people's misunderstanding of Korra and Asami

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

While I would have cheered like hell if that gif of them kissing had been the final frame, it's still a nicely done ending with sufficient ambiguity to be taken a few ways, though I know which way I fall on the matter.

 

[Dizchu]

I haven't seen anything set in the Avatar universe but I've seen enough fanart to know that Korra and Asami having the hots for each other isn't just a few obsessive fans shipping two characters arbitrarily. Then the creator flat-out said that they're gay for each other.

It baffles me how wound up this gets people. This is like Adventure Time all over again. GAY WOMEN EXIST. GET OVER IT.

I mean is society so absolutely heteronormative that something like this is seen as abhorrent? "I'm not homophobic but I'd rather not see those gays in my TV shows". Ughh.

The fact that they didn't even show them kissing shows how backwards we are as a species. Forgive me as I am not sure of the context, but some fundamentalist jackass would have sent them death threats if they did something like that. "You're teaching the kids how to be gay!" Yet teaching kids that heterosexuality is the "default" and having almost all media aimed at kids reinforce heteronormative standards? That's fine!

Sorry that I got so wound up, things like this seriously get under my skin.

 

[William Ossiss]

My only qualm was getting blindsided by this from far left field.
Though, to be honest, I was also blindsided by:

Spoiler

Varrik and Julie getting married. I've been saying "Do the thing!" since I saw it. It makes me happy

But why do we have to label their relationship? Can't they just be 'together' and not saddle them with "lesbians" and "bisexuals"? Why can't the Avatar Universe have no qualms about these types of things and consider it normalcy?
Because humans, lol.


I am glad, though, that the Korra/Mako/Asami badly written love thingy went away. Far, far away.

Never to be seen again.

 

[soren7550]

Great Spirit Kite in the Spirit World, everything that I could have said has been said. Even the extensive misuse of 'their'.

One of the creators is all "I'm not saying they're gay per say, but check out this article praising how they're groundbreaking gay/bisexual characters!", the song playing as they enter the Spirit World is called 'The Avatar's Love [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM6OESptPLA]' (some people are arguing that it isn't because it was ever so slightly different, but eh), they're shown holding hands and gazing at one another as only couples have done in the series, they're going on a vacation with just the two of them (not a shopping trip, not a day at the spa, or whatever it is friends do, but a vacation to another land with no one else), 'hints' have been thrown around about the pairing for two Books, and GAAAAAAH.

Hell, I ship Makorra because I find them adorable and well together, but Book 2 happened, and this is now the golden word. Sucks for me I guess, but oh well. What can I do?

OOH, but I can throw this into the fray! Hi-yah!

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/105916338157/korrasami-is-canon-you-can-celebrate-it-embrace

Shots fired.

Spoiler

DECEMBER 22, 2014
Korrasami is canon.

You can celebrate it, embrace it, accept it, get over it, or whatever you feel the need to do, but there is no denying it. That is the official story. We received some wonderful press in the wake of the series finale at the end of last week, and just about every piece I read got it right: Korra and Asami fell in love. Were they friends? Yes, and they still are, but they also grew to have romantic feelings for each other.

Was Korrasami ?endgame,? meaning, did we plan it from the start of the series? No, but nothing other than Korra?s spiritual arc was. Asami was a duplicitous spy when Mike and I first conceived her character. Then we liked her too much so we reworked the story to keep her in the dark regarding her father?s villainous activities. Varrick and Zhu Li weren?t originally planned to end up as a couple either, but that?s where we took the story/where the story took us. That?s how writing works the vast majority of the time. You give these characters life and then they tell you what they want to do.

I have bragging rights as the first Korrasami shipper (I win!). As we wrote Book 1, before the audience had ever laid eyes on Korra and Asami, it was an idea I would kick around the writers? room. At first we didn?t give it much weight, not because we think same-sex relationships are a joke, but because we never assumed it was something we would ever get away with depicting on an animated show for a kids network in this day and age, or at least in 2010.

Makorra was only ?endgame? as far as the end of Book 1. Once we got into Book 2 we knew we were going to have them break up, and we never planned on getting them back together. Sorry, friends. I like Mako too, and I am sure he will be just fine in the romance department. He grew up and learned about himself through his relationships with Asami and Korra, and he?s a better person for it, and he?ll be a better partner for whomever he ends up with.

