Penny Arcade starts a Kickstarter for no good reason

Navvan

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votemarvel said:
Navvan said:
Not true, while they do have a lot of advertisements for their own products not all of the ads are. Although it is possible to load a page and just so happen to have all the advertisements be Penny Arcade related.

For example there was both an add for HeroEngine and Magic the Gathering Duels of the Planeswalkers when I visited the site.
I went through as much of the site as I could and all I ever saw were adverts for part three of their own game (On the Rain-slick Precipice of Darkness) and a card game based on their Paint the Line storyline.

If other ads are showing up then they are highly infrequent compared to those for their own products. You'd think I would have seen one other advert in eight different sections of the site.
I don't know what else to say. I just quickly refreshed a bunch of times and it was about 70% PA adds and 30% other. Its weird that we're getting such different results.

Edit: Did a few more refreshes and the numbers are a bit different to what I initially saw of around a 50/50 split. There is still a significant amount of other ads they show though.
 

JohnDoey

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Do people not realize that the rewards are obviously an intentional joke, also I don't like penny arcade very much but that video was pretty funny.
 

Psykoma

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Some in this thread are saying that PA is holding parts of their website hostage:
Nope, if the kickstarter doesn't go through, NOTHING CHANGES. Nothing is being held hostage, stop being dramatic twats.

Some are also bitching about the rewards, saying along the lines of 'omg they thing one retweet is worth 500$, what egotistical assholes!'
That's not what the donation rewards are for. They're small symbols of appreciation for your donation to -the cause-.
Lets say you get a gift of 500$ from a grandparent. Do you go out and buy a 500$ thank you note/gift to send back to them, or do you go and spend a few dollars on a card (or make one yourself)?
You buy the couple dollar thing to use as a symbol of thanks. It's not meant to be equal value to the gift you've received. (Though by reading the comments I don't think I'd be wrong to assume most of you wouldn't give any sort of thank you.)
The same thing with the kickstarter rewards. They're not supposed to be equivalent to the value of your gift to the cause, otherwise there'd be no point to your donation. You might as well just buy something (at cost) from the cause, and the cause you're meant to be donating to would get nowhere.

Some more are complaining about the figure. 1 million dollars is a lot of money, huh?
No, not really. Not to a company of 14 people.
Judging by the houses, cars, (and for Mike - boat), I'd say Mike and Jerry are both above the 200k per year salary range.
As basically the head of the company, and as the head of sales, I'd feel safe in guessing that Khoo and Fehlauer (I'm sorry, I can't remember what his post-marriage last name is :/) are both well above the 100k range.
And I can't imagine that PA is paying the rest of their staff less than industry averages. Likely they're in the 40-80k range.
I would be honestly be very surprised if PA paid less than a million dollars per year in salary expenses alone.
If they would operate on 1 million alone for a year, I would feel confident in guessing that more than a few people are going to be taking pay cuts.

Add to that medical insurance expenses, rent on their premises, electricity, bandwidth to accomodate their 3.5 million (or more) page views per day, hardware, charity costs (in one of the threads on PA, Khoo talked about how a lot of the charities' expenses were going through PA so that the charity itself had very small operating expenses).

It's not a question of financial mismanagement. It's a question of being a company.


But most importantly, get the hell over yourselves. If you don't agree with the idea, or the fact that it's using kickstarter, DON'T DONATE. If enough people feel the same way as you, nothing will change.
 

Marcus McLean

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I can't believe nobody has linked this yet.

Actually it took me a while to find this strip again because searching for strips tagged with "kickstarter" on the site's archives no longer yields results.
 

ResonanceSD

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Ninjaed, by god, but still, worthy of a second post.



Also, it sorta shows the necessity of ad revenue to keep a website running.
 

ThePS1Fan

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Penny Arcade seems to want every penny their readers have.


I really hope this is some sort of joke. One million dollars to run a web comic and some videos for a year? Lolwut?
 

Diluted Dante

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So how do people feel about Double Fine Adventure, Wasteland 2 Carmageddon, Shadowrun Returns, Leisure Suit Larry or the Jane Jensen game?

Or outside of games, Amanda Palmer raising a million dollars for a new album and tour, despite having released several albums on a major label and having toured worldwide numerous times. Or the OC Supertones, a band that began life in 1995 funding an album through it.

I really don't get peoples issues with this. Plenty of well established people have been using Kickstarter for stuff. It is not about new people making something new, and hasn't been for a good long while. Penny Arcade's Kickstarter falls within the guidelines, unless they use the money for Childs Play.

I don't get the idea that they're taking money away from other things. I would not fund for example No Need for Bushido because I neither know nor care what it it. I do know what Penny Arcade is, and I know I like it, so I'll give them money. This isn't money that would have wound it's way to another project. This is money that would have stayed in my wallet. No other project is missing out because of Penny Arcade because they would never have had my money anyway.
 

rob_simple

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Psykoma said:
Some in this thread are saying that PA is holding parts of their website hostage:
Nope, if the kickstarter doesn't go through, NOTHING CHANGES. Nothing is being held hostage, stop being dramatic twats.

