Piracy - positive effect on sales

[Gindil]

Link [http://torrentfreak.com/internet-piracy-boosts-anime-sales-study-concludes-110203/]

A prestigious economics think-tank of the Japanese Government has published a study which concludes that online piracy of anime shows actually increases sales of DVDs. The conclusion stands in sharp contrast with the entertainment industry?s claims that ?illicit? downloading is leading to billions of dollars in losses worldwide. It also puts the increased anti-piracy efforts of the anime industry in doubt.

It's amazing how people come to the automatic conclusion that piracy kills media. If you read it correctly, it means there's demand for your product that is unfulfilled. Perhaps there's more people that want things free, but if you notice those people have friends, maybe you can make money in the deal.

Now, after the 18 people were arrested in Japan, someone in Japan through research, is coming out to say piracy isn't all that bad. Let's just hope those 18 are acquitted of wrong doing...

 

[x434343]

Hey, you know what else piracy does?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

Watch this, there's more effects than affecting the industry financially.

 

[Gindil]

Hey, you know what else piracy does?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

Watch this, there's more effects than affecting the industry financially.

Trust me [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.258307-Extra-Credits-Piracy?page=33#9787814] I love to discuss that thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.258307-Extra-Credits-Piracy?page=31#9775334]

Though I have to think that it's more than likely people are looking more for shared cultural experiences. Think about this... You watch it on youtube vs pirating it. How are they not the same?

You also discuss a game or anime on a forum. That may or may not show someone else that it's worth their time to invest in.

 

[x434343]

Hey, you know what else piracy does?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

Watch this, there's more effects than affecting the industry financially.

Trust me [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.258307-Extra-Credits-Piracy?page=33#9787814] I love to discuss that thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.258307-Extra-Credits-Piracy?page=31#9775334]

Though I have to think that it's more than likely people are looking more for shared cultural experiences. Think about this... You watch it on youtube vs pirating it. How are they not the same?

You also discuss a game or anime on a forum. That may or may not show someone else that it's worth their time to invest in.

How are they not the same? Active versus passive participation, plus the added ideals of modding the game and multiplayer, and personal achievement.

The fact is, with pirating, you're stealing Intellectual Property. If you honest-to-god have no way to obtain it because it is no longer sold or something like that, go ahead. If you pirate because you don't want to pay for it, then how is that different from lifting a Ferrari because you don't want to pay for one?

 

[inFAMOUSCowZ]

I think its still bad for the industry, example. Alan Wake sold less then a million copies total. When it comes to piracy it was in the top ten at a million. It was a good game, maybe not amazing but,still worth the 60$

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Hey, you know what else piracy does?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

Watch this, there's more effects than affecting the industry financially.

Trust me [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.258307-Extra-Credits-Piracy?page=33#9787814] I love to discuss that thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.258307-Extra-Credits-Piracy?page=31#9775334]

Though I have to think that it's more than likely people are looking more for shared cultural experiences. Think about this... You watch it on youtube vs pirating it. How are they not the same?

You also discuss a game or anime on a forum. That may or may not show someone else that it's worth their time to invest in.

How are they not the same? Active versus passive participation, plus the added ideals of modding the game and multiplayer, and personal achievement.

The fact is, with pirating, you're stealing Intellectual Property. If you honest-to-god have no way to obtain it because it is no longer sold or something like that, go ahead. If you pirate because you don't want to pay for it, then how is that different from lifting a Ferrari because you don't want to pay for one?

I think he was referring specifically to watching pirated movies and TV shows on youtube, which is exactly the same as downloading them from a torrent, at least ethically. As far as I know, the only reason it's different legally is because it would be almost impossible to prosecute someone for it. "Oh, I was watching a copyright infringing video? How was I supposed to know? Youtube okayed it." For a videogame equivalent, there's that website that had Sierra's back catalog playable in Flash, which Activision shut down, and then licensed to carry the first game of each series after they realized what good publicity it would be.

Edit: I'd just like to add, not everything is videogames, something a lot of people seem to forget when something not directly videogame related comes up on this site. In this case, sure, videogames may get pirated, but it's a drop in the bucket next to the number of people who pirate music and movies.

 

[Gindil]

Hey, you know what else piracy does?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

Watch this, there's more effects than affecting the industry financially.

