Lots of indie devs do this, i.e. make demo saves compatible with the full version and whatnot. It's a good idea.
Peter Molyneux Doesn't Like Demos
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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Peter, dear, do you mind if I call you Peter?
You do produce some wonderful games. Games that both dazzle and delight us. Possibly nowhere near as much as the original masterpiece might have, but therein lies the problem.
Your mouth. Or rather, the connection between your brain and your mouth.
You see, we all have dreams. Wondrous dreams of being able to let every small part of an experience transcend the whole until it builds into a momentous overflow of ...well, you know what I mean. Some of us even manage to get this made. But...you do have this habit of building castles in the air, and then wondering why the ramparts fall off the clouds.
Start small, build big. The reverse way just gets you included in the latest ZP.
Root (Who still is looking forward to the new Syndicate and will gladly put up with a small demo-ette)
You do produce some wonderful games. Games that both dazzle and delight us. Possibly nowhere near as much as the original masterpiece might have, but therein lies the problem.
Your mouth. Or rather, the connection between your brain and your mouth.
You see, we all have dreams. Wondrous dreams of being able to let every small part of an experience transcend the whole until it builds into a momentous overflow of ...well, you know what I mean. Some of us even manage to get this made. But...you do have this habit of building castles in the air, and then wondering why the ramparts fall off the clouds.
Start small, build big. The reverse way just gets you included in the latest ZP.
Root (Who still is looking forward to the new Syndicate and will gladly put up with a small demo-ette)
In some ways, yes, it's a demo, and in some ways it isn't.
Some companies try and release demos that are just the opening tutorial level, while others release demos that are a part of one of the better levels in the game. In the end, it isn't always a fair display of the game experience. What a good demo should do is give you a taste of what is to come, but some games are way too slow at the start.
I would DEFINITELY say Fable 2 is way too slow at the start, and I don't even know if the first chapter would offer enough to get someone interested in the game. But the Brutal Legend demo, on the other hand, is not only a good demo but a good sample of game design. It introduces the player to the world and characters, but it doesn't necessarily baby them through the gameplay. It takes maybe five minutes to learn the basics before you're moving on to more complex stuff, tosses you into a vehicle and throws in a boss fight for good measure.
The way I see it, more games need to just throw players into the game head first. Brutal Legend does a good job of this, Halo did a good job of it, and Resident Evil 4 tore you a new asshole by teaching you the basic buttons and then saying "Here's a shit ton of enemies and a fucker with a chainsaw! Have at it!". But that's the sort of experience that gets your jaw dropping, heart pumping and the desire to keep playing going. Call of Duty also does pretty decently speeding you through the tutorials and getting you into the game.
Fable 1 and 2 both take too long to get into that sort of action. It may not be a fault of demos themselves, but of the game developer.
Some companies try and release demos that are just the opening tutorial level, while others release demos that are a part of one of the better levels in the game. In the end, it isn't always a fair display of the game experience. What a good demo should do is give you a taste of what is to come, but some games are way too slow at the start.
I would DEFINITELY say Fable 2 is way too slow at the start, and I don't even know if the first chapter would offer enough to get someone interested in the game. But the Brutal Legend demo, on the other hand, is not only a good demo but a good sample of game design. It introduces the player to the world and characters, but it doesn't necessarily baby them through the gameplay. It takes maybe five minutes to learn the basics before you're moving on to more complex stuff, tosses you into a vehicle and throws in a boss fight for good measure.
The way I see it, more games need to just throw players into the game head first. Brutal Legend does a good job of this, Halo did a good job of it, and Resident Evil 4 tore you a new asshole by teaching you the basic buttons and then saying "Here's a shit ton of enemies and a fucker with a chainsaw! Have at it!". But that's the sort of experience that gets your jaw dropping, heart pumping and the desire to keep playing going. Call of Duty also does pretty decently speeding you through the tutorials and getting you into the game.
Fable 1 and 2 both take too long to get into that sort of action. It may not be a fault of demos themselves, but of the game developer.
I miss the good old days. Sure Molyneux is a general quack, but hey, I'd like the play the first part of the game.
Resi 5 sort of did this with its Demo, it was basically the first level, which was cool.
Resi 5 sort of did this with its Demo, it was basically the first level, which was cool.