Once Mako and Korra were through, we focused on developing Korra and Asami?s relationship. Originally, it was primarily intended to be a strong friendship. Frankly, we wanted to set most of the romance business aside for the last two seasons. Personally, at that point I didn?t want Korra to have to end up with someone at the end of series. We obviously did it in Avatar, but even that felt a bit forced to me. I?m usually rolling my eyes when that happens in virtually every action film, ?Here we go again?? It was probably around that time that I came across this quote from Hayao Miyazaki:

?I?ve become skeptical of the unwritten rule that just because a boy and girl appear in the same feature, a romance must ensue. Rather, I want to portray a slightly different relationship, one where the two mutually inspire each other to live - if I?m able to, then perhaps I?ll be closer to portraying a true expression of love.?

I agree with him wholeheartedly, especially since the majority of the examples in media portray a female character that is little more than a trophy to be won by the male lead for his derring-do. So Mako and Korra break the typical pattern and end up respecting, admiring, and inspiring each other. That is a resolution I am proud of.

However, I think there needs to be a counterpart to Miyazaki?s sentiment: Just because two characters of the same sex appear in the same story, it should not preclude the possibility of a romance between them. No, not everyone is queer, but the other side of that coin is that not everyone is straight. The more Korra and Asami?s relationship progressed, the more the idea of a romance between them organically blossomed for us. However, we still operated under this notion, another ?unwritten rule,? that we would not be allowed to depict that in our show. So we alluded to it throughout the second half of the series, working in the idea that their trajectory could be heading towards a romance.

But as we got close to finishing the finale, the thought struck me: How do I know we can?t openly depict that? No one ever explicitly said so. It was just another assumption based on a paradigm that marginalizes non-heterosexual people. If we want to see that paradigm evolve, we need to take a stand against it. And I didn?t want to look back in 20 years and think, ?Man, we could have fought harder for that.? Mike and I talked it over and decided it was important to be unambiguous about the intended relationship.

We approached the network and while they were supportive there was a limit to how far we could go with it, as just about every article I read accurately deduced. It was originally written in the script over a year ago that Korra and Asami held hands as they walked into the spirit portal. We went back and forth on it in the storyboards, but later in the retake process I staged a revision where they turned towards each other, clasping both hands in a reverential manner, in a direct reference to Varrick and Zhu Li?s nuptial pose from a few minutes prior. We asked Jeremy Zuckerman to make the music tender and romantic, and he fulfilled the assignment with a sublime score. I think the entire last two-minute sequence with Korra and Asami turned out beautiful, and again, it is a resolution of which I am very proud. I love how their relationship arc took its time, through kindness and caring. If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens.

Was it a slam-dunk victory for queer representation? I think it falls short of that, but hopefully it is a somewhat significant inching forward. It has been encouraging how well the media and the bulk of the fans have embraced it. Sadly and unsurprisingly, there are also plenty of people who have lashed out with homophobic vitriol and nonsense. It has been my experience that by and large this kind of mindset is a result of a lack of exposure to people whose lives and struggles are different from one?s own, and due to a deficiency in empathy??the latter being a key theme in Book 4. (Despite what you might have heard, bisexual people are real!) I have held plenty of stupid notions throughout my life that were planted there in any number of ways, or even grown out of my own ignorance and flawed personality. Yet through getting to know people from all walks of life, listening to the stories of their experiences, and employing some empathy to try to imagine what it might be like to walk in their shoes, I have been able to shed many hurtful mindsets. I still have a long way to go, and I still have a lot to learn. It is a humbling process and hard work, but nothing on the scale of what anyone who has been marginalized has experienced. It is a worthwhile, lifelong endeavor to try to understand where people are coming from.

There is the inevitable reaction, ?Mike and Bryan just caved in to the fans.? Well, which fans? There were plenty of Makorra shippers out there, so if we had gone back on our decision and gotten those characters back together, would that have meant we caved in to those fans instead? Either direction we went, there would inevitably be a faction that was elated and another that was devastated. Trust me, I remember Kataang vs. Zutara. But one of those directions is going to be the one that feels right to us, and Mike and I have always made both Avatar and Korra for us, first and foremost. We are lucky that so many other people around the world connect with these series as well. Tahno playing trombone??now that was us caving in to the fans!

But this particular decision wasn?t only done for us. We did it for all our queer friends, family, and colleagues. It is long over due that our media (including children?s media) stops treating non-heterosexual people as nonexistent, or as something merely to be mocked. I?m only sorry it took us so long to have this kind of representation in one of our stories.

