Piracy, simply put.

[M920CAIN]

Piracy's not stealing, because nothing is taken. They never had my money. They make the case they'd gotten it without piracy, but since I've probably streamed more movies than my cumulative net worth, that argument is defeated by simple math.
My landlord is probably not going to like the idea of me re-prioritizing my expenditures to the purchase of entertainment products.

Some say you shouldn't download stuff you can't or don't want to afford. Why? Who's that helping? Who's getting paid in Karma points?
"Dear EA, last month I didn't buy or download any of your games. You're welcome!"

"I wouldn't have bought it or can't afford to buy it anyway" is not an excuse.

People don't get critizised for waiting a year until the retail price drops to $10.

I'd hazard a guess that's because they aren't breaking any laws.

Well, they might as well download the game right away and mail the dev $10. Personal asketicism during one's time of abstinence isn't helping their employees pay the rent anyway.

Absurd.

Buy a game second hand - you might as well pirate it. "But people have always sold off things and bought used things." Yes. This truth still doesn't help the devs pay the rent.
A clean conscience isn't valid currency in the free market economy.

Absurd and already-refuted argument.

I don't hoard money. Can't. I spend all my income. Every month. I'm doing my part. Why should I not get stuff free when it doesn't hurt no-one? Me downloading a CD doesn't diminish the record company's ability to sell it to somebody else.

Because while your individual download of something may not hurt anyone, the collective of people doing it can and often does. Depending on how you got your download, it may help others download it and/or encourage further piracy.

Let's say I need to ride the bus home. I only have five dollars on me. I can't pay more. But five dollars is only gonna get me within four blocks. The bus is empty, or at least empty enough, so I don't take nobody's seat. Who is helped by me getting off the bus to walk the rest? (apart from my health)The bus is going there anyway, I don't diminish any paying customer's ability use it.

And at the next stop there's a group of two-dozen polka dancers waiting. Stupid analogy is stupid.

What kind of twisted Christian guilt morality makes one assume it is wrong to just ride the bus until home?

Not even gonna bite at that flamebait...

What does that conscience say when you proudly buy a video game full price like a good patriot, and then play it on the X-Box that is only so cheap because some legal slave in China assembled it for 2 bucks a day, while you're wearing the T-Shirt that some Indonesian kid sowed instead of going to school?

Aren't we accustomed to screwing people over by now?

Let's stick to the topic shall we?

Spoiler: Also, IN B4....

OP makes good points. You sir are an i-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------nconsiderate.
The truth is piracy is nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be. But indoctrinated people will say otherwise. I believe the support the developer whenever you can policy, but not when supporting means screwing myself over for jacked up prices.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

IMO Piracy can only happen when money is involved when no money is involved in it's distribution its nothing but information that should not be messed with as its going to be one of the last few freedoms we will have left.

If you go after all the sites taking in donations or ad rev or direct selling the IP without a licenses you will reduce file sharing so much more than trying to go after everyone who posts on the internet.

 

[ablac]

The publishers and devs are businesses. They are not trying to be unfair or screw you over they are trying to make money. If they charge at a certain price it is because that is where they think they will make the most money from their sale. This is the fact of almost every market. If you do not like the price then you do not have to buy the game. However the price being set too high is in no way justification for you to then go and obtain the product from someone else, whom has no right to be providing it to anyone else morally and legally, for free. If oyu would not have bought it then dont buy it. Games are not a need so if the creators (publishers fund it so they are partly the creators) choose to charge for it then you should pay to enjoy their product or go without.

 

[ablac]

How bout this. Defending piracy is incredible arrogance. If everyone pirated games then there would be no games made as there would not be any money to support their development nor would there be any incentive to create them. This is irrefutable.

Argument refuted by the existence of freeware.

Argument refuted by the fact of most freeware being either really old programs or trial versions of programs that have to be paid for.

I can win discussions too by pretending reality contorts itself to fit what I'm trying to say too.

I said in a later post that if they choose to charge for it then you must pay or go without and that you are not justified to take any other option. Freeware is fine because the creator intended it to be free. The argument still stands for everything else i just didnt think about freeware when i first wrote the post.

 

[AnarchistFish]

I honestly believe that when I pirate, I'm not doing something immoral, at all. Illegal? Sure, yeah, but that doesn't take into account the context.

