people's misunderstanding of Korra and Asami

JimB

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crazygameguy4ever said:
People seem to think that Korra holding hands with Asami means they're gay.
May I ask you, crazygameguy4ever, what would it take to constitute proof in your mind that Korra and Asami are attracted to one another as lovers?

crazygameguy4ever said:
I don't understand why people are wrongly thinking this.
If you will forgive me for saying it so bluntly, based on the way you seem to have refused to engage with any evidence to the contrary like those interviews with the show's creators, I suspect the reason you don't understand is you have decided you are right, anyone who disagrees is wrong, and intend to deny anyone else is right without considering their stance.
 

Tony2077

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i don't see it as a bad thing if they were a couple and the last image the context seems like its there
 

Dansen

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DaWaffledude said:
Dansen said:
Its obvious the OP was supper invested in the series and his interpretation of the characters. I can relate to that. I was in shock when I found out Dumbledore is gay and was firmly against it. Then my aunt said something that pissed me the fuck off. "Is there a problem with him being gay?"

YES, YES THERE IS! During the entire course of the series I had never pondered Dumbledore's sexuality. It didn't seem like he cared and neither did I as a result. Then J.K. Rowling announces that he is gay, with out any evidence from the books to support it. It just ruined some of the magic of Dumbledore for me. I suspect the OP might feel similarly because he has a set image of these to characters and this revelation must feel like an unwarranted retcon to him. However it does seem like this relationship was hinted at before hand.
... How does Dumbledore being gay "ruin some of the magic"? What magic? The "straight-magic"? Seriously, explain this to me. I'm lost.
The Dumbledore in my mind didn't care about having romantic relationships at, he was this awesome omnipotent guy that was to busy to care about such things, the fact that J.K. Rowling felt the need to establish that he was gay with no real clues in the story goes against what I thought of him. Its really just the shock of having a character firmly rooted in your mind suddenly have a major character trait retroactively retconned into the story.

Which is what I imagine the OP feels like atm.
 

JimB

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Dansen said:
J.K. Rowling felt the need to establish that he was gay with no real clues in the story
Why does Dumbledore's sexuality need to be a mystery that clues are laid out for? Can't a gay dude just be gay?
 
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JimB said:
Why does Dumbledore's sexuality need to be a mystery that clues are laid out for? Can't a gay dude just be gay?
I think it has more to do with taking away the freedom that comes with ambiguity than anything else. When his sexuality is ambiguous, you're free to think it up for yourself. For fanfiction writers, at least, there's a certain freedom to write characters a certain way when the canon leaves this or that trait up to the imagination. If you want to write/portray/headcanon Dumbledore as straight now, you have one more obstacle standing in your way. Not that canon has stopped people from doing whatever they want, of course. As I say, it's just one more obstacle is all.

From a storytelling perspective, though, it elicits a kind of "uh... okay?" thought. The hallmark of good storytelling is tricking the reader into thinking that he's coming up with the story himself. "Btw he's gay" is, at its core, telling versus showing. It doesn't allow the reader to think that he's come up with the idea himself.

Do I care either way whether Dumbledore was gay? No. Do I care either way about this specific scenario where Rowling stated after the fact that he was gay? No. But I can certainly see why people might.

Does it relate back to Korra? I suppose only if you didn't interpret any of the clues scattered throughout the series as clues at all. For my part, I thought it was just an inevitable conclusion that their friendship would turn into romance, whether during the story or after, and I was particularly glad to see that it was the former.
 

Farseer Lolotea

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lord canti said:
Not to mention that they ended on the exact same pose Katara and Aang ended on after they kissed in the final scene of last airbender.
We saw Aang and Katara, Zaheer and P'Li, Kuvira and Baatar, and Varrick and Zhu Li doing that same pose. All of the above were explicitly couples.

Korra was 'shipteased with Asami over a longer stretch of the show than she was 'shipteased with Mako; bisexuality and pansexuality exist; and if the toad spirits can be interpreted as having anything to do with Korra's love life (much less Makorra), then the same can be said for the "pride-flag sky." And DiMartino tacitly confirming it just ices the cake.

In summary: interpreting them as a couple is not a "misunderstanding." In fact, denying that they're a couple on the grounds that their previous interest in a boy is proof of their heterosexuality (as opposed to evidence that they're likely bi or pan) is what is known as erasure.
 

JimB

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gandhi the peacemake said:
I think it has more to do with taking away the freedom that comes with ambiguity than anything else.
If that's the argument, then Dansen must absolutely loathe movie adaptations taking away his freedom to picture the character's appearance as he wants.

gandhi the peacemake said:
"By the way, he's gay" is, at its core, telling versus showing.
Is it even in the books? I gave up on Harry Potter after the first book, but the way I remember the news stories, Rowling released that during a press interview, not during the story.
 