Ahh one day Peter Molyneux will finally produce something that will be be hailed as the third coming of Jesus. In the meantime at least he's trying to do new things (or recycle old ones) eventually one of the ideas may actually be good.
what if someone released a demo, say, an exclusive level simply to show the skills of the programmers, that had a gradual difficulty curve? as you progress through the level, you can get new weapons, a variation in environmental setup, and changing enemies as they would progress throughout the game, but do it in more checkpoint-spaced intervals, spread through the single level.
for a linear shooter it could work, but for something more sandbox-based and open, it wouldn't work so well
for a linear shooter it could work, but for something more sandbox-based and open, it wouldn't work so well
actually lots of game demos for the psp let you save progress others wont just show the beggining of the game and a few have things that are specifically just for the demo so I think some people have demos downKiutu said:
While I hate Peter Molyneux, I do agree with him. The old style of playing the first few levels for free worked like a charm (looking at you, Id Software). You could argue that this preview method is a demo, but today's demos tend to skew the experience in such a way that it actually ruins the game (with a few exceptions, of course).
However, this method would never work for Japanese games, because we'd all want to kill someone before we got through the opening cinematic of Metal Gear or Final Fantasy and would thus never buy the actual game but instead just rage quit the preview. It only works in the full game because you've already paid the $60 and so you feel like you have to sit through all the cut scenes to get your money's worth.
And finally, one last note, I never would have bought Fable II if I could have played the first 45 minutes for free. So his preview method would have lost a sale in my case. But don't tell Molyneux that.
However, this method would never work for Japanese games, because we'd all want to kill someone before we got through the opening cinematic of Metal Gear or Final Fantasy and would thus never buy the actual game but instead just rage quit the preview. It only works in the full game because you've already paid the $60 and so you feel like you have to sit through all the cut scenes to get your money's worth.
And finally, one last note, I never would have bought Fable II if I could have played the first 45 minutes for free. So his preview method would have lost a sale in my case. But don't tell Molyneux that.
I like demos because "try before you buy" is a good thing.
However, as Molyneux expects, I find it really irritating having to trudge through all the stuff I experienced in the demo again, if I buy the game.
Take something like Arkham Asylum. You've got loads of explanatory cut scenes and practice fights to work through. You get to do them in the demo. Why do them again with the real thing.
OTOH all it would take would be for demos to be able to save a game. Then you could buy the game and resume from where you left the demo.
However, as Molyneux expects, I find it really irritating having to trudge through all the stuff I experienced in the demo again, if I buy the game.
Take something like Arkham Asylum. You've got loads of explanatory cut scenes and practice fights to work through. You get to do them in the demo. Why do them again with the real thing.
OTOH all it would take would be for demos to be able to save a game. Then you could buy the game and resume from where you left the demo.
I personally love demos: they have saved me from buying crap and convinced me to buy games I never knew existed.
I don't really see the big difference between his idea and a demo. Yea there's the continue from where you left off and the episodic pay system (both good ideas) but this is still a demo.
If he wants more people to play Fable 2, he should put it on the PC. My wife will buy it in a second.
I don't really see the big difference between his idea and a demo. Yea there's the continue from where you left off and the episodic pay system (both good ideas) but this is still a demo.
If he wants more people to play Fable 2, he should put it on the PC. My wife will buy it in a second.
Everything old is new again! I'm not even sure he's talking about shareware. He might very well just be talking about time trials, because he specifically mentioned a time limit. Time trials are even worse than shareware, in my eyes. At least the demo is a contained tidbit, a more or less complete idea. The worst thing is a game that stops working just as you're getting to an interesting part.
I thought that too at first, but Molyneux is far too into the delusion that his Fable is "teh awesome" to make such a realization..fix-the-spade said:
As for demos...well there are some out there that are wacky tidbits of different scenes cut and pasted together...and in a way, they do act as a spoiler for the game. (example. FEAR2 demo: bus falling on me was surprising in the demo, was mentally prepared when I came across it in the game though)
To resolve that issue though, some developers don't just lazily cut/paste different scenes together...some create origional level layouts that are different from those in the game but have the same basic look.
As for Molyneux...I see no problem with demos that just let you play the first level straight up...but he is still doing it after the fact so it doesn't exactly have a huge impact... (reveal the game first, then entice a few strays off Live)