Trust me [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.258307-Extra-Credits-Piracy?page=33#9787814] I love to discuss that thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.258307-Extra-Credits-Piracy?page=31#9775334]

Though I have to think that it's more than likely people are looking more for shared cultural experiences. Think about this... You watch it on youtube vs pirating it. How are they not the same?

You also discuss a game or anime on a forum. That may or may not show someone else that it's worth their time to invest in.

How are they not the same? Active versus passive participation, plus the added ideals of modding the game and multiplayer, and personal achievement.

The fact is, with pirating, you're stealing Intellectual Property. If you honest-to-god have no way to obtain it because it is no longer sold or something like that, go ahead. If you pirate because you don't want to pay for it, then how is that different from lifting a Ferrari because you don't want to pay for one?

Tangible goods is the first problem. Entertainment is meant to be shared and locking it up behind the concept of "Intellectual Property" is kind of misleading. If anything people automatically jump to the conclusion that if you pirate something, you won't pay for it. That's dubious at best. It isn't what's happening, second of all. Let's take an anime that I know...

One Piece. I love it to death but do you see how many chapters it has? It would cost $500 to be a fan. Money that I need for other goods. It's far easier for me to stream it online or read the manga immediately after it's translated. Yes, I plan to make an Usopp costume for A-Ko, but if One Piece wants my cash for so many chapters, it might be in their best interest to drop the price. Perhaps they can make up for it in volume, but still, the barrier is the price set. The problem with copyright in general is that it sets up the publisher to be a monopoly. These are always bad unless there's a way to compete with their offerings. I'll just say that much since I tend to go on far longer than necessary.

 

[Event_Horizon]

Gingil,

I made a similar post on one of your other piracy threads, and I'm sorry but creators have property rights, and you cannot infringe on those rights regardless on how beneficial it is to them. If you made a short story, and you wanted to put it on your own personal webspace and only that webspace for whatever reason, and someone went and posted it all over the internet, they would still be infringing on your personal property rights. Their argument could be "but I'm getting the word out, etc etc", but that would be a moot point since they are not adhering to your personal intent. How beneficial you see it is completely irrelevant - you are infringing on someone else's property rights.

My other post is

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.258389-Todays-Piracy-report?page=2#9929624

I have more to say there.

 

[Lilani]

So in other words, piracy doesn't directly enhance sales, however it does enhance interest in certain animes or animation studios, which in turn leads to more sales

 

[s0denone]

Tangible goods is the first problem. Entertainment is meant to be shared and locking it up behind the concept of "Intellectual Property" is kind of misleading. If anything people automatically jump to the conclusion that if you pirate something, you won't pay for it. That's dubious at best. It isn't what's happening, second of all. Let's take an anime that I know...

One Piece. I love it to death but do you see how many chapters it has? It would cost $500 to be a fan. Money that I need for other goods. It's far easier for me to stream it online or read the manga immediately after it's translated. Yes, I plan to make an Usopp costume for A-Ko, but if One Piece wants my cash for so many chapters, it might be in their best interest to drop the price. Perhaps they can make up for it in volume, but still, the barrier is the price set. The problem with copyright in general is that it sets up the publisher to be a monopoly. These are always bad unless there's a way to compete with their offerings. I'll just say that much since I tend to go on far longer than necessary.

So your argument is, in short:
"It is too expensive. It is easier for me to view free."

???

 

[Lilani]

One Piece. I love it to death but do you see how many chapters it has? It would cost $500 to be a fan.

Not necessarily. If you'd just do a little looking around, you'd notice that Funimation has most episodes of One Piece posted to stream online from their own web site and Hulu. You can also find either most or all of Bleach, Naruto, Naruto Shippuden, Death Note, and Black Butler along with a couple dozen more animes all on Hulu. And even if some episodes are limited to Hulu+ now (which last I checked they are not), $7.99/month for dozens of animes constantly being updated is much more reasonable than $500 on the spot for one, right? Not to mention all the other shows available on Hulu.

If you know where to look, you can experience plenty of legitimate anime on a bread and water budget.

 

[direkiller]

The fact is, with pirating, you're stealing Intellectual Property.

No no NO. Stealing intellectual property is a very specific offense that requires one to claim said IP in their own names and attempt to distribute/sell it, as though the were the original authors.

