Planescape Torment: Am I doing something wrong?

[LordRoyal]

No its not, its just a question of what your expectations are. This is a D&D game, if you don't like D&D then you almost certainly wont like it either.

I don't think liking D&D is a prerequisite for liking the gameplay in Planescape: Torment. I thoroughly enjoy a good bit of D&D and I found Plancescape's combat to be an exercise in complete and utter tedium.

Bare in mind that the game isn't focused on combat. Infact combat is pretty broken all things considered when you get more xp from dialogue. So playing a mage is in fact the most logical class to play. But another factor is that Planescape I think runs on AD&D. Which is pretty obsolete by today's D&D standards really.

In any case, I thought Planescape Torment a lot easier to play after Baldur's Gate. For one Baldur's Gate's gameplay I found was significantly more difficult and after trial and error I became more accustomed to the "sink or swim" style gameplay.

 

[Continuity]

Because it creates utterly needless fiddling when using the inventory.

For example, just say I have two characters with full inventories and I want to take an item from one character and give equip it to another (a common situation). The process would go as follows:
1) Select receiving character.
2) Get receiving character to drop item.
3) Select giving character.
4) Move desired item from giving character to receiving character.
5) Select receiving character.
6) Equip desired item.
7) Retrieve dropped item.

For comparison, here is how would I do the same thing in Dragon Age's nice shared inventory:
1) Select receiving character.
2) Double-click desired item.
3) Done.

You're giving no allowance for the age of the game, you cant expect the level of polish you find in modern games in a game that's over 10 years old, and really inventory management is a pretty small complaint in the big scheme of things.

What kind of excuse is that? So... the game is eclusively for DnD players?

Well, the would certainly explain why this kind of game is rapidly going the way of the dodo.

You have to bear in mind that at the time this was made the majority of RPG players were D&D players. its not that they created a game exclusively for a niche market, at the time the D&D player were pretty much the whole market.

It's not so much a case needing a helping hand. The gameplay isn't hard or challenging. Just dull. I was kind of hoping that the game might introduce some new elements or something.

You want an old game to introduce something new o_o are you even serious?

You keep refering to "the gameplay" and I have a sinking feeling that you mean the combat by this... the gameplay in an RPG =/= the combat, its mostly around character design and plot / dialogue tree progression (you build a character and propel them though the story, or in other word you role play). Post up your character details and I'll tell you if you need a helping hand or not.

HAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaheheheheheheee... hehehee... heh.

30 hours. Ha!

No game gets 30 hours to impress me. It gets maybe three. Five max. The fact that Planescape Torment has got significantly more than that out of me says a lot about the quality of its story and setting.

Well thats entirely up to you, i'm not saying it needs 30 hours to impress you i'm just trying to convey that you've only scratched the surface. Its like reading the first page of a book and then throwing it away saying it didn't grip you enough. But you also have to realise this is one of the key elements of CRPG, i.e. spending hundred of hours playing the game to get the most out of it, thats part of the appeal.

 

[Paularius]

Old games like this wernt holding your hand easy like games are these days.
I sound old for 24 >.<
They had a bit more complexity which i loved. If your used to the games now days where everything is automaticly done for you so you can get back to the killing quicker then yea, your going to find this kind of old style playing as tedious.

 

[Zhukov]

You're giving no allowance for the age of the game, you cant expect the level of polish you find in modern games in a game that's over 10 years old, and really inventory management is a pretty small complaint in the big scheme of things.

I'm not sure if that's a valid excuse. A smooth inventory system does not require cutting edge current-gen technology. If I was picking on the graphics or something then sure, I would see where you're coming from.

You have to bear in mind that at the time this was made the majority of RPG players were D&D players. its not that they created a game exclusively for a niche market, at the time the D&D player were pretty much the whole market.

Fair enough.

You want an old game to introduce something new o_o are you even serious?

I don't mean new for video games generally. Yeah, that would be silly. I mean new to this one game. Like some more abilities or something. Perhaps some more things like Morte's insult ability that makes enemy mages run up and try to punch him (which is incidentally hilarious). That would improve things.

Post up your character details and I'll tell you if you need a helping hand or not.

Sure, why not.
Level 5, fighter.

