People's Issue With Square Enix
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To be honest, this topic is a prime example of one of the biggest reasons why I hate Square-Enix, which is its INCREDIBLY annoying fanbase. Square-Enix fans are the most defensive fanbase ever, and no matter how often Square-Enix releases horrible game after horrible game, the fans defend it like it's their religion or something. Square-Enix fans love to whine about how people "hate on FF7 to be cool", but speaking for myself, the real reason I hate it is because any potential interest I might have had in playing it has been drowned by the fans nagging me to play it, and questioning WHY I haven't played it. Then once I finally do try it and make fun of Cloud for having Popeye's shoulders and running with his arms flailing like they don't have any bones in them, the fans light their torches and flame me for all I'm worth. It's annoying because I WAS enjoying the game, but once that happened, I lost all interest.
It's a weird feeling, but surely you've all experienced it. You know, that one friend of yours who keeps nagging you to watch/play/do something with them, and the more they bug you about it the less you want to do it? Now imagine that same feeling, but with about a million internet nerds doing it to you. It's infuriating, and it just makes the fanbase impossible to deal with, and thus makes you hate the company responsible for it.
Though while people often complain about the FF7 fanbase being annoying, they're nothing compared to the Chrono Trigger fanbase. The Chrono Trigger fanbase makes me want to bang my head against the wall every time they speak. Whenever I hear "Chrono Trigger is one of the greatest games of all time" or something to that effect, there's a part of my brain that snaps, and a flow of rage comes flowing in. Chrono Trigger fans simply won't shut the hell up about how much they love the game, and criticize anyone who HASN'T played it as if they're some sort of lesser being.
But what else do I hate about Square-Enix? Well aside from the fanbase, I think a big problem I have with them is that they don't feel like a company that has any soul whatsoever. They don't have any particularity noteworthy people that speak at events, and most of all they have no sense of humour. This is the company that pretty much CREATED the traditional JRPG story, and 90% of the cliches that go with it. There's nothing wrong with that, but the problem is that they KEEP using the same plot and cliches, and rarely do anything differently. Oh sure they do change the settings, and some of the core concepts of the plots are quite unique, but they still usually end up going through the same basic story progression as any of their other games. I don't feel any reason to like the company because they all feel like cliched JRPG making robots. The annoying this is that they could so easily fix this if they just lightened up a bit and, to steal an overused phrase from Yahtzee, take the piss out of themselves.
All of Square-Enix's JRPGs take themselves way too freaking seriously, what with the over the top angst and drama which is drawn out in endless annoying cutscenes, and they really need to just lighten up and have fun. What they need to do is make their own "Mario & Luigi: Super Star Saga", but with Final Fantasy. The Mario and Luigi games not only make fun of the Mario games and JRPGs, but they also take some pretty harsh jabs at Nintendo as a company. It's great because it's nice to see Nintendo admitting to a lot of the things gamers complain about them, and I think that this is exactly the sort of thing Square-Enix needs to do, because at least then we could be sure that there are real human beings running the company.
A big example of them needing to lighten up is that they have a franchise which is a crossover of Disney and Final Fantasyesque JRPGs, but do they have fun with it? Of course not. They play it seriously, and it becomes a series that really feels like it doesn't know what the hell it's trying to do. If they were to take it in a more silly direction, and actually USE the cast of the Final Fantasy games in them as the main characters, it could be hilarious. Just the unlikely pairings alone would be great, like Barrett and Piglet teaming up, or having a scene where Mortimer Mouse hits on Tifa, making sure to include his trademarked "Hat-cha-cha!", or best of all, sending Aerith and Mufasa on a mission together, only to have them both get killed in a silly way.
There are still tons of other complaints I have with them, like the over-abundance of cutscenes, or the fact that they won't let Nintendo use anyone from Super Mario RPG without a name in the credits and a note from Jesus, but this has gone on long enough. My point being, there are a TON of genuine reasons to hate Square-Enix, and believe me, I could have gone on for twice as long as I already have.
It's a weird feeling, but surely you've all experienced it. You know, that one friend of yours who keeps nagging you to watch/play/do something with them, and the more they bug you about it the less you want to do it? Now imagine that same feeling, but with about a million internet nerds doing it to you. It's infuriating, and it just makes the fanbase impossible to deal with, and thus makes you hate the company responsible for it.