Intellectual Property is a term referring to items created from someones mind that they wish to receive financial compensation from.
here is the full definition

Intellectual property (IP) is a term referring to a number of distinct types of creations of the mind for which a set of exclusive rights are recognized?and the corresponding fields of law.[1] While these rights are not actually property rights, the term "Property" is used because they resemble property rights in many ways. Under intellectual property law, owners are granted certain exclusive rights to a variety of intangible assets, such as musical, literary, and artistic works; discoveries and inventions; and words, phrases, symbols, and designs.



So pirated is stealing IP. What your thinking of i believe is plagiarism and that is still a crime.

 

[Ekit]

Hey, you know what else piracy does?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

Watch this, there's more effects than affecting the industry financially.

Wow.

Did you think all of those points up all by yourself?

You do realise EC aren't the final say in all matters ever.

As it happens I personally completely disagree with pirating games. But I hate seeing people just regurgitating what EC say and expect it to be taken as innate fact.

Especially since Extra Credits failed to debunk (?) (don't know the proper word) the argument that games are too expensive.

OT: Maybe piracy could have a positive effect on gaming as a medium, but the only way I can see that happen is if gaming partly becomes funded by taxes, which could lead to more innovations and bigger risks taken since you wouldn't have to worry about making your money back. And I do think this is an important step if gaming is to become an art form.

Of course, games could evolve into an art form without being funded by taxes, but in that case it would probably take a longer time.

 

[Gindil]

One Piece. I love it to death but do you see how many chapters it has? It would cost $500 to be a fan.

Not necessarily. If you'd just do a little looking around, you'd notice that Funimation has most episodes of One Piece posted to stream online from their own web site and Hulu. You can also find either most or all of Bleach, Naruto, Naruto Shippuden, Death Note, and Black Butler along with a couple dozen more animes all on Hulu. And even if some episodes are limited to Hulu+ now (which last I checked they are not), $7.99/month for dozens of animes constantly being updated is much more reasonable than $500 on the spot for one, right? Not to mention all the other shows available on Hulu.

If you know where to look, you can experience plenty of legitimate anime on a bread and water budget.

I'm referring to the manga books.

50 chapters at $10 = too damn expensive.

So your argument is, in short:
"It is too expensive. It is easier for me to view free."

???

If you want a TLR version then that's a yes. Doesn't change that I like the series and support my favorite anime in other ways (such as making the costume or picking up other goods).

If you want to get technical, it's the same as me time shifting the anime to view when it's expedient for me

 

[spartan231490]

Link [http://torrentfreak.com/internet-piracy-boosts-anime-sales-study-concludes-110203/]

A prestigious economics think-tank of the Japanese Government has published a study which concludes that online piracy of anime shows actually increases sales of DVDs. The conclusion stands in sharp contrast with the entertainment industry?s claims that ?illicit? downloading is leading to billions of dollars in losses worldwide. It also puts the increased anti-piracy efforts of the anime industry in doubt.

It's amazing how people come to the automatic conclusion that piracy kills media. If you read it correctly, it means there's demand for your product that is unfulfilled. Perhaps there's more people that want things free, but if you notice those people have friends, maybe you can make money in the deal.

Now, after the 18 people were arrested in Japan, someone in Japan through research, is coming out to say piracy isn't all that bad. Let's just hope those 18 are acquitted of wrong doing...

You can have a study that says almost anything, doesn't mean it's true. Have you ever had any economics class? Because Demand is related to price, so just because more people want it free than want to pay for it, doesn't mean there is unfulfilled demand. It just means that there are people who want it free, but aren't willing to pay. It's only unfulfilled if they pirate because they can't find copies to pay for, which I doubt.

 

[Gindil]

Link [http://torrentfreak.com/internet-piracy-boosts-anime-sales-study-concludes-110203/]

A prestigious economics think-tank of the Japanese Government has published a study which concludes that online piracy of anime shows actually increases sales of DVDs. The conclusion stands in sharp contrast with the entertainment industry?s claims that ?illicit? downloading is leading to billions of dollars in losses worldwide. It also puts the increased anti-piracy efforts of the anime industry in doubt.

It's amazing how people come to the automatic conclusion that piracy kills media. If you read it correctly, it means there's demand for your product that is unfulfilled. Perhaps there's more people that want things free, but if you notice those people have friends, maybe you can make money in the deal.

Now, after the 18 people were arrested in Japan, someone in Japan through research, is coming out to say piracy isn't all that bad. Let's just hope those 18 are acquitted of wrong doing...