STR: 15
INT: 17
WIS: 15
DEX: 10
CON: 10
CHA: 10

He talks well and he fights okay. Tends to miss a lot for some reason.

 

[Macrobstar]

How can a game thats only good in one aspect but terrible in another be so loved by loads of people?

 

[AlternatePFG]

See, I got about 10 hours in this game twice, but every time I got so far in the game, my saves corrupted. I really liked it, but there's no way in hell I'm playing through the first part again just for a chance for the game to corrupt.

Anyway, the gameplay is just pretty bad. Personally, it did not bother me, as there is not a whole lot of it but it can get annoying.

 

[plugav]

The simple answer is no, the gameplay doesn't get any better (it's still simpler than Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale, I think). It's your PC calculating dice throws in D&D game turns played real fast (same as KotOR but worse). However, at some point you do stop sucking at combat so much.

Also, there are a lot of stat bonuses and unique items hidden around the game. I had to refer to a guide on how to get some of them, though. For example, Wisdom, the least useful of all the stats gameplay-wise, is also most important when it comes to unlocking new memories and dialogue options.

As a friend put it, Planescape: Torment might have worked better as a point-and-click adventure game. Because it's not about the gameplay, it's about the story. Or, actually, discovering the story is the gameplay. As you progress, you notice that fighting is just an intermission (in some cases an optional one).

On a final note, it's pointless to compare Torment or Fallout to Dragon Age. It's like comparing Stoker's Dracula to King's Salem's Lot - of course the latter reads better, but it wouldn't exist without the former. Rome wasn't built in a day, as they tell you. Quick and easy inventory systems weren't either.

 

[Pipotchi]

How can a game thats only good in one aspect but terrible in another be so loved by loads of people?

Because the story is a lot better than the combat is bad, if that makes sense. I have played the game through four times over the last 10 years. Combat is average at best but dialogue is amazing and characterisation is unequaled.

But on top of all that is the twists and turns. Your own character is slowly revelaed to be more and more complex over the course of 40 hours and it just draws you in.

Its not for everyone and its not the best game ever but if it was a novel it would be a classic it just had the misfortune to be a game instead and therefore hampered by its gameplay

 

[Pipotchi]

Post up your character details and I'll tell you if you need a helping hand or not.

Sure, why not.
Level 5, fighter.

STR: 15
INT: 17
WIS: 15
DEX: 10
CON: 10
CHA: 10

He talks well and he fights okay. Tends to miss a lot for some reason.

Okay your strengh and dex are a bit higher than needed, basically you need a lot more constituation as it makes you regenerate which in turn makes combat a lot easier

 

[Chromatic Aberration]

How can a game thats only good in one aspect but terrible in another be so loved by loads of people?

Well, its unique and is, even for current standards, amazing in its story department.

* As one of the only games I know of, it focuses on dialogue and not on actual gameplay - which you can see as either good or bad but is definitely something unique.

* Has a highly unique and fascinating setting. The same goes for the characters - highly unique and fascinating.

* Provides an amazing storyline with an amount of depth that is, for the most part, unparalleled in gaming history up until now.

 

[Continuity]

I'm not sure if that's a valid excuse. A smooth inventory system does not require cutting edge current-gen technology. If I was picking on the graphics or something then sure, I would see where you're coming from.

Games have developed in more ways than just technological, back in the 90's these sort of games were just taking off, many genre were just taking off. Its like criticising doom for not using mouse aiming... they just didn't know that that was better at the time, thus you have to forgive old games a certain amount of clunkyness.

I don't mean new for video games generally. Yeah, that would be silly. I mean new to this one game. Like some more abilities or something. Perhaps some more things like Morte's insult ability that makes enemy mages run up and try to punch him (which is incidentally hilarious). That would improve things.

Ok well yes, certainly there is a lot more to uncover in that respect, you can become a mage yourself for example an then you open up the whole world of spells that you can find, learn, and cast. PLus you get more companions who will have different classes and abilities.

Sure, why not.
Level 5, fighter.

STR: 15
INT: 17
WIS: 15
DEX: 10
CON: 10
CHA: 10

He talks well and he fights okay. Tends to miss a lot for some reason.