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JimB said:
gandhi the peacemake said:
"By the way, he's gay" is, at its core, telling versus showing.
Is it even in the books? I gave up on Harry Potter after the first book, but the way I remember the news stories, Rowling released that during a press interview, not during the story.
I'm pretty sure you're correct; I dismissed the Harry Potter series after the first book, too. I had written something about the millennia-long debate over how "canon" Word of God (creator statements outside of the text itself) is, but I must have deleted it. Well, the gist of it is that some people consider Word of God to be completely canon, and others that consider only the work itself to be canon, and all sorts of gray area between and around the two. So that's arguably at the core of this whole divide between Gay Dumbledore and Straight Dumbledore.
 

The Squid King

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I know at least a few people who have dated people of the opposite gender before coming to the conclusion that they were gay, heck I know someone who came to this revelation when they were married. I also know people who are technically bisexual but have only been attracted to one or two people of the opposite gender while attracted to many more of their gender. This stuff happens, it's not ludicrously rare. Korra and Asumi having both dated a guy is not proof that they're straight or even proof that they're bi.

Regardless, the implication that Korra and Asumi were a couple was anything but subtle and one of Korra's creators shared an article praising the show's LGBT representation. It is as close to confirmed as it could be given the show was published by an American children's network that would do its best to avoid that controversy.
 

Qwurty2.0

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I jest, of course. ;)
 

sky14kemea

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JimB said:
gandhi the peacemake said:
"By the way, he's gay" is, at its core, telling versus showing.
Is it even in the books? I gave up on Harry Potter after the first book, but the way I remember the news stories, Rowling released that during a press interview, not during the story.
As someone who's read all the books, no. It's not really mentioned or even hinted at in the books as far as I remember. I think that's why people are so fussy over it.
 

JimB

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JimB said:
Is it even in the books? I gave up on Harry Potter after the first book, but the way I remember the news stories
JimB said:
the news stories
JimB said:
the news stories
I just realized the fact that a wizard being into cock was fucking newsworthy not so many years ago. An imaginary wizard liking imaginary dudes was news.

Now here we are having that same discussion again, but gender-flipped. An imaginary kung fu witch being into tuna with another imaginary kung fu witch is a thing that needs to be debated this hotly.

Christ, this is depressing. I'm going to bed.
 

Asita

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sky14kemea said:
JimB said:
gandhi the peacemake said:
"By the way, he's gay" is, at its core, telling versus showing.
Is it even in the books? I gave up on Harry Potter after the first book, but the way I remember the news stories, Rowling released that during a press interview, not during the story.
As someone who's read all the books, no. It's not really mentioned or even hinted at in the books as far as I remember. I think that's why people are so fussy over it.

To elaborate a bit more, there's a segment where they delve into Dumbledore's early years and Grindelwald's influence on him back then, but nothing that screams 'sexuality'. At best, Rowling's statement on the matter[footnote]which was made in response to a fan asking if Dumbledore had ever fallen in love himself. Her answer was - to quote - "My truthful answer to you ? I always thought of Dumbledore as gay. ? Dumbledore fell in love with Gellert Grindelwald, and that added to his horror when Grindelwald showed himself to be what he was ? falling in love can blind us to an extent ? he was very drawn to this brilliant person, and horribly, terribly let down by him."[/footnote] helps to inform the scene, but within the sole context of the literature itself, the guy didn't have a discernible sexuality, presumably because it was at best incidental to the story being told.
 

KazeAizen

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crazygameguy4ever said:
Shadowstar38 said:
crazygameguy4ever said:
cause i'm all about the truth i nthis situation.. and it's annoying when people are saying that two straight characters are gay now just because their held hands and want to be closer as best friends.. if not for Mako and Asami feeling guilty because of how Kora would feel(about her ex-boyfriend dating her other friend), Asami probably would have kept dating Mako... it's clear Mako still likes both Korra and Asami and they probably both still like him, but didn't want the tension that would be caused if one of them was dating Mako and the other wasn't... it's pretty obvious that their straight..
There's been no conclusive proof that either character is straight. You assumed as much because they both showed interest in a boy. Being attracted to a boy doesn't rule out the possibility that they could also be attracted to girls. We can't really declare with certainty either way.

they are straight.. it's a fact.. deal with it.. their best friends, practicality sisters.. nothing more
You also clearly don't get visual cues. Like at all. I can't imagine what you'd be like at a party. TV is a visual medium. If you are doing your job correctly you don't have to spell out every single little detail in words. Given context of scenes, music, lighting, overall mood you can interpret what the artist is going for. Korra and Asami's chemistry has been the best out of team Avatar. Season 3 they simply worked off each other better than they had with Mako in the past. In season 4 it was the more subtle stuff like Korra only choosing to write to Asami which, yes, at that point it could be seen as kind of a sisterly connection.

