Piracy, Not Consoles, Killed the PC Exclusive

[LiquidSolstice]

snip

Simply put, you're in denial about pc gaming's decline. We have gone as an industry, from almost entirely pc exclusives, to pc exclusives with console ports, to the current trend of pc ports from console games. Whatever your own reservations about it, this is the reality and when you finally realize it, then discussion over how it came to this can happen.

That might be a bit much to take in at once. I'm still attempting to get him to understand that Valve isn't as godly and diverse as he'd like to think.

I agree with your outlook; for better or for worse, devs are realizing that consoles are the smarter investment, and at some point, gamers everywhere will have to realize that gaming has exploded into the popular activity that it is because investors saw it as the new cash cow, and you better bet they were right about that. As demeaning as it may feel, and as much as you want to think otherwise, at the end of the day, we are just potential cashflow to devs. While there will always be a fun factor within the games and people will do it out of love for the game, the business practices that bring said games to you are just that, business practices.

 

[somonels]

Poor Titan Quest...

Lack of understanding behavioral psychology by the marketing department. Crack messes up game -> people rage about the buggy POS -> other people believe, continue rant -> nobody buys the buggy pos because it's already 'in'famous for being one.

Need another example? Mass Effect, initial crack took close to two weeks, people ran into the galaxy map lockup, some days to a new crack, invisible wall, more days to crack, mako, etc. Did OK sales-wise because while the basic method was used, it was used blatantly, pirates knew it was due to DRM and generally did not whine about it in the public.

http://www.retromags.com/forums/blog/6/entry-17-when-anti-piracy-schemes-backfire/

Titan Quest was, according to the publisher, moderately successful. An expansion pack was released in 2007 along with a Gold edition that included both the normal game and the expansion in one box. It made money. But it didn't make enough...

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/20705-44-second-take-piracy-kill-iron-lore - a discussion i remember from Ye Olden days

 

[LiquidSolstice]

And by the way there are ways for banned consoles/players to still get back into Xbox Live, and to a similar extent on the PC networks.

Individual accounts cannot get back onto live. Consoles can (but last I checked it involves the messy business of screwing over another legitimate 360 console). Consoles are not banned by MAC addresses or IPs.

Yeah, this fits with my point that network-based anti-piracy are equal on console and PC: it is severe and both have various ways around it.

So for multiplayer focused games, piracy is not a major factor "losing sales" on ether console or PC.

EDIT: Screw it, I'm not sure what we're arguing about it this instance. I'm assuming by "anti-piracy" you're referring to how easy/simple it is to get banned on either platform, and if you are, I'm not sure what to say because I will admit that I don't know what context you're arguing in.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

3 Pirates spend more money on average than others, most likely because the anti-piracy hordes spent so much money on their high horses, I hear they are quite expensive. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2397173,00.asp

Uhm, dude, did you even read your own article? I'll admit I didn't bother, but after deciding to anyway and reading the first two sentences, I realized you didn't bother to read it either.

arguing that the money consumers save via piracy is spent later on other entertainment expenses.

That's in-your-face obvious; they didn't spend it on one media so they spent it on something else.

....duh?! That's what you do with money, you spend it; just because you're spending more on something else because you chose not to pay for something you should have doesn't make it any better.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I think over the years its become easier to pirate. So a new IP its easier to pirate. Also with storage, Tape, CD, DVD and now almost unlimited hard drive space - piracy is easier and more cost effective.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I guess, like with everything, piracy is a large tag. Some get everything for nothing. Others get one game for nothing and have no intention of ever buying new. Then there are those that buy the sequel cos they loved the original so much. To many layers. I wonder if people are arguing but still agreeing even though they are saying the same thing in a different way.

 

[LiquidSolstice]

so if I am poor and couldn't buy the game anyway

And I pirate the game, and play it, and enjoy it, and am possibly motivated to save up for the sequel because its such a good IP

My Morality is f**ed up

Yes, it is. Video games are a luxury item and not necessary to survive. Not being able to afford something isn't grounds for obtaining it illegally, and sugarcoating it with "oh, but I MIGHT buy it later down the line anyway!!!!11" is such horseshit.

You do know.... that most pirates... actually buy the games they really really want right?

You do know.....that you have absolutely jack-shit to prove that statement? You want to believe it, you want to believe it SO hard that you won't even find evidence for it. (Which is impossible to find, because the pirate defense mechanism would kick in if you went around asking and all the pirates would say they buy it anyway).