I?ll wrap this up with some incredible words that Mike and I received in a message from a former Korra crew member. He is a deeply religious person who devotes much of his time and energy not only to his faith, but also to helping young people. He and I may have starkly different belief systems, but it is heartwarming and encouraging that on this issue we are aligned in a positive, progressive direction:

?I?ve read enough reviews to get a sense of how it affected people. One very well-written article in Vanity Fair called it subversive (in a good way, of course)? I would say a better word might be ?healing.? I think your finale was healing for a lot of people who feel outside or on the fringes, or that their love and their journey is somehow less real or valuable than someone else?s? That it?s somehow less valid. I know quite a few people in that position, who have a lifetime of that on their shoulders, and in one episode of television you both relieved and validated them. That?s healing in my book.?

Love,

Bryan

8:01PM | URL: http://tmblr.co/ZMz7zv1Yf6m-j
(Notes: 6,417) FILED UNDER: korrasami canon

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

brian konietzko

And the coup de grace:

http://michaeldantedimartino.tumblr.com/post/105916326500/korrasami-confirmed-now-that-korra-and-asamis

Spoiler: Michael Dante DiMartino

Korrasami Confirmed

Now that Korra and Asami?s final moment is out in the world, it seems like an appropriate time to express how I feel about it. I didn?t want to say anything right away so the audience could experience the finale for themselves.

The main themes of the Avatar universe have always revolved around equality, justice, acceptance, tolerance, and balancing differing worldviews. In subtle and maybe not so subtle ways, Avatar and Legend of Korra have dealt with difficult subjects such as genocide, child abuse, deaths of loved ones, and post traumatic stress. I took it as a complement when Joanna Robinson of Vanity Fair called the show subversive. There were times even I was surprised we were able to delve into the really tough stuff on a children?s TV network. While the episodes were never designed to ?make a statement?, Bryan and I always strove to treat the more difficult subject matter with the respect and gravity it deserved.

And over the years we?ve heard from numerous fans, in person and online, how Avatar and Korra have influenced their lives for the better or helped them overcome a life struggle or setback. I am always humbled when people share their personal stories with us and I am grateful that my love for telling stories has been able to help people in some small way. So while Avatar and Korra were always meant to be entertaining and engaging tales, this universe and its characters also speak to the deeper humanity in all of us, regardless of age, gender, race, religion, culture, nationality, or sexual orientation.

Our intention with the last scene was to make it as clear as possible that yes, Korra and Asami have romantic feelings for each other. The moment where they enter the spirit portal symbolizes their evolution from being friends to being a couple. Many news outlets, bloggers, and fans picked up on this and didn?t find it ambiguous. For the most part, it seems like the point of the scene was understood and additional commentary wasn?t really needed from Bryan or me. But in case people were still questioning what happened in the last scene, I wanted to make a clear verbal statement to complement the show?s visual one. I get that not everyone will be happy with the way that the show ended. Rarely does a series finale of any show satisfy that show?s fans, so I?ve been pleasantly surprised with the positive articles and posts I?ve seen about Korra?s finale.

I?ve already read some heartwarming and incredible posts about how this moment means so much for the LGBT community. Once again, the incredible outpouring of support for the show humbles me. As Tenzin says, ?Life is one big bumpy ride.? And if, by Korra and Asami being a couple, we are able to help smooth out that ride even a tiny bit for some people, I?m proud to do my part, however small it might be. Thanks for reading.

 

[mecegirl]

brian konietzko

And the coup de grace:

http://michaeldantedimartino.tumblr.com/post/105916326500/korrasami-confirmed-now-that-korra-and-asamis

Spoiler: Michael Dante DiMartino

Korrasami Confirmed

Now that Korra and Asami?s final moment is out in the world, it seems like an appropriate time to express how I feel about it. I didn?t want to say anything right away so the audience could experience the finale for themselves.

The main themes of the Avatar universe have always revolved around equality, justice, acceptance, tolerance, and balancing differing worldviews. In subtle and maybe not so subtle ways, Avatar and Legend of Korra have dealt with difficult subjects such as genocide, child abuse, deaths of loved ones, and post traumatic stress. I took it as a complement when Joanna Robinson of Vanity Fair called the show subversive. There were times even I was surprised we were able to delve into the really tough stuff on a children?s TV network. While the episodes were never designed to ?make a statement?, Bryan and I always strove to treat the more difficult subject matter with the respect and gravity it deserved.

