

Yes, clearly it's the rest of us that have issues with basic comprehension. /eyeroll

Wow... yes you really do. I was not asking for an explanation of preferred platforms at all. What a moron...

 

[Monster_user]

Treyarch must be really good at making games then, because I was playing BLOPS2 at 16FPS Average (Fucking Power Saver) and had no trouble.

Must have been a rock solid 16 FPS.

I ran with 16 FPS on Shattered Horizon. It was unplayable. I couldn't line up my shots before the enemy lined up their's.

OT: Minimum, not Average. If your FPS drops to around 13-14 it's not that big a deal, but 15FPS is playable. Those who say it isn't have either never had a game drop that low due to resource restraints, or are simply nitpicking.

I run Crysis 2 on a Core 2 Duo, with a GT 240, I know what low frame rates are.

When my rig drops below 18 FPS the game stutters, skips, jerks, and otherwise responds slowly. When Crysis 2 drops below 24 FPS, my K/D plummits.

When playing Street Fighter IV, my timing is thrown completely off if it drops below 50 FPS. Same with Batman Arkham Asylum Which seems to put the game into slow motion, as opposed to skipping..

Admittedly, one of the bigger issues is tearing when the frames are not properly synced, or stuttering when waiting to sync. So a solid 30 FPS is not as bad as an inconsistent 30 FPS.

Case in point, in World of Warcraft you can alter the Framerate cap to any number. I spent a while using macros to constantly switch between 15-30-60 FPS. 15 was playable, going to 30 saw a huge improvement in performance. Going from 30 to 60 was almost negligible.

World of Warcraft? Really? Of course 15 FPS is playable on WoW, it doesn't demand quick reflexes.

You don't notice much difference between 30 FPS, and 60 FPS, but I do. My PC rarely gets above 40 FPS, but when it does it is gorgeous. I've never had a screen get above 75hz, so I don't know what higher refresh rates look like, but a solid 60 is simply amazing.

I would consider 24 FPS to be the minimum frame rate I would enjoy a game at, with at least a 30 FPS average or a solid 24 FPS.

 

[Amaror]

Oh and for god sake... stop assuming every PC gamer is an elitist!

To be completely fair to the people who throw out those complaints, it's a little hard to stomach the "not-elitist" excuse when you turn around and see tons of forums flooding with people saying they refuse to buy a 2D platformer because it potentially runs at 30 FPS instead of 60. Not even talking about a precision platformer like Super Meat Boy, just normal platformers. It sucks that it might arbitrarily be locked because the development team just isn't that good with PC development, but 30 FPS is still perfectly playable on a PC.

Also, it's probably a bit of a persecution complex. Particularly in such PC-centric forums like The Escapist, it's a little obnoxious to see all of the constant complaints about how games get "dumbed down" because of the console market, as if the people who play on consoles are somehow stupider than the people who buy for PC. Something a lot of people don't seem to realize is that the complexity of the control scheme doesn't equal depth of gameplay.

I mean, if you want to get really pedantic here, you're encouraging the PC/Console segregation yourself by telling people to stop accusing PC gamers of being elitists while not telling people to stop accusing console players of being massive scrublords who need their hands held every thirty seconds.

Anyway, console wars are nothing new. PC getting roped into the mix pretty much just comes with the territory now that so many games are multi-platform. The most predominant cause of the behavior likely involves insecurity about one's purchases when they see that same product questioned extensively by random strangers, and they feel the need to justify their purchase of said product. Of course, you also have people who are inexplicably "loyal" to a certain brand, and I can't really explain that one since putting your "loyalty" in a big multi-million dollar mega-corporation just seems silly to me.

Well for one i don't call pc gamers out to stop calling console gamers dirty peasants, because i have never seen a pc gamer calling a console gamer a dirty peasant.
I have seen them call pc's superior or state that console game development dumbs down games. I, however, have never seen that a pc gamer says that a console gamer is dumber than a pc gamer.
I do have seen console gamers call pc gamers elitists thousands of times.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

I disagree...nearly all the PC gamers i know are elitists and will quite happily hobble themselves with mouse and keyboard when playing games designed for a control pad...because control pads are for children who play consoles. Shame they aren't good enough to compete with me on any games...elitism has nothing to do with skill and since that is the only measure of a player worth considering they have no argument for me. I used to be a PC gamer and gave up because most games are topped by cheaters and i wanted more challenge...then i hear them talk like they are 'the shit' when in reality they only earn one of those words.


But i don't really care. Stupidity comes in all shapes and sizes and i'm not immune to it either...i'm a challenge elitist

 

[Kittyhawk]

Each format is like an island. Its best to visit them all than remain on one shore, never having sampled another.