Some are also bitching about the rewards, saying along the lines of 'omg they thing one retweet is worth 500$, what egotistical assholes!'
That's not what the donation rewards are for. They're small symbols of appreciation for your donation to -the cause-.
Lets say you get a gift of 500$ from a grandparent. Do you go out and buy a 500$ thank you note/gift to send back to them, or do you go and spend a few dollars on a card (or make one yourself)?
You buy the couple dollar thing to use as a symbol of thanks. It's not meant to be equal value to the gift you've received. (Though by reading the comments I don't think I'd be wrong to assume most of you wouldn't give any sort of thank you.)
The same thing with the kickstarter rewards. They're not supposed to be equivalent to the value of your gift to the cause, otherwise there'd be no point to your donation. You might as well just buy something (at cost) from the cause, and the cause you're meant to be donating to would get nowhere.

Some more are complaining about the figure. 1 million dollars is a lot of money, huh?
No, not really. Not to a company of 14 people.
Judging by the houses, cars, (and for Mike - boat), I'd say Mike and Jerry are both above the 200k per year salary range.
As basically the head of the company, and as the head of sales, I'd feel safe in guessing that Khoo and Fehlauer (I'm sorry, I can't remember what his post-marriage last name is :/) are both well above the 100k range.
And I can't imagine that PA is paying the rest of their staff less than industry averages. Likely they're in the 40-80k range.
I would be honestly be very surprised if PA paid less than a million dollars per year in salary expenses alone.
If they would operate on 1 million alone for a year, I would feel confident in guessing that more than a few people are going to be taking pay cuts.

Add to that medical insurance expenses, rent on their premises, electricity, bandwidth to accomodate their 3.5 million (or more) page views per day, hardware, charity costs (in one of the threads on PA, Khoo talked about how a lot of the charities' expenses were going through PA so that the charity itself had very small operating expenses).

It's not a question of financial mismanagement. It's a question of being a company.


But most importantly, get the hell over yourselves. If you don't agree with the idea, or the fact that it's using kickstarter, DON'T DONATE. If enough people feel the same way as you, nothing will change.
I'm only quoting you because I agree with everything you say and I feel that this way there's twice the chance of people reading your post on their way to drop off their inane wailing.
 

Icehearted

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Kickstarter is fast becoming a one-stop destination for marks and scoundrels. The very best part is that it's proof that we must be doing a lot better than the news would have us believe, as the dim of whit can find it in their pockets to hurl money at bad ideas for the privilege of being tweeted or skyped.

Feel like I want to throw myself into a volcano now.
 

Ragsnstitches

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Psykoma said:
Some in this thread are saying that PA is holding parts of their website hostage:
Nope, if the kickstarter doesn't go through, NOTHING CHANGES. Nothing is being held hostage, stop being dramatic twats.

Some are also bitching about the rewards, saying along the lines of 'omg they thing one retweet is worth 500$, what egotistical assholes!'
That's not what the donation rewards are for. They're small symbols of appreciation for your donation to -the cause-.
Lets say you get a gift of 500$ from a grandparent. Do you go out and buy a 500$ thank you note/gift to send back to them, or do you go and spend a few dollars on a card (or make one yourself)?
You buy the couple dollar thing to use as a symbol of thanks. It's not meant to be equal value to the gift you've received. (Though by reading the comments I don't think I'd be wrong to assume most of you wouldn't give any sort of thank you.)
The same thing with the kickstarter rewards. They're not supposed to be equivalent to the value of your gift to the cause, otherwise there'd be no point to your donation. You might as well just buy something (at cost) from the cause, and the cause you're meant to be donating to would get nowhere.

Some more are complaining about the figure. 1 million dollars is a lot of money, huh?
No, not really. Not to a company of 14 people.
Judging by the houses, cars, (and for Mike - boat), I'd say Mike and Jerry are both above the 200k per year salary range.
As basically the head of the company, and as the head of sales, I'd feel safe in guessing that Khoo and Fehlauer (I'm sorry, I can't remember what his post-marriage last name is :/) are both well above the 100k range.
And I can't imagine that PA is paying the rest of their staff less than industry averages. Likely they're in the 40-80k range.
I would be honestly be very surprised if PA paid less than a million dollars per year in salary expenses alone.
If they would operate on 1 million alone for a year, I would feel confident in guessing that more than a few people are going to be taking pay cuts.

Add to that medical insurance expenses, rent on their premises, electricity, bandwidth to accomodate their 3.5 million (or more) page views per day, hardware, charity costs (in one of the threads on PA, Khoo talked about how a lot of the charities' expenses were going through PA so that the charity itself had very small operating expenses).

It's not a question of financial mismanagement. It's a question of being a company.