And over the years we?ve heard from numerous fans, in person and online, how Avatar and Korra have influenced their lives for the better or helped them overcome a life struggle or setback. I am always humbled when people share their personal stories with us and I am grateful that my love for telling stories has been able to help people in some small way. So while Avatar and Korra were always meant to be entertaining and engaging tales, this universe and its characters also speak to the deeper humanity in all of us, regardless of age, gender, race, religion, culture, nationality, or sexual orientation.

Our intention with the last scene was to make it as clear as possible that yes, Korra and Asami have romantic feelings for each other. The moment where they enter the spirit portal symbolizes their evolution from being friends to being a couple. Many news outlets, bloggers, and fans picked up on this and didn?t find it ambiguous. For the most part, it seems like the point of the scene was understood and additional commentary wasn?t really needed from Bryan or me. But in case people were still questioning what happened in the last scene, I wanted to make a clear verbal statement to complement the show?s visual one. I get that not everyone will be happy with the way that the show ended. Rarely does a series finale of any show satisfy that show?s fans, so I?ve been pleasantly surprised with the positive articles and posts I?ve seen about Korra?s finale.

I?ve already read some heartwarming and incredible posts about how this moment means so much for the LGBT community. Once again, the incredible outpouring of support for the show humbles me. As Tenzin says, ?Life is one big bumpy ride.? And if, by Korra and Asami being a couple, we are able to help smooth out that ride even a tiny bit for some people, I?m proud to do my part, however small it might be. Thanks for reading.

Oh man, I was just coming here to post that. Looks like the "debate" is over, unless someone want's to argue with the creators.

 

[Branovices]

Oh man, I was just coming here to post that. Looks like the "debate" is over, unless someone want's to argue with the creators.

Those posts were planted there by the devil to trick us.

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

Looks like the "debate" is over, unless someone want's to argue with the creators.

Well... I think it was this very same thread (or, you know, one of the other half-dozen threads about this show) where I talked about how Word of God isn't exactly the be-all-end-all that you might think it is.

 

[mecegirl]

Looks like the "debate" is over, unless someone want's to argue with the creators.

Well... I think it was this very same thread (or, you know, one of the other half-dozen threads about this show) where I talked about how Word of God isn't exactly the be-all-end-all that you might think it is.

The OP believes that fans misinterpreted the scene. That they are seeing things that the writers didn't intend for them to see, and here we have the writers saying that they did intend for the scene to be taken a certain way.

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

The OP believes that fans misinterpreted the scene. That they are seeing things that the writers didn't intend for them to see, and here we have the writers saying that they did intend for the scene to be taken a certain way.

Oh, you meant that statement for the OP. Well. I mistook your quoting me as being a response to me. In that case, yes indeed. Agreed all around. Carry on.

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

Actually the creators have confirmed that Korrasami is in fact canon. So the ones that don't think they're together are actually the ones misinterpreting the scene.

 

[Gizen]

they are straight.. it's a fact.. deal with it.. their best friends, practicality sisters.. nothing more

Judging from your tone and absolute certainty that you could not possibly be wrong, despite you not being one of the show's writers and thus lack the authority to declare such statements as fact would lead one to suspect that Korrasami becoming canon mentally breaks you and genuinely offends you in some way. Does Korrasami sink the ship that you had invested your heart and soul in? Or are you just grossly homophobic? Either way, sorry to disappoint you, but the implications of a female/female relationship between the two of them in the ending are both strong and undeniable short of the show writers themselves coming out and debunking it. I would recommend you put in the effort to overcome any homophobia that may be afflicting you. You and the rest of humanity will be better off for it.

Unless you're just really upset that your Korra/Mako ship got sunk or something, in which case I recommend fanfic.

EDIT:

Spoiler: Most people didn't watch after the credits. Lazy viewers!

Spoiler

I jest, of course.

Oh man, I wanna know where you got that .gif!

 

[UsefulPlayer 1]

no no no no no no no NO!

The REAL question is whether or not one of the Biefong twins are gay. Remember when Bolin saved one of them? Those were some lover eyes.

But seriously, I loved the ending scenes. Probably my favorite on-screen relationship.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

I really think it sucks that they had to leave it so ambiguous that people are still argueing over it between Nick making them cut an episode and Nick probably not wanting the show to be real controversial we dont see as much development of a relationship as we did with Korra and Mako in the start. They just suddenly seemed to become a thing with only a few hints and the end, and they didnt even let us see them kiss. If youre going to do it just do it full on and let the controversy come I think.