Also, you do realize that buying just the games they really want is not any better? I don't go eating the first 5 cookies in a freshly baked batch without paying and then take the 6th one saying that it was the one I really wanted. I experienced (I hesitate to use the word "took" lest all the pedantic idiots with the 'piracy is not stealing' bullshit start hounding me) 5 cookies without paying at all; even though the baker has an unlimited amount of cookies, he still deserved to be paid for the ones I had.

or another fucked up pirate mentality :
Fixing broken games

Pirates are so "Terrible" they dig into a games source from time to time to fix things that the publishers take months to fix

Terrible people yeah, I see

I see that proving your claims is not your strong point. So those "time from time" incidents make up for it all, does it? When are you going to stop sounding like you're apologizing for piracy or making excuses for it and just admit that you want free shit because like the rest of us, you're cheap?

When did it become so difficult for a pirate to admit that and just be done with it?

 

[mirasiel]

I'm just wondering when Publishers and devs are going to realise the obvious flaw in their 'piracy = lost sale' mantra....

If it is a lost sale (and I dont agree that it is) then it is *your* failure as a seller of goods you need to focus on...YOU LOST A CUSTOMER...YOU FAILED TO SELL YOUR PRODUCT TO A PERSON WHO WANTED IT.

Perhaps its time for some introspection about what you can do to improve the service that you give to your customers* and win them back from easy piracy.


*This is kind of a keyword here. remember YOU need US to survive, WE do not need YOU....but we sorta like you, so make it worth our while and we'll help you survive.

 

[Waaghpowa]

snip

Simply put, you're in denial about pc gaming's decline. We have gone as an industry, from almost entirely pc exclusives, to pc exclusives with console ports, to the current trend of pc ports from console games. Whatever your own reservations about it, this is the reality and when you finally realize it, then discussion over how it came to this can happen.

Ironically, people have been claiming PC gaming has been on the decline for nearly 25 years.

Why are you so willing to accept this change? The change isn't necessarily good as it's become more and more apparent that corporate control is being implemented. People can't modify hardware or software on consoles without fear of lawsuit of getting their hardware/accounts banned. You have no choice in peripherals for your games, just proprietary devices and accessories. You have no choice in software or any freedom to modify it.

Sooner or later, consoles will incorporate a "one key per account" system for games similar to PC games. Online passes may not be them, but there was a time you could just buy a console game and play it. Now you have to go through all the patching along with things such as the online passes.

It appears that you're in denial. You seem to believe that this movement from PC to console is simply the market realizing a superior platform, when in reality it's the corporations realizing that they can gradually enforce their control on their consumers. They can't control the PC market due to it's freedom and flexibility, so they're moving to something they can control.

 

[Squickster]

*looks at Blizzard*

Hmm...they seem to be doing pretty good. It must be because of their console games...oh wait.

its because they own the MMO thats pretty much been the 1# and no one can topple it....I doubt it would be that way if they were still releasing the RTS warcraft games

Don't worry, soon its going to be so massive it'll just topple itself .. oh wait ...


As for PC exclusive games .. basically unless the industry can't find a way to put it on at least the Xbox they wont be happy. And anything that can be done for a console can be released on a PC, unless it requires motion sensing gear. Therefore why limit your profits JUST releasing it to the PC?
Its about money not piracy. It is easier to pirate PC games but that's because they (people who make the hacks/cracks/code generators) have had YEARS to perfect what's always been broken.

 

[Treblaine]

snip

Simply put, you're in denial about pc gaming's decline. We have gone as an industry, from almost entirely pc exclusives, to pc exclusives with console ports, to the current trend of pc ports from console games. Whatever your own reservations about it, this is the reality and when you finally realize it, then discussion over how it came to this can happen.

You aren't even addressing the discussion any more, you are just falling back on your original unfounded assertion that depends more on ignorance of the industry than knowledge of the facts.

You object to me being too keen, you clearly don't care about the facts, just some weird sense of entitlement that we should automatically agree with you.

But you are wrong, and throwing around baseless accusations like "You're in denial" won't deflect from the fact that:
-PC has more exclusives than any other platform an almost as many as all the others combined
-Valve has industry leading profitability
-Big publishers like EA are trying to get a slice of this pie with Origin
-Lack of exclusives relative to 90's must be compared to how consoles have EQUALLY lost exclusives
-how similar PCs are to Consoles makes the idea of "console-to-PC port" or "PC-to-console-port" irrelevant

You clearly do not want to discuss these points. I think because you cannot discuss these points without being proven wrong.