All piracy has done is allow me to let me listen to as much music as I want, discover new bands that I would never have bothered with otherwise, and let me pick the albums I've then wanted to purchase physically. I haven't spent any less money on music than I would have if I were forced to purchase everything. If anything I've spent more, because this way I'm guaranteed to be contributing to an artist I genuinely like. And trust me, I spend a lot on music.

Oh yes, let's just look at what it's done for you. That's the way to determine whether something is ethical or not.

What's unethical is that you enjoy it for free, when those who own it do not wish to give it away. Doesn't matter how much else you spend on music, that bought you the music you got, not rights to other music.

So who's losing out? Who's directly losing out?

So, who's being resurrected from the dead? Who!?

Or in a more direct way of saying things, now with 100% less sarcasm... I never said anyone was losing out so don't ask me stupid questions. No one needs to lose out for it to be unethical.

I didn't say you said that, but as far as I see it, if the artist isn't actually being negatively affected by me downloading their music, I don't see why it's a problem. Maybe on the face of it it's unethical, but that's an extremely narrow minded way of looking at it.

Oh so you're only looking at benefit. Well that's a very narrow minded way of looking at it.

Oh wait, just saying something is narrow minded doesn't actually show that it is! Do I get a Nobel prize for this stunning discovery? I'll settle for a good argument for how it is narrow minded though instead of your worthless attempt at dismissal.

I've already said. It doesn't take into account the context.

You didn't say that. Look at your posts. Also, just saying "Context" is a horrible argument. Why, in this case, should the context change anything about it? The context doesn't necessarily give a different conclusion. Just saying 'context' is a lazy and unintelligent argument.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.339792-Piracy-simply-put?page=3#13749519
And before you say that legality is different to ethics; you're pretty much deriving that it's unethical from the fact that it's illegal.

I guess the thing here is that I'm taking a utilitarian stance here, and you're not. Nothing can really change that.

On a side note, why are you taking such a self-righteous and superior stance here?

Wow, you really are trying hard to be ridiculous here. Where the fuck did I derive it from it being illegal? I didn't. You're using a strawman. Goes in line with your other horrible arguments.

Well you could stop being so full of yourself claiming that because I disagree I have a narrow view. That could change.

Side note: I find the arguments here rather awful. I am going to be scathing towards awful arguments. It isn't being self-righteous. Btw, great laugh hearing you talk about self-righteous and superior what with the 'context' shit you tried to pull earlier.

Ok then. So are you going to actually explain your argument instead of just insulting mine and finding any tedious detail possible in an attempt to undermine it rather than just face it head on?

 

[RubyT]

I don't know whether to laugh at your posts, get mad or cry. If you're a troll consider your mission fucking accomplished. If you're not, then I wish to express a particular sentiment. That would be, go fuck yourself. You moron. I don't know how people like you get this unwarranted sense of entitlement. There are so many things I want to say to you, but god damn I just can't get over this unbelievable arrogance of yours.

I thought about ridiculing your post, but I understand that you are genuinely upset. That was not my intention.

Maybe I am arrogant. Though I don't mean to be. On purpose.

But I do have a sense of entitlement. And so should you.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

I'll said it once and I'll say it again, (with less insulting this time).

If you are not willing to pay for a good, or service; and the provider is not willing to give away said good, or service, then you are not entitled to it!

It's that simple.

Piracy is the same as shoplifting. There being no "physical object to steal" is completely irrelevant.

You want to make sure SOPA stays dead? Want to keep other bills like it from seeing the light of day? Then start by not supporting piracy.
Hack the pirates, Anonymous!
As long as the internet is seen as a safe haven for pirates then likes of SOPA and PIPA will continue to show their ugly, ugly heads.

If a game publisher, or developer, has angered you then don't buy their games and don't play their games. If you want to take a stance against a company then get a spine and actually make a real sacrifice.

 

[proctorninja2]

waiting for mod wrath, though at the end of the day however people feel about piracy its still illigal and is not a force of good

 

[Alterego-X]

waiting for mod wrath, though at the end of the day however people feel about piracy its still illigal and is not a force of good

Then obviously it needs to be legalized, so it would be a force of good.

 

[Chris Pond]

Ultimately, piracy equates to obtaining something without paying for it, if we all did it, no one would make any money, so no one would bother using their own money to make the things that are being pirated.

