Piracy staying legal in Switzerland - "Pirates still contribute"

[Epona]

People know that this data is not created freely - that developers work, and need paid. That reality should dissuade people from deciding that 'data is free'.

..and yet piracy is alive and well. Fact is, data can be copied for free and with that in mind, it devalues that same data being sold for $60. Just sayin...

 

[meowchef]

This is the line of thinking the Torchlight developers have.

Apparently every man woman and child in China has an illegal copy of Torchlight... but they just figure that's more potential customers to buy the Torchlight MMO.

 

[TheOneBearded]

In my opinion, piracy is fine as long as it is something small like a song. If you start stealing more expensive things like fully priced, new 60 dollar games, then that is a problem.

 

[Something Amyss]

so, what they are saying is that it's ok to steal things if you can't afford it?

Only if you later buy the same things. Or something.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

Swizerland: so neutral, they don't take sides in piracy debates.
"yeah you can pirate. you'll probably buy it anyway... everybody wins."

 

[Yopaz]

Edit: posted the wrong quote.

"since people eventually spend the money saved on entertainment products."

Umm.......that's a pretty flawed statement.

I mean come on, there's absolutely NOTHING stopping them from merely stealing music, films, games and not paying. Piracy is weird.

There's nothing preventing me from downloading all my movies, music and games either even though it's not legal. Yet I buy it whenever it is humanly possible to obtain it with legal means. Even though I have pirated a few things there's a lot more I have purchased.

 

[DanDeFool]

"since people eventually spend the money saved on entertainment products."

Umm.......that's a pretty flawed statement.

I mean come on, there's absolutely NOTHING stopping them from merely stealing music, films, games and not paying. Piracy is weird.

Maybe they just decided that deciding to rely on people's good nature (as dubious as that prospect may be) is better than saying that a full third of their population should be thrown in jail or fined into bankruptcy.

I mean, what else can they do? I guess revising copyright law such that non-commercial infringers suffer less severe penalties and trying to make the law easier to enforce. But then, finding a way to do both of those things and keep everyone happy is a tall order.

 

[Shilefin]

Wow, someone in power doing something sensible for once. You don't see that alot nowadays. I mean, even if i don't agree completly, that solution is way better then the SOPA(not that being better then SOPA is some kind of grand achievement) and banning piracy laws in general. Appealing to the fanbase rather than making them have to go trough even more crap.

 

[Legendsmith]

What a great world it would be if I could steal a car by copy/pasting it.

Well yeah, you'd be in a post-scarcity society. Which would be awesome.
Too bad that humanity will never reach that.

 

[Dryk]

This study makes me really want to see how all the claims of lost sales from media companies stack up against how much spending money the world has kicking around in any one year. Odds are you'll find that most of those sales can't be lost because the world couldn't afford them in the first place.

And yet the legitimate consumer is increasingly made to suffer for it -_-


What's really interesting is that it's possible that this sort of business and discussion is what keeps people on the straight and narrow to begin with, which would mean that the best way to combat piracy is to kick up a lot of fuss about it and make it LOOK like you're doing something, but actually standing back and letting people go about their business.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

I think their logic is more on the person to person sharing (similar to having the police knock on your door cause you lent your friend a game back in the 1990). They further make the connection that the majority of pirates (as has been evident in these forums) actually use piracy less for indefinite obtaining of a game and more for short term purposes, and would be more than willing to obtain a hard copy of the game as and when possible (DLC possibly fucking this model over).
Hence, their view is, while it is a poential problem, it is not significant enough, all factors considered, to warrant policing. (All factors here including effects on freedoms and difficulty in operation)

Aye. What I find to be somewhat amusing is the fact that the only one politician instantly getting all riled up and declaring war on the decision from the government's carpet floor happens to be a socialist, Geraldine Savary. Oh, maybe it's worth mentioning that she's also the one asking the innocent question translating to "Do we need new laws against internet piracy?".

http://www.letemps.ch/Page/Uuid/514e8540-1b56-11e1-a7e5-d1124107b0a4/Le_Conseil_f%C3%A9d%C3%A9ral_renonce_%C3%A0_lutter_contre_le_piratage_sur_Internet

While I don't know her personally, I am currently under the impression that, as usual, she doesn't have much of a clue about what she's talking about. Her focus seems to be on "local, Swiss (music) artists who find it hard to make a living", which, although easily confirmed as true might be due to non-interest of the industry, non-existance of efficient marketing channels or, sorry, the lack of quality in what some of them output as "art". Those folks actually making money off making music and selling CDs and vinyl either do everything themselves or they go to Germany for the German-speaking part of Switzerland or to France for the French-speaking part respectively. A new law would not help sell more records from those that suck anyway, it would only open up a legal channel of (artifical) revenue for them. That's my stance.

 

[Wintermoot]

yeah that,s the polar opposite of the SOPA
then again who can honestly say they never download a movie/song?

 

[Prince Regent]

Perhaps it makes more sense in Swiss

Yeah because that's a real language...

OT: So is pirating software illegal/punishablein the US? Im not really certain how the law is there. Here in the Netherlands (and in most of europe as far as I know) pirating software is legal. As borrowing a book from someone else is legal so "borrowing" software from someone is too.

 

[Thyunda]

In all fairness, I rarely actually buy music. However, I always buy games. Tried pirating one once, and it was such a hassle I stopped bothering. The game was Duke Nukem Forever, and I just wanted to see if it would actually run on my laptop. It won't. Also, it's awful.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Perhaps it makes more sense in Swiss

Yeah because that's a real language...