Though while people often complain about the FF7 fanbase being annoying, they're nothing compared to the Chrono Trigger fanbase. The Chrono Trigger fanbase makes me want to bang my head against the wall every time they speak. Whenever I hear "Chrono Trigger is one of the greatest games of all time" or something to that effect, there's a part of my brain that snaps, and a flow of rage comes flowing in. Chrono Trigger fans simply won't shut the hell up about how much they love the game, and criticize anyone who HASN'T played it as if they're some sort of lesser being.
But what else do I hate about Square-Enix? Well aside from the fanbase, I think a big problem I have with them is that they don't feel like a company that has any soul whatsoever. They don't have any particularity noteworthy people that speak at events, and most of all they have no sense of humour. This is the company that pretty much CREATED the traditional JRPG story, and 90% of the cliches that go with it. There's nothing wrong with that, but the problem is that they KEEP using the same plot and cliches, and rarely do anything differently. Oh sure they do change the settings, and some of the core concepts of the plots are quite unique, but they still usually end up going through the same basic story progression as any of their other games. I don't feel any reason to like the company because they all feel like cliched JRPG making robots. The annoying this is that they could so easily fix this if they just lightened up a bit and, to steal an overused phrase from Yahtzee, take the piss out of themselves.
All of Square-Enix's JRPGs take themselves way too freaking seriously, what with the over the top angst and drama which is drawn out in endless annoying cutscenes, and they really need to just lighten up and have fun. What they need to do is make their own "Mario & Luigi: Super Star Saga", but with Final Fantasy. The Mario and Luigi games not only make fun of the Mario games and JRPGs, but they also take some pretty harsh jabs at Nintendo as a company. It's great because it's nice to see Nintendo admitting to a lot of the things gamers complain about them, and I think that this is exactly the sort of thing Square-Enix needs to do, because at least then we could be sure that there are real human beings running the company.
A big example of them needing to lighten up is that they have a franchise which is a crossover of Disney and Final Fantasyesque JRPGs, but do they have fun with it? Of course not. They play it seriously, and it becomes a series that really feels like it doesn't know what the hell it's trying to do. If they were to take it in a more silly direction, and actually USE the cast of the Final Fantasy games in them as the main characters, it could be hilarious. Just the unlikely pairings alone would be great, like Barrett and Piglet teaming up, or having a scene where Mortimer Mouse hits on Tifa, making sure to include his trademarked "Hat-cha-cha!", or best of all, sending Aerith and Mufasa on a mission together, only to have them both get killed in a silly way.
There are still tons of other complaints I have with them, like the over-abundance of cutscenes, or the fact that they won't let Nintendo use anyone from Super Mario RPG without a name in the credits and a note from Jesus, but this has gone on long enough. My point being, there are a TON of genuine reasons to hate Square-Enix, and believe me, I could have gone on for twice as long as I already have.
i admit that square enix have had some decent games; the kingdom hearts sequels and TWEWY.. although you have to admit, the final fantasy franchise has gone downhill since square joined with enix. Yes, they're trying new battle systems and stat systems.. but i think, if it aint broke, dont break it; the systems that were devised for final fantasy 7,8 and 9 were all fantasic ways of doing it, so why change the whole thing? I would say thats my biggest problem with it. Either its square that have fell downhill or enix have pushed them down the hill. I must admit they did make final fantasy: Advent children really well, along with crisis core.. although nobody stops to think it was the earlier, more credible square that laid the foundations for it; maybe that's why they were made so well?
They make a decent game and people don't complain, and they make bad games and people complain? I don't understand what you aren't getting here.Phoenix_XIII said:
Ok, maybe that's not a completely fair generalization. I'm not really into the genre so maybe I can't judge, but I've heard that even final fantasy fans didn't really like 11-13 much and that 14 is a disaster, so I would say that running a beloved franchise into the ground for 4 games strait isn't really a good way to keep a fanbase happy.
I have never seen a series go so far down a crapper as Final fantasy has.. well, ok, Sonic. But Final fantasy? That's just cruel. That's my problem with Square; that and they refuse to make any games their fans would actually want. Like a FF7 remake. I don't want one, but I know how popular the idea is, and Square admitted they know that as well. Hell, the trailer for this imaginary remake sold PS3's. But they told their fans off and said they know better. Same thing with Kingdom Hearts. We'll probably never see a #3 at this rate.