There is a difference between simplifying for clarity and arbitrarily ignoring points just to prove your prejudice.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

I don't even want to talk about the written law, 'cause that can be changed and is just a matter of definition.
Even if we call it "copyright infridgement", i always saw it as theft. Not in terms of: 1 physical copy left. It's takin' something without paying. That is, how i define theft.
Taking something, which doesnt belong to you, without asking/paying.

The argument: It doesnt equal one less product sold is also wrong, because if piracy is to easy, alot of people who'd buy the game otherwise, will pirate it and use the money to go out for dinner.
A small percentage of die hard pirates, will always exist, but to the extent right now?

It's just another small evidence, that nowadays alot of people lack education/manners.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Angry PC gamer here to say that a pirated game is not the equivalent of a lost sale.

Yea, when I was poor and downloaded a few games, I couldn't exactly afford to go out and buy them. So it was either that or not play games. But playing those games did make me want to purchase them (and their sequels) when I started getting wealthy so I think they bitchith too much.

Consoles didn't kill the pc exclusive but they might save it. This generation of shitty consoles has turned me into a PC elitist. Mostly because consoles seem to be getting all the crappy parts of pc gaming (broken games patched later and single use codes) and none of the benefits (tweaks, mods, better prices).

 

[Treblaine]

Now Madden series may BLATANTLY just chsnge stats and textures... BUT VALVE DOES NOT! HL2 Episodes are similar but they are sold as stand alone expansions at a lower price.

So, Valve doesn't, but it does, but it's ok because they're standalone and sold at a lower price? Want to make up your mind, bud?

Absolutely NOTHING of the sort, you seem to be critically ignorant on what a Game Engine actually is, it does not include any of the assets, designs, sounds, animations. Game engine is just the bare bones code on which to build the ACTUAL GAME on. You cannot honestly expect every new game to have a brand new engine, that is completely non-viable business strategy. Engines are VERY expensive to develop, they take years of research into optimising code for rendering, animation, lighting, etc. If you think having the source engine there is absolutely NO GAME there. Just the building materials.

Right, because the same candy covered in caramel instead of chocolate and wrapped in a different colored foil is obviously an incredibly different candy. I don't expect EVERY game to have a new engine, I expect that for once, they'd make a new engine instead of building upon their older games. *gasp* CoD LOGIC APPLIED TO VALVE. (head explodes)

And again, if Activision does it, it's bad, but if Valve does it, it's ok. Alright, got it.

Please give me an example of games that use the same engine that you don't consider mere mods but as truly distinct games.

Every single FPS they make.

Really, how the hell does Team Fortress 2 play like Half Life 2? In ways that REALLY matter, not conventions of key layout.

They play the exact same way. Almost same UI, slightly different guns, exact same controls, etc etc. In the same way that every CoD game I've played feels the same, and every Forza game I play feels the same, and every BF game I play feels the same way, and hell, every RTS I've played feels the same way, All the Valve First Person games feel the exact same to me.

"Feels the same" doesn't mean anything, Team Fortress 2 is so hugely different from Half Life 2, as is Left 4 Dead and Portal in design, assets, playstyle and stucture. They are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES from Half Life 2!

No, they're not. They have different textures and only slightly different objectives (with Portal being the only unique game). You can rant about this all day (it's obvious you won't hear anything against them, which is fine, most PC gamers love to criticize the "same-y-ness of mainstream shooters but feel mortally offended when anyone remarks anything slightly negative about Valve).

"it's ok because they're standalone and sold at a lower price?"

Yes, this is a VERY WELL ESTABLISHED CONVENTION of expansions and episodic content reusing assets but being sold at a lower price. It goes as far back as Doom WADs. This doesn't help your position of dispelling the impression you are extremely ignorant of this industry.

You clearly don't get how Game Engines work, one engine is supposed to last 5-10 years and be used for scores of games to justify the development costs.

You are using simpleton logic saying this is the same as COD. MW3 imported whole weapon models from Modern warfare 2 with no noticeable changes and since COD4 it has been reusing the same design concept with only small tweaks like more killstreaks and pro-variant of perks and mixing things around and so on.

Left 4 Dead is a completely different concept from half life 2. It's a co-op multiplayer based zombie killing game progressing through campaign like maps. It's not just unique from Half Life 2 it's unique to every other game on the market at the time.

Please give me an example of games that use the same engine that you don't consider mere mods but as truly distinct games.

Every single FPS they make.

So you mean every FPS game that valve makes is truly distinct and NOT a mere mod?