Good games exist on all islands. Each person just needs to find the heart to check others out.

 

[Vegosiux]

Each format is like an island. Its best to visit them all than remain on one shore, never having sampled another.

Good games exist on all islands. Each person just needs to find the heart to check others out.

I think it's often less a heart issue and more a time and/or disposable income issues.

I mean, my temporal budget is limited, so I will miss out on many games because there's only one of me, and 24 hours in a day, and I have places to be and things to do for the better part of those...and when I get a game, I play the hell out of it, which means I'm not going to just eat through it and move to the next one.

Oh and I'm a PC type. I can do other stuff on PC too, I need a decent one anyway because of the nature of my work and lifestyle, so I just extend the use to games too. Plus, I don't have a TV (nor do I want one).

But as for "missing out on good games" argument, that one just rings flat to me. I'll be missing out on a bunch either way, cause I simply can't accommodate them all.

 

[Jazoni89]

Each format is like an island. Its best to visit them all than remain on one shore, never having sampled another.

Good games exist on all islands. Each person just needs to find the heart to check others out.

I think it's often less a heart issue and more a time and/or disposable income issues.

I mean, my temporal budget is limited, so I will miss out on many games because there's only one of me, and 24 hours in a day, and I have places to be and things to do for the better part of those...and when I get a game, I play the hell out of it, which means I'm not going to just eat through it and move to the next one.

Oh and I'm a PC type. I can do other stuff on PC too, I need a decent one anyway because of the nature of my work and lifestyle, so I just extend the use to games too. Plus, I don't have a TV (nor do I want one).

But as for "missing out on good games" argument, that one just rings flat to me. I'll be missing out on a bunch either way, cause I simply can't accommodate them all.

Then again, if you have the budget, and means to, i really don't see why not. I own a gaming PC, and 14 consoles, and i don't feel too overwhelmed. I manage to get round to each, and every one eventually. Even if some platforms don't even get switched on for months on end, but they are always there, hooked up and ready, when i feel the itch for a certain game.

I don't know, i have always preferred to have options when it comes to gaming, and considering my taste in games is huge and varied (from Nintendo games, to something like Civilization), i personally think it's worth my time and money.

 

[Jazoni89]

Each format is like an island. Its best to visit them all than remain on one shore, never having sampled another.

Good games exist on all islands. Each person just needs to find the heart to check others out.

Man, I have the heart. Sadly my heart is broke as fuck and I have to watch the other islands with my scope and be annoyed by exclusive titles or idiotic differences in release schedules.

Well, speaking of this island analogy...

At the moment, Nintendo's island seems to be crawling with savage tribal's going "Ugh Wii-U Ugh" trying to defend their once proud island, and the Xbox island seems to be washing away by the waves of the sea, to a point where only a few live in what was once a huge island.

The Sony island is where all the booze, and bikini clad girls are right now, nice and sunny forecasts are predicted throughout this year. The weather has been a bit miserable in the PC island as of late, but you guys seem to be embracing the storm that is clouding above you, and sneering at the other islands because they stole your booze.

 

[Jazoni89]

Well, speaking of this island analogy...

At the moment, Nintendo's island seems to be crawling with savage tribal's going "ugh" trying to defend their once proud island, and the Xbox island seems to be washing away by the waves of the sea, to a point where only a few live in what was once a huge island.

The Sony island is where all the booze, and bikini clad girls are right now, nice and sunny forecasts are predicted throughout this year. The weather has been a bit miserable in the PC island as of late, but you guys seem to be embracing the storm that is clouding above you, and sneering at the other islands because they stole your booze.

Heh, from my perspective the Sony and XBox islands look like mine but the fee for the ride is just too big because I seem to have to buy a boat in addition (I don't own a TV). Nintendo looks like a bright and fun, but technologically less advanced area with people throwing planks in my general direction which sadly sink half way through (the ability to play on the Wii U without a TV hindered by the battery life of the device). At least they directed me towards the 3DS island where the ride was cheap and the party seems to be even better than on N's main shore.

I think we are on to something here buddy.

Someone needs to make this a YouTube series of different gamers on different islands, seriously, i would watch the hell out of it. Plus it would be a nice comedic spin on these often seriously heated internet gaming platform arguments.

Please...Machinima!

"Oh no the Pirates has been spotted around PC island, what should we do?" "Captain David Rodger Michel will know what to do"

 

[Vegosiux]

"Oh no the Pirates has been spotted around PC island, what should we do?" "Captain David Rodger Michel will know what to do"

Why, make hats and sell them to the pirates! Maybe throw in some fake handlebar mustache sets.