Then you get to stuff like "The blush" when Asami compliments Korra's new hairstyle after 3 years. A subtle beat that everyone took as the creators at least acknowledging that the fans liked the idea of them together. Her blowing up at Asami for talking with her father could be perceived as overprotective of someone she cares about.

Then you arrive at their final conversation. Where they talk deeply and personally and Asami stresses her feelings on what it would've been like to lose her that day. No one else. Just Korra and she equated it with the loss of her father. Someone who she loved dearly despite what he had done. Now all you need to do is overlay the final song, "The Avatar's Love", and their final few seconds on camera which had mirrored every single other couple. The look in their eyes also is not just of mere friends. Its subtle but you can tell there is something more there. Korra and Asami are either A)Bi or B) Gay. They are not straight however. Not anymore.
 

Drathnoxis

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TheKasp said:
Edit: Okay. Fuck it. If the final shot was too subtle then the following may be too but:



The whole coloring above each, seperated by the Spirit Portal is the bloody Bisexual Pride flag coloring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexual_pride_flag

I expect to read that I'm reading too much into this but fuck me if I try and treat the shows creators like buffoons not being able to be subtle about their intended message.
Wow, that is so Big Gay Al [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Anvilicious]
 

KazeAizen

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JagermanXcell said:
Kolby Jack said:
Frodo and Sam were WAY gayer than this and yet not gay.
NO F**K YOU, YOU COULD TELL BY THE WAY SAM GAZED AT FRODO'S NOSE BEFORE HE GOT ON THE BOAT IN A VERY SPECIFIC SHOT THAT HE WANTED TO SHAG HIM REAL GOOD.
I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG!


OT:
Ok, now that i'm done harping on the OP's denial... To me, the ending was ambiguous, and perfectly so for the fans.

I for one relish in the idea that they are bi/gay. I mean, for varieties sake it's fantastic for a kid show to break the mold for once! That and the blatantly huge subtleties suggesting it had me genuinely happy and satisfied with MY conclusion on how it ended. That and i've been talking about it with all my friends, who concluded the same thing, and am having a good time just discussing how great the two work as a couple. I'm also fine, if it was to somehow be confirmed by the mighty Bryan himself, that they are just really really good friends who don't mind getting touchy.
I'm fine with that, it still doesn't detract from how great it ended.

Overall, it's up to the individual/the fan to decipher the ending and draw their own conclusion, while respecting everyone's else's conclusion the same... BOOM /all of these threads

To me if Avatar was crafted to be a perfectly executed animated epic that kids back then could sort of call their "Lord of the Rings" then the sequel Korra is "Let's go smaller, more personal, and see just how much we can get away with." That being said it is rather impressive the massive stones theses guys had. Amon and Tarlock's fate had me awe struck. I kind of just dropped my jaw and went "Did I just see that on a kids show?" Then Unalaque get's outright killed by The Avatar herself. Not gruesome of course but he is killed. The fates of all of the red lotus members except Zaheer were pretty ballsy. The earth queen's death. The entire scene where Korra is poisoned borderlines on straight up horror for this show. Then of course the death of Hiroshi and that final scene.

When you actually look back on Korra it really is staggering the amount of stuff these mad geniuses got away with. Also given the article the guy shared and apparently they had to fight Nick tooth and nail to get that particular version of the ending into the final cut I would say rather definitively proves the conclusion that many fans have drawn. Whether bi or gay I'm fine with whatever you prefer to think. Me, myself, and I, being a straight guy, actually choose to view them gay.
 

Furbyz

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I feel like the people obstinately refusing to acknowledge that Korra and Asami being together is a valid interpretation would see the end of North by Northwest and assume the leading man and woman were celibate for the rest of their lives.

Haven't seen North by Northwest? Let me explain. The last scene of the movie cuts from a perilous situation to the protagonists recently married and on their honeymoon on a train. They enter their car and embrace. It's so wonderful that they made it out alive and got together! The last shot of the movie is this:


Not exactly subtle is it?
 

CrystalShadow

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TheKasp said:
The whole coloring above each, seperated by the Spirit Portal is the bloody Bisexual Pride flag coloring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexual_pride_flag
There's a bisexual pride flag? Huh. Wish I'd known that earlier... XD


Ahem, anyway, to the OP, from what I've seen of this (and keeping in mind I haven't seen the whole scene, nor even much of the series) this doesn't look like two friends holding hands...

And so what if they've kissed guys? I've kissed guys, and it doesn't change the fact that i'm Bisexual.
At best it would rule out me being a lesbian (but even that can't be said with certainty, quite honestly)

People who are just friends don't tend to look at each-other like that. Holding hands is kind of the least significant part of what you're seeing there.

But why are you so insistent on this anyway? You sound like you have some personal problem with the idea that they could be bi/lesbians.
Why?