Perma-kill a superhero.
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While you are entitled to this opinion, I think you have been reading the wrong comic books.RubyT said:
As if to illustrate this,
-Superman isn't just weak to Kryptonite he's weak to magic, psychics and anything that's stronger than him (which according to Grant Morrison is a lot of things, including a speeding train) so he's not all that invincible added on top of the fact he's an alien who has to pretend he's human and recently faked his own death to avoid his friends being injured (Action Comics, woo)
-Hulk's most recent comic series is about how Bruce Banner is a burden on HULK, how the big green rage monster doesn't really want a mad scientist in his head taking over half the time and f*cking up BOTH their lives. Also with enough sheer whimsy to involve him fighting bears in a russian biodome in space.
I get defensive about these because, as with books and movies, the quality varies. Any comic by Alan Moore is normally ranked higher to me than any given book with a few exceptions (because Alan Moore is that rare thing, someone who actually HAS ideas rather than cribbing them from somewhere)
OT: I'd probably kill off the new Phantom Stranger because the series hasn't even started properly and Dan DiDio broke all the important rules of the character by giving him a backstory as well as making it a terrible one. Options to bring back the REAL one are up there for me.
Also Spawn. Because for a poor venom take off he's still shown zero signs of improving and I honestly can't be assed with Image any more. Savage Dragon and Invincible can stay, the rest of you get out.
Talking of which, I was quite disappointed when it turned out thatSaneAmongInsane said:
Batman actually didn't die at the end of The Dark Knight Returns, when it looked as if the whole story was building up to that. Throughout the book, there were various scenes showing Batman's age and fatigue, including one where he momentarily blacked out after fighting the Joker. It would've been a moral victory for Batman to die admirably holding his own against the Man of Steel.
But yeah, if Batman had to die permanently, I'd want it to be in the above against Superman (yeah, I know it's non-canon, but it's probably one of the most influential Batman comics), perhaps the aforementioned lucky punk or the "Innocent Guy" (read towards the end of The Killing Joke paperback), or him dying along with the Joker after a great battle.
It'd be out-of-character for him to retire due to settling down with a girlfriend, since he's much too tormented and obsessed with his one-man war on crime to sustain a healthy relationship with probably the only woman he'd let so close to him: Selina Kyle, who'd just be a lingering memory of his former vigilante career that would eventually cause him to relapse again anyway.
I didn't say Robin wasn't awesome, and his negative reputation is probably due to the camp '60s TV series, his absence in the recent Batman films, and his pre-Drake costume that makes people think he's gay. But, you've gotta admit, it makes Batman look like an irresponsible dick to continue taking on kid sidekicks, two of which have died, and he seemingly gets depressed over them for a while and then gets right back to not killing the Joker.SpectacularWebHead said:
Exactly! Just how, if you assuming that giraffes are evenly distributed around the globe, the majority of giraffes are in the water!CIA said:
OT: Superman. Just to see how the DC world would cope - the many is like a nuclear deterrent with legs and a day-job, I'd like to see what would happen if he wasn't around to keep the boogiemen away.
Superman. Becuase who likes a character that can do EVERYTHING. He can litrally deal with almost any problem by picking it up and hurling it into the sun. >.<
First I'd just like to say I like how you ignored my entire argument and dismissed all the facts I stated, now onto the argument.
Any evidence for that claim?SpectacularWebHead said:
Source please?SpectacularWebHead said:
I could make a plan on how to kick a heavy weight boxers arse, doesn't mean it'll work. A plan won't help him from someone physically better than him in every way impaling his bat-ass with a trident. Bad writing and the thickest plot armour ever might help though.SpectacularWebHead said:
Again, he's physically worse than Aquaman in everyway in a straight up fist fight Bats is going to be murdered. Aquaman can also shrug off AK-47 bullets to the face, I don't thing a piece of scrap metal shaped like a bat is going to do much to him.SpectacularWebHead said:
Hes the godamned Aquaman, see it works both ways. Also in a straight up fight, no advantages, except physical ones Bats was broken by Bane.SpectacularWebHead said:
AngloDoom said:
Apparently that rule about distribution applies to Polar Bears.
Also, this is the counter argument to literally any criticism of Aquaman (apart from the one where they say he's irresponsible when it comes to throwing large land mammals around, that one is in fact true)
Though also, that's kindof a valid reason to wipe out Superman, rather than the rest of the "Because he's too powerful" comments which appears to be the only reason anyone else has. Though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Whatever_Happened_to_the_Man_of_Tomorrow%3F this did at least take a stab at it.
Before this post, I knew nothing about Aquaman. Now I know enough: he is my favourite superhero of all time.CaptainMarvelous said:AngloDoom said:
Apparently that rule about distribution applies to Polar Bears.