"(Half Life 2 and Team Fortress 2) play the exact same way. Almost same UI, slightly different guns, exact same controls"

this is not the tiniest bit true.

I don't know if you are lying or if you simply haven't played either of these games and making hugely ignorant assumptions.

"No, they're not. They have different textures and only slightly different objectives"

What do you mean by "texture"? There is no Texture swap of a HL2 asset that can make the model of ANY of the characters, weapons, objects or maps from Team Fortress 2.

http://www.wunderboy.org/images/blog/heavy-import.jpg

how the hell can texture swap make that from any of the characters seen in Half Life 2? And half Life 2's objective is NOT team-oriented, objective based competitive multiplayer. None of the weapons are the same, no more similar than they are to any other shooter.

Valve's games have been so unique and you damn them for being samey? I'm sorry, but you are NOT MAKING ANY SENSE! Avery comparison you have made is patently false. You cannot just say the sky is green and expect it to be accepted.

OK, either you have suddenly completely reversed your position or you did not read the question properly.

 

[Treblaine]

snip

Simply put, you're in denial about pc gaming's decline. We have gone as an industry, from almost entirely pc exclusives, to pc exclusives with console ports, to the current trend of pc ports from console games. Whatever your own reservations about it, this is the reality and when you finally realize it, then discussion over how it came to this can happen.

That might be a bit much to take in at once. I'm still attempting to get him to understand that Valve isn't as godly and diverse as he'd like to think.

I agree with your outlook; for better or for worse, devs are realizing that consoles are the smarter investment, and at some point, gamers everywhere will have to realize that gaming has exploded into the popular activity that it is because investors saw it as the new cash cow, and you better bet they were right about that. As demeaning as it may feel, and as much as you want to think otherwise, at the end of the day, we are just potential cashflow to devs. While there will always be a fun factor within the games and people will do it out of love for the game, the business practices that bring said games to you are just that, business practices.

Yeah, who could resist such unassailable truths as:

"(Half Life 2 and Team Fortress 2) play the exact same way. Almost same UI, slightly different guns, exact same controls"

To other Valve games being different from Half Life 2
"No, they're not. They have different textures and only slightly different objectives"

Its easy to prosthesis doom for PC - they've been doing it since 1985 - but not so easy when people actually challenge the assertions and you have revealed a remarkable ignorance of games in this regard. Your assertions and predictions are clearly worthless.

 

[fenrizz]

I don't even want to talk about the written law, 'cause that can be changed and is just a matter of definition.
Even if we call it "copyright infridgement", i always saw it as theft. Not in terms of: 1 physical copy left. It's takin' something without paying. That is, how i define theft.
Taking something, which doesnt belong to you, without asking/paying.

And even if you call it consensual sex, I always saw it as rape.

You calling it theft, and feeling that it is theft does not make it so.
What you choose to define it as is irrelevant, the law says otherwise and in the end that is what matters.

I also cringe at the "just a matter of definition" part of your argument.
A matter of definition is the difference between manslaughter and murder.

The argument: It doesnt equal one less product sold is also wrong, because if piracy is to easy, alot of people who'd buy the game otherwise, will pirate it and use the money to go out for dinner.
A small percentage of die hard pirates, will always exist, but to the extent right now?

It's just another small evidence, that nowadays alot of people lack education/manners.

That is not a "small evidence", as you so elegantly put it, it is merely your personal speculation.
The only experiment I can remember, but which I sadly cannot find at the moment, showed a piracy to real sale conversion of 0.1% (i.e. 1 in 1000).
The article was here on the Escapist though, so it should be possible to find it.

 

[Treblaine]

And by the way there are ways for banned consoles/players to still get back into Xbox Live, and to a similar extent on the PC networks.

Individual accounts cannot get back onto live. Consoles can (but last I checked it involves the messy business of screwing over another legitimate 360 console). Consoles are not banned by MAC addresses or IPs.

Yeah, this fits with my point that network-based anti-piracy are equal on console and PC: it is severe and both have various ways around it.

So for multiplayer focused games, piracy is not a major factor "losing sales" on ether console or PC.

EDIT: Screw it, I'm not sure what we're arguing about it this instance. I'm assuming by "anti-piracy" you're referring to how easy/simple it is to get banned on either platform, and if you are, I'm not sure what to say because I will admit that I don't know what context you're arguing in.

Yeah, the topic of this thread is piracy's affect on PC gaming. The point is that for online gaming piracy is a non-factor for any platform.

And online shooters are the most popular and lucrative games of this past decade with Halo, CoD, Gears and so on.