Ironically, the majority of pirated games are, presumably, AAA titles like Modern Warfare and Battlefield, titles that will eventually stop being made once the companies that make them stop making back the money they invest.

I guess that makes it fortunate that Indie games are becoming so much easier to put together in people's spare time, because sooner or later, those are the only games we'll have left.

 

[Alterego-X]

Ultimately, piracy equates to obtaining something without paying for it, if we all did it, no one would make any money, so no one would bother using their own money to make the things that are being pirated.

Squashing a mosquito on your arm contributes to destroying our planet, because if we would squash every mosquito in the world, the extinction of the species would screw up the ecosystem.

That's a logical fallacy. I'm not sure which one, probably related to Slippery Slope. No one who argues that piracy is not immoral, suggests that everyone should always pirate everything.

In fact, even many people who actively pirate, AND argue in favor of piracy, are still frequently buying media as well.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Simply put?

You're a freeloader. If you can't afford it, than it's probably not something you need to be using in the first place. Your who argument is "I'm taking it one way of the other", when you really should be making "adult" decisions and saying "Well, I guess I don't need entertainment seeing how it's not a life essential thing"

 

[Ascarus]

Piracy's not stealing, because nothing is taken. They never had my money. They make the case they'd gotten it without piracy, but since I've probably streamed more movies than my cumulative net worth, that argument is defeated by simple math.

this argument is pure justification and rationalization. simple as that. if you didn't want it, why did you bother to download it? that alone proves you wanted it enough to go and get it. you simply didn't want to pay for it.

piracy is about copyright law. not about your particular excuses used to make you feel better about stealing.

 

[spectrenihlus]

Do I think charging $40 for a re-release of a game over a decade old is too much? I certainly do.

How would this be justification to pirate it instead of just doing without it?

Do I think you are justified to torrent a game if its DRM is holding it back, and a group of modders have removed it from the equation? I certainly do.

Are you at least expecting them to buy a regular copy? DRM isn't justification to get it for free.

What difference is it to the publisher if you pirated something vs not downloading it at all. They don't get payed either way.

And? They'd rather you don't do it and it is their intellectual property.

A lot of publishers Are living in and old model. If they truly wished fight piracy they would stop selling all brand new games at $60.

If you truly wished to be taken seriously you wouldn't make such a stupid statement. They do want to fight it. Saying their methods are ineffective says nothing about motive.

Take for example a game of thrones I literally called up a hbo to find some way just to watch this show without buying all of hbo. I DON'T HAVE THAT OPTION I can only watch a game of thrones if I subscribe to hbo. This is unacceptable, I wish to pay for a product and I am unable to.

It's only unacceptable if you feel that you're entitled to it. But since you're not, it isn't unacceptable.

No I am not entitled to it however, the reason HBO developed the show was to create a profit. I offered to pay just to watch that show as I did not want to watch any of their other shows. Why do you think netflix is so popular, I can choose to watch a show that I want when I want for a VERY low monthly fee compared to satellite and cable. THAT is the future and if the publishers cannt change their system then they die simply put. What pirates are offering is a superior product simply put.

That's nice. So, are you going to tell me the price of tea in China now, or something else that I don't care about? I don't care whether their business model is particularly good. It doesn't need to be for it to be unethical to pirate. A lack of efficiency does not mean that ownership of the copyright should not exist.

They're not offering a superior product, they're giving away someone else's.

If they can't provide a better product than what the pirates have then they fail simply put. Like I said in another thread by going the legalistic route you do not solve the problem you are trying to kill a hydra by chopping off heads. The only way to kill piracy is to offer a better product and until you do so piracy will continue.

 

[Alterego-X]

Simply put?

You're a freeloader. If you can't afford it, than it's probably not something you need to be using in the first place. Your who argument is "I'm taking it one way of the other", when you really should be making "adult" decisions and saying "Well, I guess I don't need entertainment seeing how it's not a life essential thing"

And what's WRONG with freeloading? Why is it less "adult" to enjoy all the available content, than to follow the letter of the law and stay away from it? Does it make anyone's life better? Does it contribute to anything?

Otherwise, you are stating some obvious things. I didn't ever see anyone argue that piracy is an essential "need", and I saw lots of people arguing in favor of piracy. Posting on a forum isn't a need either, yet you are doing it. Is there anything wrong with that?