Yeah, a very bad company with horrible business practices.
Yeah, a very bad company with horrible business practices.
You gotta keep in mind though that Square-Enix didn't actually MAKE Just Cause 2.Phoenix_XIII said:
The fact that you lump together all Final Fantasy fans together is part of the problem.Guitarmasterx7 said:
Due to the series' popularity, the fanbase is vast and has thousands of different opinions. Some want it to go back to the NES-era, others want another Final Fantasy 7, and so on. Infact, it would be rather impossible to please everyone, considering that fact.
Personally, I'm happy they're actually trying to change things a bit with each installment. I'd take that over the graphically updated clones other companys seem to get away with, yet their fanbases seem to love them for it.
I generally buy games to play them, not watch 20 hours of cliche anime-esque cut scenes. That's why I hate Square. Maybe its the other way though, maybe if other people decide its not their cup of tea you should leave them alone instead of antagonizing them.
They're not Squaresoft?
Well my issue is that they need to scale it back a bit. Yes, they're good at epic games. But who wants a line of hyper-linear clones that are all looks and no brains.
Yeah I'll be that guy but FF 12 and 13 are worrying trends in the games. If they can bring it back to a great story, (maybe about the interesting character instead of the bloody weenie) and just focus on characters interacting with the world.
*In my opinion* that's what made Final Fantasy games so appealing in particular. The ability to interact and to see that there was a living, breathing world lying around which you were trying to save. 12 destroyed that with a notice board, 13 with statues.
Well my issue is that they need to scale it back a bit. Yes, they're good at epic games. But who wants a line of hyper-linear clones that are all looks and no brains.
Yeah I'll be that guy but FF 12 and 13 are worrying trends in the games. If they can bring it back to a great story, (maybe about the interesting character instead of the bloody weenie) and just focus on characters interacting with the world.
*In my opinion* that's what made Final Fantasy games so appealing in particular. The ability to interact and to see that there was a living, breathing world lying around which you were trying to save. 12 destroyed that with a notice board, 13 with statues.
I think the only way to get Square back on track is to let them go under and donate money to Mistwalker so they can buys the rights to FF/KH. Seriously Lost Odyssey is FF11.
Square said it was embarrassed by the lack of interest in JRPG's during E3 this year, when they could have said five words and had the biggest game at the conference. (Final Fantasy 7 Remake Confirmed). If Square continues to act so oblivious and irrational they really are going to go under in no time.
O yes *ahem, In My Opinion
Square said it was embarrassed by the lack of interest in JRPG's during E3 this year, when they could have said five words and had the biggest game at the conference. (Final Fantasy 7 Remake Confirmed). If Square continues to act so oblivious and irrational they really are going to go under in no time.
O yes *ahem, In My Opinion
I don't really hate squareenix. I hate what they have been doing to final fantasy.
their mindset seems to be:
"1-10 and tactics all had some level of success with only little tweaks to combat and mechanics, so lets try everything except what has worked. oh, and make sure to tie it to other successful games, that should make it successful regardless"
basically i hate whats going on with final fantasy.
kingdom hearts is good, and there are other games that do well. but screwing around with final fantasy, their "phoenix from the ashes", and getting effects like 11,12,13,CC, or any of the spin off games from earlier successes is just foolish.
they could just as easily make a different name and just use whatever spells and stuff they wanted like kingdom hearts did and keep final fantasy intact.
their mindset seems to be:
"1-10 and tactics all had some level of success with only little tweaks to combat and mechanics, so lets try everything except what has worked. oh, and make sure to tie it to other successful games, that should make it successful regardless"
basically i hate whats going on with final fantasy.
kingdom hearts is good, and there are other games that do well. but screwing around with final fantasy, their "phoenix from the ashes", and getting effects like 11,12,13,CC, or any of the spin off games from earlier successes is just foolish.
they could just as easily make a different name and just use whatever spells and stuff they wanted like kingdom hearts did and keep final fantasy intact.
Well, I'm sorry. People are entitled to think what they think. Of course, that applies for you too. If you made a thread which said "a lot of people dislike Square Enix games but I disagree, can someone explain why?" then that would've been fine.Phoenix_XIII said:
But, you've basically said "a lot of people dislike Square Enix because they don't understand they're wrong".