Also, this is the counter argument to literally any criticism of Aquaman (apart from the one where they say he's irresponsible when it comes to throwing large land mammals around, that one is in fact true)
Though also, that's kindof a valid reason to wipe out Superman, rather than the rest of the "Because he's too powerful" comments which appears to be the only reason anyone else has. Though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Whatever_Happened_to_the_Man_of_Tomorrow%3F this did at least take a stab at it.
Many superheroes have the ability to hurl large predators, but only Aquaman had the ingenuity and the go-getter attitude to not only incorporate it as part of his crime-fighting regime, but to use the world's largest land-based predator.
I salute you.
You are welcome sir, Aquaman's polar bear throwing skills must be praised at any opportunity. You do your people proud.AngloDoom said:
By contrast, this is someone who is unaware of Aquaman's Polar Bear throwing shenanigansSpectacularWebHead said:
I am seriously considering using Aquaman comics to illustrate every argument I ever have from now on.
Here's the thing, no one specified straight up brawl. If your going to have a comparison of who would win in battle between two superheroes, you kind of HAVE to take their special abilities. Otherwise Superman wins by default. No allowing Batman's natural "having a plan" in any conflict is unrealistic to Batman's entire character. It's the same way that Supeman being a boy scout keeps him from just setting up a base on the moon and using his laser beams to fry human civilization into being better people, knowing full well he could.Eddy-16 said:
Batman is Tony Stark without the alcoholism. Aquaman may be impervious to bullets and such, but we both know who would be the smarter combatant. Aquaman is also very water dependent with most of his abilities. Hr may not be useless, but he is a very situational character.
1) Aquaman has limited skills in fighting, especially on land. His stamina is dramtically reduced when he's away from water, batman could effectively just keep him running around and let him tire himself out.Eddy-16 said:
2) I think it was hush, I cannot find it anywhere though, sorry.
3) Physically batman is easily on Aquamans level in the strength department. Despite not being a meta, batman is incredibly strong and agile, which is something he has up on aquaman. Again, away from water or moisture, aquaman is at a real disadvantadge. And batmans ability to plan gives him a massive edge. If aquaman runs in with his trident, I would imagine batman has a relatively easy plan of disarming him and taking him down fast and hard. He took out the entire justice league by playing off their weaknesses or character faults.
4) I'm not sure if you knew, but batman doesn't just use batarangs. I can think of two regularly carried gadgets that would fuck up aquaman. Ice pellets and a taser. Or anti shark spray.(That was a joke)
5) You can't really use the bane example, because if you'd actually read Knightfall, you'd know the part where bane forces batman to go about three weeks without sleep, constantly fighting every one of his previous archnemesises. Also...It doesn't...The goddamned aquaman has never and will never be a thing. The best aquaman will get is "The outrageous Aquaman". Don't ever do that. It's just silly.
I'm not knocking aquaman as a superhero. He is easily above superman and martian manhunter. But batman is just better in so many ways. Hell, at a push I'd say Red Robin on his own, fuck the new teen titans, I mean REALLY, could take down aquaman. Personally as a trait, intelligence is the best super power you can have, especially if it's coupled with knowledge of martial arts. It doesn't matter how powerful you are, if someone weaker but smarter can come up with a plan, you'd be screwed. Look at David and Goliath. Place David as Someone like Tim Drake and Goliath as someone like Aquaman. Raw Power means nothing when it's matched against brains and skill.
AzrealMaximillion said:
Again... just going to keep posting this until the point sinks in. If Batman can have a plan, so can Aquaman and HIS plan will probably involve throwing large land based predators.
SpectacularWebHead said:
I'm gonna just call shenanigans on the 'Batman is as strong as him' argument.
Seriously, ignoring Batman's plot armour, it's pretty unreasonable to assume he'd just beat Aquaman. For that matter, as much as I enjoy Batman comics, he is unreasonably well respected for what is basically a crazy dude in a suit. Batman would win the fight because the fans demanded it, not because intrinsically he's a better character or he's functionally superior. Because if he's allowed to go and fetch his anti-Aquaman gadgets, I don't see why Aquaman wouldn't be allowed to flood the bat-cave and make them fight underwater.
DC, I have a simple choice: Batman.
Marvel actually is harder to pick. I'll get back to you on that.
Specifically Bruce Wayne. Not to spite the character or because I hate him or any of that stuff, but because there really isn't anywhere left for him to go.
Batman has just gotten progressively more and more powerful as time went on. Some of it was because DC had to come up with a reason to justify him being in the Justice League without being a burden. Some of it was the Silver Age, which boosted the power of almost every hero in DC to absurd levels. Some of it was because eventually big fans got to write the character and wrote him to be supah speshul awesome. But I won't focus too much on that point, as easy as it is. Not all of it was bad, but it's long since passed the point where Batman has become the Gary Stu to end all Gary Stus.