OT: So is pirating software illegal/punishablein the US? Im not really certain how the law is there. Here in the Netherlands (and in most of europe as far as I know) pirating software is legal. As borrowing a book from someone else is legal so "borrowing" software from someone is too.

Wow, and your economy still hasn't imploded yet?

If G-d doesn't flood your country and kill you all I am pretty sure SOPA, HADOPI, ACTA, BREIN and whatnot will flood your country with legal fecal matter... good luck.

 

[Therumancer]

"since people eventually spend the money saved on entertainment products."

Umm.......that's a pretty flawed statement.

I mean come on, there's absolutely NOTHING stopping them from merely stealing music, films, games and not paying. Piracy is weird.

You are correct.

One thing you have to understand is that there are economic concerns behind all of this. If a country like Switzerland decides to ban piracy it then has to enforce those laws, which means putting people in jail which costs money. Not to mention the damages that would be paid to the companies holding the IP which is money that leaves the swiss economy and generally winds up in the economy of the company's parent nation.

Piracy also allows them to absorb this material while not having to pay for it, which means less money leaving in generla. Claiming that the money is "eventually spent on entertainment media" as a justification is purely lulzworthy as they struggle for a justification.

This is why I have pointed out on numerous occasions that really the only way to see this kind of thing enforced, either in terms of personal use, or people violating IP/copyright laws to make money, is to push the issue with the military. The only time a nation participating in these kinds of policies is going to be advantageous is if it has as many, or more, of it's own IPs going elsewhere in the international marketplace. While I'm sure the Swiss make movies and TV shows, video games and other media, they don't produce anything close to what the US or UK does, an accurate trade arrangement based on media exchange would wind up with a lot more money leaving the Swiss economy on that front than entering it.... and really, trillions of dollars floating into say US companies based on media where the Swiss get nothing to show for it except some transient fun, is not something the goverment sees as healthy for the nation and it's independance.

Honestly, given how invested the US and some of it's allies are in the media nowadays, I have been of the opinion we do need to start making some rather bloody examples. Few countries are going to pass the kinds of laws we're talking about when there is nothing to gain, and even less are going to pass them when it's liable to result in a lot of money leaving their economy, yet with the global situation the US and other media producing powers need that money to enter our own economies given that we are producing the product.

Understand I'm generally both anti-pirate, and anti-game/media industry.

 

[IzisviAziria]

Another piracy thread.

"One in three people in Switzerland download unauthorized music, movies and games from the Internet and since last year the government has been wondering what to do about it. This week their response was published and it was crystal clear. Not only will downloading for personal use stay completely legal, but the copyright holders won?t suffer because of it, since people eventually spend the money saved on entertainment products."


Moral absolutes aside (stealing is wrong & developers should be supported), this seems to makes logical sense. It's tantamount to free advertising; the building of a fan-base who will spend cash on the medium when they can.

The problem is that the figures just don't match up with this interpretation. Most people who pirate will not go on to buy the game legitmately, otherwise that figure the Witcher 2 released last week of 1 in 5 copies being pirated would have ended 'but then we sold another 4 million anyway.' Did it? No, because most people who had pirated the game then didn't go on to buy it.

Of those 4 million that pirated and didn't purchase though, the VAST majority were never going to purchase the game anyway. They downloaded the game because they were interested or curious, but not enough to want to buy it. It's like having a friend who bought the game and going over to their house to play it for a bit because you want to see what it's like.

They probably did, however, use the money they didn't spend on The Witcher 2 to purchase a game they were more seriously interested in playing. You're slightly misinterpreting the statement. They said they'd later spend the money somewhere else in the entertainment industry; not necessarily in the same place. Save money in one place, spend it somewhere else.

I'm not convinced that Switzerland is going about this the right way, I'm not advocating piracy. Just trying to clarify some of the arguments being presented.

 

[repeating integers]

yeah that,s the polar opposite of the SOPA
then again who can honestly say they never download a movie/song?

At this point in my life, I can honestly say that. I've no idea how long it'll stay like that, but I don't plan on breaking the law at any point in the foreseeable future, being a wimp who is terrified of being found out and punished.

 

[Jonluw]

They seem to be having the right idea if you ask me.
Only once have I discovered an piece of entertainment medium I liked through means that required me to pay for it (a book-club).
I have listened to Depapepe for a good while now, without ever paying for it. I watch videos on youtube and the likes. But if I were to come across an album of theirs in the local record store, I'd probably buy it.

 

[Takuanuva]

"since people eventually spend the money saved on entertainment products."

Umm.......that's a pretty flawed statement.

I mean come on, there's absolutely NOTHING stopping them from merely stealing music, films, games and not paying. Piracy is weird.

...actually, it makes sense.
Let's say you are some average guy with average wages, from which you can afford, let's say, $50 on strictly personal uses.
Now, you're downloading mp3s from the internet without paying. You just saved some of your personal-use money. You WILL spend them sooner or later though...and one way or another, it will go into entertainment.
The person who owns rights to the music lost his money though, didn't he? Well, that's possible, but someone else gained it, maybe even him. People wouldn't spend more money than they could afford, and they sooner or later spend the money they saved on some form of entertainment. The amount of money stays the same, it's just located in diferent places, and even that isn't necesarily true, since they might spend their saved money on the goods they- more or less- stole.
...yeah...that is actually a quite good strategy...there is no point in fighting piracy, because it causes pretty much no harm on the bigger scale. Fighting it, on the other hand...