But I've just given it a bit of thought and I'd like to weigh in. First of all, I don't really have any strong opinions on JRPGs. I've played a good few and if one gets recommended to me by one of my JRPG enthusiast friends then I'll probably give it a go. I've had fun playing them, I've given up on some after 2 hours. Either way, I have 2 points I'd like to make.
1) A lot of people won't play JRPGs because they're too... I don't know the word. More so than any other genre, there's a culture that surronds JRPGs and that puts a lot of people off. It's like the weeaboo thing. The attitude of big JRPG fans towards those games, manga/anime and just Japan as a concept is offputting to the newcomer. It makes the games less accessible.
2) Sometimes when I play a JRPG, I feel like there's a pressure on the game to be a certain length, even if it isn't needed. I know people like running around, doing fetch quests and leveling up, but if that's not the kind of thing you do like then towards the end of the second act, you'll get bored. JRPG fans talk a lot about their great stories and characterisation and the storys can be very good, but they can also get buried underneath side quests.
Let me explain. Regular JRPG format is you go around doing your normal thing, at the end of the first act, something threatens something important to the player. Their friend, their town, the world or whatever. And then, in the third act, you defeat the menace. But then there's Act 2. Act 2 which lasts 60 hours.
In this time, the threat should always be in your mind. Final Fantasy X did this well. You had to stop that giant ball of destruction and the whole game was you trying to chase it down. If you wanted to, you could do the side quests and get rare stuff but it wasn't vital, you know? Along the way, you found out more about your companions and story unfolded itself in a logical way. Half the characters were morons, but at least they did have character. Rikku and the Kimahri were interesting enough that I kept playing to the end to see what happened. Also because I wanted to see Tidus die.
I hope that gave you some points to think about. I'm sorry I'm not very good at explaining things.
No, they dumbed down as well.SirBryghtside said:
JRPG's were never as in depth as Western counterparts at the best of times, though there was alot of variety in gameplay. Presentation and graphics were years ahead.
Then the world map vanished in FF10.
FF12 actually tackled some grey moral issues, politically speaking, but the characters were just awful. Boring or annoying or just outright pointless.
Then FF13 came alot nothing but corridors and a literal "Press X to win".
FF13 was the worst offender for dumbing in years and REALLY damaged the brand name.
It had nothing that traditionally made FF great, other than fantastic graphics.
I don't speak for everyone, but myself and alot of my friends are seeing Bioware and Bethesda taking similar actions and worried the Western market is going the way of the Japanese one.
If I made a guess, it was that their earlier games were more revolutionary--they were new, different, and exciting. As we got used to their formula, we wanted different things. Some fans hated that, some liked it. At first it seemed like they were doing well introducing new concepts. But they also have a lot of misses, which not only alienates old school fans, but also puts off fans who are open to new ideas but dislike the handling of it.
Besides that, the whimsical design of FF looked fine in 8-bit or 16-bit, but 3D looked alienating to many players. Games have been changing, and tastes have changed too, but many feel like FF is rooted strongly in '90s style tastes. Not to mention advances in technology mean things like story and graphics started to take precedent where they couldn't before in exchange of gameplay and content. And some people aren't terribly keen on the story FFs often have.
Besides that, the whimsical design of FF looked fine in 8-bit or 16-bit, but 3D looked alienating to many players. Games have been changing, and tastes have changed too, but many feel like FF is rooted strongly in '90s style tastes. Not to mention advances in technology mean things like story and graphics started to take precedent where they couldn't before in exchange of gameplay and content. And some people aren't terribly keen on the story FFs often have.
If you want a well-thought-out, well-researched, comprehensively cited article, a forum post asking people to explain their disillusionment with Square is is the wrong place to go. The guy asked, I'm just calling it the way I see it.Korten12 said:
I still kind of see EIDOS seperately, and I'm curious about how much they work together. They did Just Cause 2 wonderfully, and I'm eager to see how Hitman turns out. Their newer RPGs...well, I may not have played much of anything since FF7. They should realize they'll never convert a "mainstream" crowd by steering closer to "mainstream gameplay" and making their RPGs more action-oriented and simplistic; the blend doesn't work. Concentrate on what you do well, and do better at it, and maybe more people will convert over.