But even ignoring the fact that Batman has become Kung-Fu Detective Jesus, it's also a matter of what to do with the character. He's dealt with love, with loss, with being broken and rebuilding. He's passed on the mantle and has been forced to take it back. He's dealt with fatherhood and the possibility of more family. Insanity and paranoia, remorse and redemption, he's nearly crossed every line imaginable, and actually did cross one or two. He's faced the man whose killed his parents, he's dealt with cosmic forces beyond the possibility of normal men and come out on top. Almost every facet of the character has been thoroughly examined, and it's gotten to the point where almost anything is a step back.
Final Crisis, for all its many problems, was the perfect chance for DC to end Bruce's story. For god's sake, BATMAN of all characters is the one who killed (not necessarily finished off, but that's kinda complicated) Darksied. And he did it by shooting him. Batman faces a situation so severe, so dire, with so much at stake, he's finally forced to break both rules that are core to his character: he takes the life of another, and does it using a gun. He saves the universe. And he dies doing so.
And then we move on to Dick Greyson inheriting the mantle of Batman, and Bruce's son Damien becoming Robin. Dick has to deal with having to do things the way Bruce did, despite him doing things somewhat differently as Nightwing, and just trying to get out of Bruce's shadow, as well as trying to keep Damien in check, who due to his training and raising by the League of Assassins is just one step away from becoming a supervillain. It also doesn't hurt that the comic was really good.
And then Bruce comes back and he's right back to fighting the Joker and Riddler and Two-Face as if nothing happened. You go from shooting the God of Evil in the face and saving the multiverse to stopping a bank robbery by a guy obsessed with the number 2.
Bruce Wayne still can be used for some stories, same with every comic character. But what can you do without retreading old ground? He's become a God among men, and even among supermen. He's stared into the abyss so many times he's memorized what it looks like. He's survived being hit by everything from bomb blasts to Bane's knee to Darksied's Omega Beams. And that's not even getting into the Silver Age. More than any character, I can say that Batman has done everything.
Until the reboot. *siiiiiiiigh*
Batman has just gotten progressively more and more powerful as time went on. Some of it was because DC had to come up with a reason to justify him being in the Justice League without being a burden. Some of it was the Silver Age, which boosted the power of almost every hero in DC to absurd levels. Some of it was because eventually big fans got to write the character and wrote him to be supah speshul awesome. But I won't focus too much on that point, as easy as it is. Not all of it was bad, but it's long since passed the point where Batman has become the Gary Stu to end all Gary Stus.
But even ignoring the fact that Batman has become Kung-Fu Detective Jesus, it's also a matter of what to do with the character. He's dealt with love, with loss, with being broken and rebuilding. He's passed on the mantle and has been forced to take it back. He's dealt with fatherhood and the possibility of more family. Insanity and paranoia, remorse and redemption, he's nearly crossed every line imaginable, and actually did cross one or two. He's faced the man whose killed his parents, he's dealt with cosmic forces beyond the possibility of normal men and come out on top. Almost every facet of the character has been thoroughly examined, and it's gotten to the point where almost anything is a step back.
Final Crisis, for all its many problems, was the perfect chance for DC to end Bruce's story. For god's sake, BATMAN of all characters is the one who killed (not necessarily finished off, but that's kinda complicated) Darksied. And he did it by shooting him. Batman faces a situation so severe, so dire, with so much at stake, he's finally forced to break both rules that are core to his character: he takes the life of another, and does it using a gun. He saves the universe. And he dies doing so.
And then we move on to Dick Greyson inheriting the mantle of Batman, and Bruce's son Damien becoming Robin. Dick has to deal with having to do things the way Bruce did, despite him doing things somewhat differently as Nightwing, and just trying to get out of Bruce's shadow, as well as trying to keep Damien in check, who due to his training and raising by the League of Assassins is just one step away from becoming a supervillain. It also doesn't hurt that the comic was really good.
And then Bruce comes back and he's right back to fighting the Joker and Riddler and Two-Face as if nothing happened. You go from shooting the God of Evil in the face and saving the multiverse to stopping a bank robbery by a guy obsessed with the number 2.
Bruce Wayne still can be used for some stories, same with every comic character. But what can you do without retreading old ground? He's become a God among men, and even among supermen. He's stared into the abyss so many times he's memorized what it looks like. He's survived being hit by everything from bomb blasts to Bane's knee to Darksied's Omega Beams. And that's not even getting into the Silver Age. More than any character, I can say that Batman has done everything.
Until the reboot. *siiiiiiiigh*
Marvel actually is harder to pick. I'll get back to you on that.