But most importantly, get the hell over yourselves. If you don't agree with the idea, or the fact that it's using kickstarter, DON'T DONATE. If enough people feel the same way as you, nothing will change.
Don't expect any dissenters (or even supporters) to respond with a rational frame of mind. This sort of thing will draw out the PA haters and PA humpers and smash them together to create immense amounts of bullshit from both sides. This (ensuing shitstorm) will waste many hours of people who really have nothing better to do.

I fell into the trap of debating during the ongoing Sarkessian "debate" only to realise that the people your both siding with and speaking out against BOTH fill the debate with nonsense and bullcrap, blurring what is real and what is pure sensationalist fabrication into one indistinguishable mass of nonsense.

Its all passion and shit stirring with no purpose or potential for a consensus. If people respond to you in the negative don't bother responding back... you quite clearly stated your point of view on this and there is no point in indulging someones pedantry.
 

Ragsnstitches

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Icehearted said:
Kickstarter is fast becoming a one-stop destination for marks and scoundrels. The very best part is that it's proof that we must be doing a lot better than the news would have us believe, as the dim of whit can find it in their pockets to hurl money at bad ideas for the privilege of being tweeted or skyped.

Feel like I want to throw myself into a volcano now.
The purpose of funding a kickstarter is to meet the goals laid out by the Project heads. The Rewards are just that, rewards. They aren't products or items of equal value to your investment... since that would nullify your investment in regards to the goal. As someone mentioned above, if you got a gift (in this case a donation) of X amount of money, you AREN'T expected to return the gesture with another item of X worth... since that defeats the purpose of the gift/donation.

Some people just want a PA free of ads. I doubt any of the investors actually believe they will be thought of during coitus or care if their names are shouted aloud as the Project heads chase ducks. People taking those rewards at face value clearly do not get the gag.

But don't mind me... if you feel like a tumble in a volcano will makes things better for you, I won't stop you.

That said, I'm not going to fund this. Ads weren't a problem for me at all. My refusal to fund this kickstarter is where my disapproval towards the project ends... I'm not going to get my Torch and pitchfork out of the nerdrage shed over nothing so inconsequential to me.
 

McMullen

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*reads thread*

I'm not a big PA fan, they're just one of the comics I read on the applicable mornings. But I have to say:

Really Internet? This is what we are? You make me sad.

At first I figured it was either someone spoofing PA or a joke by PA, since they've done at least two strips on the absurdity of some Kickstarter projects, both of which are posted in this thread. Those rewards were clearly meant in jest.

And then I was rather confused at just how much RAEG there is here. The site being held hostage? PA scamming and blackmailing its fans? Did you all forget how Kickstarter works, or do you just not know? First, if the goal isn't reached, no transactions are made and it will be as if this thing never happened. That is common to all Kickstarter projects. PA will go on with the ads it currently has, and those who don't like it can use an adblocker. Just like now. Bringing words like "scam", "hostage", and "blackmail" into this discussion is simply a stupid thing to do, and many of you are stupid people for doing it.

I don't really doubt that the goal will be met. The PA community is well-known for its generosity in the Child's Play drive and in keeping the site alive in its early days, and it includes people who can and do donate thousands of dollars to any given cause the company happens to be supporting. I'd be surprised if the goal doesn't get met. I don't have a problem with it because everyone who's donating money feels as if they're in a position where they can freely do so. I don't, so I'm not donating, and that's the extent of my interest in this matter, aside from the spectacular display of ignorance in this thread.

So, if it does go through? Then PA will fund whatever it needs to with the money, Mike and Jerry will post a thank-you and perhaps a special appearance strip or two (a day under a year from when the goal is met, most likely), and the overflow will probably go to Child's Play.

As for the people who think one million dollars is a lot for PA, I'm guessing you don't like the comic, and therefore don't go to their site often, and therefore don't really understand just how much stuff PA does. All of that has been outlined above, but seriously, one million dollars is not enough to run that company at all. It's probably the remainder of the expenses they need to cover AFTER the revenue from PAX and their merch has been taken into account. Actually, I was under the impression that the ticket prices for PAX went to paying for the event, meaning there wouldn't be any revenue from it.

Again, all of this has been said above, but it is a series of points that people are obviously failing to get, so perhaps it's worth repeating.
 

drmigit2

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This is such an obvious publicity stunt. They dont really want the money, they are just trying to discredit kickstarter.
 

Kurt Horsting

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How 'bout kick start good projects. instead of giving money to people that already have established a successful business model. Like, Help indy game companies start up. Like DIVEKICK.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/995085580/bring-divekick-to-pc

Seriously, as someone who played this game at UFGT8, this game is fucking awesome, I hope they make it.
 

Endocrom

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An unrealistic kickstarter from people who have joked about kickstarter and said it could become a bubble? Couldn't possibly be a joke.

In fact, I'm going to rage about it in a huge wall of text on some internet forum.

[hr]You know what would be funny, if on the last day, they put up the rest of the money themselves as a big f-you to their advertisers.

Or even cancel it to show how much money would have gone to "the popular guys" that could have gone to some nobody's real project.