You can have a study that says almost anything, doesn't mean it's true. Have you ever had any economics class? Because Demand is related to price, so just because more people want it free than want to pay for it, doesn't mean there is unfulfilled demand. It just means that there are people who want it free, but aren't willing to pay. It's only unfulfilled if they pirate because they can't find copies to pay for, which I doubt.

NBC just did a 50+ page study on this. When there's no/less legal alternative, piracy increases.

When there are, it decreases. That is economics.

See for yourself [http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2011/02/nbc_universal-commissioned_stu.html].



If you want, I can pull in other examples to back up my argument.

 

[spartan231490]

Link [http://torrentfreak.com/internet-piracy-boosts-anime-sales-study-concludes-110203/]

A prestigious economics think-tank of the Japanese Government has published a study which concludes that online piracy of anime shows actually increases sales of DVDs. The conclusion stands in sharp contrast with the entertainment industry?s claims that ?illicit? downloading is leading to billions of dollars in losses worldwide. It also puts the increased anti-piracy efforts of the anime industry in doubt.

It's amazing how people come to the automatic conclusion that piracy kills media. If you read it correctly, it means there's demand for your product that is unfulfilled. Perhaps there's more people that want things free, but if you notice those people have friends, maybe you can make money in the deal.

Now, after the 18 people were arrested in Japan, someone in Japan through research, is coming out to say piracy isn't all that bad. Let's just hope those 18 are acquitted of wrong doing...

You can have a study that says almost anything, doesn't mean it's true. Have you ever had any economics class? Because Demand is related to price, so just because more people want it free than want to pay for it, doesn't mean there is unfulfilled demand. It just means that there are people who want it free, but aren't willing to pay. It's only unfulfilled if they pirate because they can't find copies to pay for, which I doubt.

NBC just did a 50+ page study on this. When there's no/less legal alternative, piracy increases.

When there are, it decreases. That is economics.

See for yourself [http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2011/02/nbc_universal-commissioned_stu.html].



If you want, I can pull in other examples to back up my argument.

No need, this makes sense. But there aren't a whole lot of places where there is so little ability to buy the product legally. And in the places where it's easy to get legal copies, piracy hurts sales, so the overall effect is still significantly negative.
Also, did they really need a study to confirm this? People who dislike piracy will pirate if they have no means of getting their hands on legal copies. That's common sense.

 

[Kakashi on crack]

Piracy is good if it has good intentions/reasons

It's when people create excuses of why they pirate movies/games that it becomes a problem.

And I seriously don't think people can't afford it... If they can afford the programs to look up the stuff, afford the memberships for higher-end pirate sites, afford the computers, afford the disks if they are burning them onto it, afford the cost of a good antivirus program, and afford the cost of the internet they have to pay for to pirate things as well as many other things I could bring up... I don't see why they can't afford a single game

 

[s0denone]

Piracy is good if it has good intentions/reasons

Like what?
Besides "Cannot be obtained legally", what "good" reasons/intentions are there?

 

[Gindil]

No need, this makes sense. But there aren't a whole lot of places where there is so little ability to buy the product legally. And in the places where it's easy to get legal copies, piracy hurts sales, so the overall effect is still significantly negative.
Also, did they really need a study to confirm this? People who dislike piracy will pirate if they have no means of getting their hands on legal copies. That's common sense.

No, but some people tend to believe that I'm just ranting and raving unless I have facts to back it up.

Here's where it actually gets complex. If the price is set too high, it creates a black market effect. $20 to someone in the US who makes more disposable income won't hurt them to buy one DVD. Places like the Ukraine, $20 holds a lot more value than the purchase. So it's more likely that people will pirate there than anywhere else. Price differentiation is pretty important for different places. That's true even now for anime in general. IIRC, there's you still find DBZ for $20 a DVD, which makes NO sense considering it's damn near 30...? There have got to be better ways to make money than think one DVD of a really old series, holds that much value, when you can watch the entire thing for a lot less than that.

The main thing is, as I mentioned, 18 were arrested [http://torrentfreak.com/police-arrest-18-alleged-movie-music-and-software-uploaders-110115/] for copyright infringement recently. What I'm to believe, is that they used a filesharing service for a few dollars cheapness. Had they have had better alternatives (DVDs are EXPENSIVE in Japan - $25 when income net income in a month is ~$300 for some people...) they might not have done this.

So legal copies are one thing, the right pricing is another. Even then, alternatives can be found out and experimented with. Funny thing is, Youtube has come out to say the same thing about its service whereas Hulu is struggling to find solvency.