 

[Sosa Star]

Why does Dumbledore's sexuality need to be a mystery that clues are laid out for? Can't a gay dude just be gay?

I think it has more to do with taking away the freedom that comes with ambiguity than anything else. When his sexuality is ambiguous, you're free to think it up for yourself. For fanfiction writers, at least, there's a certain freedom to write characters a certain way when the canon leaves this or that trait up to the imagination. If you want to write/portray/headcanon Dumbledore as straight now, you have one more obstacle standing in your way. Not that canon has stopped people from doing whatever they want, of course. As I say, it's just one more obstacle is all.

Fanfic writers change the sexuality of characters all the damn time. Or do you not read them? Honestly, that is the silliest reason I've ever heard.

On topic

http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/105916338157/korrasami-is-canon-you-can-celebrate-it-embrace

Korrasami is canon.

Deal

PS I don't really care much, this stuff is just getting annoying

 

[KazeAizen]

they are straight.. it's a fact.. deal with it.. their best friends, practicality sisters.. nothing more

Judging from your tone and absolute certainty that you could not possibly be wrong, despite you not being one of the show's writers and thus lack the authority to declare such statements as fact would lead one to suspect that Korrasami becoming canon mentally breaks you and genuinely offends you in some way. Does Korrasami sink the ship that you had invested your heart and soul in? Or are you just grossly homophobic? Either way, sorry to disappoint you, but the implications of a female/female relationship between the two of them in the ending are both strong and undeniable short of the show writers themselves coming out and debunking it. I would recommend you put in the effort to overcome any homophobia that may be afflicting you. You and the rest of humanity will be better off for it.

Unless you're just really upset that your Korra/Mako ship got sunk or something, in which case I recommend fanfic.

He can't deny it now. Bryan posted on his tumblr that yes they are in fact romantically involved.

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

Fanfic writers change the sexuality of characters all the damn time. Or do you not read them? Honestly, that is the silliest reason I've ever heard.

Relax, I have no dog in this race. But to respond to your question: Yes, I read fanfiction, though not as often as I used to. And to respond to your misreading of what I said:

It doesn't matter one bit to the community what a fanfic writer, or cosplayer, or artist, or other random person does to a character. What matters is what the creator says about that character. And when the creator says the character is one way, then fanfic writers and cosplayers and artists and other random persons wanting to portray the character a different way will invariably face more obstacles trying to do so. That's really all I'm saying. When Dumbledore's sexuality was ambiguous (and, judging by the actual quote Rowling gave, I'm inclined to believe it still is), anyone who wanted to write him as gay or straight or bi or what-have-you was perfectly free to do so. Once he "became" strictly gay, though, anyone who wanted to write him as straight or bi or what-have-you had to contend with their interpretation being against the canon.

That's really it. And canon's not a big hurdle at all for some people; for others, it's a big thing. I'm not sure where this sudden animosity is coming from, but it's most assuredly misdirected.

EDIT:

All this is, of course, assuming that Word of God (ie creator comments outside of the text) is considered canon. There's plenty of debate raging over whether that's the case or not as well.

 

[Methodia Chicken]

Looks like the "debate" is over, unless someone want's to argue with the creators.

Well... I think it was this very same thread (or, you know, one of the other half-dozen threads about this show) where I talked about how Word of God isn't exactly the be-all-end-all that you might think it is.

The OP believes that fans misinterpreted the scene. That they are seeing things that the writers didn't intend for them to see, and here we have the writers saying that they did intend for the scene to be taken a certain way.

In my mind korrasami was so perfect. The ending allowed for such ambiguity with such good suggestion. nothing was offical, nobody needed to be offended by their vision of korra being distorted but I could happily and confidently believe in a romantic relationship between them (where maybe they get married in secret by iroh?maaaybe?). Everyone was right, and every interpretation of their relationship is such a great story. if It's romantic or if it is an amazingly strong friendship (which is no less valuable), both fit the character, both are incredibly well told and worked in with the rest of the series.

now the creators say "nope, it was meant to be taken one way and one way alone", why? what does that serve. what do we gain from that. now everyone who saw them as only friends is going to be upset and wrong for no reason other than confirming something that never really needed to be confirmed.

I'm rather unhappy.
if they were going to do a clear cut, non-ambiguous end they could at the very least have given us this

Spoiler: Most people didn't watch after the credits. Lazy viewers!

Spoiler

I jest, of course.