 

[PotluckBrigand]

And by the way there are ways for banned consoles/players to still get back into Xbox Live, and to a similar extent on the PC networks.

Individual accounts cannot get back onto live. Consoles can (but last I checked it involves the messy business of screwing over another legitimate 360 console). Consoles are not banned by MAC addresses or IPs.

Yeah, this fits with my point that network-based anti-piracy are equal on console and PC: it is severe and both have various ways around it.

So for multiplayer focused games, piracy is not a major factor "losing sales" on ether console or PC.

EDIT: Screw it, I'm not sure what we're arguing about it this instance. I'm assuming by "anti-piracy" you're referring to how easy/simple it is to get banned on either platform, and if you are, I'm not sure what to say because I will admit that I don't know what context you're arguing in.

Yeah, the topic of this thread is piracy's affect on PC gaming. The point is that for online gaming piracy is a non-factor for any platform.

And online shooters are the most popular and lucrative games of this past decade with Halo, CoD, Gears and so on.

In the last couple years games like Farmville have begun to overtake them, though, and with their VAST appeal to crowds that aren't traditional gamers (along with the apparent profitability of mobile games that are cheap... you can buy 60 shitty iPhone games for the price of one regular boxed release). If anything prophecies doom for gaming, PC or otherwise, it's this burgeoning army of non-game crap. It's already proven ridiculously profitable, and for companies that already love to nickel and dime us with more and more add-ons that have less and less content in them, it may only be a matter of time.

Pirates!

Uh... whatever people who aren't pirates are called!

The time has come to put aside our differences and join together to fight this impending cataclysm!

Later, though... gotta water my crops...

 

[Treblaine]

And by the way there are ways for banned consoles/players to still get back into Xbox Live, and to a similar extent on the PC networks.

Individual accounts cannot get back onto live. Consoles can (but last I checked it involves the messy business of screwing over another legitimate 360 console). Consoles are not banned by MAC addresses or IPs.

Yeah, this fits with my point that network-based anti-piracy are equal on console and PC: it is severe and both have various ways around it.

So for multiplayer focused games, piracy is not a major factor "losing sales" on ether console or PC.

EDIT: Screw it, I'm not sure what we're arguing about it this instance. I'm assuming by "anti-piracy" you're referring to how easy/simple it is to get banned on either platform, and if you are, I'm not sure what to say because I will admit that I don't know what context you're arguing in.

Yeah, the topic of this thread is piracy's affect on PC gaming. The point is that for online gaming piracy is a non-factor for any platform.

And online shooters are the most popular and lucrative games of this past decade with Halo, CoD, Gears and so on.

In the last couple years games like Farmville have begun to overtake them, though, and with their VAST appeal to crowds that aren't traditional gamers (along with the apparent profitability of mobile games that are cheap... you can buy 60 shitty iPhone games for the price of one regular boxed release). If anything prophecies doom for gaming, PC or otherwise, it's this burgeoning army of non-game crap. It's already proven ridiculously profitable, and for companies that already love to nickel and dime us with more and more add-ons that have less and less content in them, it may only be a matter of time.

Pirates!

Uh... whatever people who aren't pirates are called!

The time has come to put aside our differences and join together to fight this impending cataclysm!

Later, though... gotta water my crops...

Look, people aren't leaving Team Fortress 2 to play Farmville.

People are leaving Solitaire for Farmville. You know, the thing that the "non-gamer" average person waste away their office hours doing.

Don't mistake growth of something for substitution, there are about 1 billion computer users with access to the internet, and the majority of them don't plays ANY sort of games. For THEM Farmville is the best game they have played... by default. Farmville's success has more to do with how it exploits the particular Facebook network than it's inherent relative qualities, Farmville may be on the same platform as PC games but it isn't really competing with PC games like Team Fortress 2.

The thing is, people who have never played games before who start playing Farmville... this is a good thing. This is people who'd never consider gaming before are now into gaming a lot of them are going to consider more gaming on PC. I thing a small but significant proportion will move on to deeper games like on Steam and so on.

 

[Aeshi]

-Valve's games have been so unique-

I'm sorry but Valve's "game list" consists of the following:

Half-Life
Portal
TF2
L4D
Alien Swarm
Dota 2 (Soon (tm))

The only games on those list that they've actually made themselves are the first two, the rest are quite literally a former Half-Life mod, a former Counterstrike mod, a former UT2004 mod and a rip-off of the Dota map from Warcraft III.

If any other studio were to do even a quarter of this Earth's Atmosphere would probably become about 95% complaints and lawsuits.