Well you're in trouble there a bit, you've got some wis and int which is fine but the strength doesn't really blend with the int. You want to aim your stats at a particular class when you start (yes I know they don't really give you any guidance on this), so either mage, fighter or thief. You can continue to play with what you've got (those stats are playable) but if you go mage as you should with that intelligence you're going to regret putting those points in strength.
I suggest you read a character creation guide or two then if you don't want to start over just use an editor to modify your stats.

 

[Tax_Document]

I see where your coming from...
You can't say a GAME<--- Is good if the GAMEPLAY is bad but the STORY is good.

If it's such a good STORY it should have been a BOOK.

OP, the game is rubbish, I'd drop it and run...

 

[Pipotchi]

I see where your coming from...
You can't say a GAME<--- Is good if the GAMEPLAY is bad but the STORY is good.

If it's such a good STORY it should have been a BOOK.

OP, the game is rubbish, I'd drop it and run...

Thats true only if the only aspect of the gameplay was combat. Combat is bad but the gameplay includes alot more than just fighting, dialogue, exploration, puzzle solving.

You can complete the game only killing two enemies if you so desire

 

[Macrobstar]

How can a game thats only good in one aspect but terrible in another be so loved by loads of people?

Well, its unique and is, even for current standards, amazing in its story department.

* As one of the only games I know of, it focuses on dialogue and not on actual gameplay - which you can see as either good or bad but is definitely something unique.

* Has a highly unique and fascinating setting. The same goes for the characters - highly unique and fascinating.

* Provides an amazing storyline with an amount of depth that is, for the most part, unparalleled in gaming history up until now.

But there are games with a great storyline and great gameplay, so why is planescape worshiped?

 

[AlternatePFG]

How can a game thats only good in one aspect but terrible in another be so loved by loads of people?

Well, its unique and is, even for current standards, amazing in its story department.

* As one of the only games I know of, it focuses on dialogue and not on actual gameplay - which you can see as either good or bad but is definitely something unique.

* Has a highly unique and fascinating setting. The same goes for the characters - highly unique and fascinating.

* Provides an amazing storyline with an amount of depth that is, for the most part, unparalleled in gaming history up until now.

But there are games with a great storyline and great gameplay, so why is planescape worshiped?

Because it's story is still miles better than any other game that's out there.

 

[Hiphophippo]

How can a game thats only good in one aspect but terrible in another be so loved by loads of people?

Well, its unique and is, even for current standards, amazing in its story department.

* As one of the only games I know of, it focuses on dialogue and not on actual gameplay - which you can see as either good or bad but is definitely something unique.

* Has a highly unique and fascinating setting. The same goes for the characters - highly unique and fascinating.

* Provides an amazing storyline with an amount of depth that is, for the most part, unparalleled in gaming history up until now.

But there are games with a great storyline and great gameplay, so why is planescape worshiped?

Because the story really IS that much better than most everything else on the market. You'd be hardpressed to find much that is fit to share the same genre with it in regards to story. That said, someone in this thread said earlier that Planescape would probably work better as a point and click adventure game...I hadn't thought of that myself but they're probably right.

 

[Chromatic Aberration]

How can a game thats only good in one aspect but terrible in another be so loved by loads of people?

Well, its unique and is, even for current standards, amazing in its story department.

* As one of the only games I know of, it focuses on dialogue and not on actual gameplay - which you can see as either good or bad but is definitely something unique.

* Has a highly unique and fascinating setting. The same goes for the characters - highly unique and fascinating.

* Provides an amazing storyline with an amount of depth that is, for the most part, unparalleled in gaming history up until now.

But there are games with a great storyline and great gameplay, so why is planescape worshiped?

First, I'am going to emphasize again: Its unique. There is nothing quite like it and there will probably never be. Thus, PS:T deserves to at least be remembered as an example of uniqueness. What brings people to actually worship it is its great story and characters, focus on dialogue and depth blended with the aforementioned uniqueness.

As for that gameplay part, I was a bit sloppy in my wording - "gameplay", like Pipotchi pointed out, is much more than the simple Combat mechanics. "Gameplay" in an RPG is as much dialogue and making decisions for your character as it is Inventory management and stat-tuning. And in terms of dialogue and its impact on the game, PS:T is as interesting as it can get. To give an example, you do not even need to fight the final boss in the game if you choose the right dialogue options - something I haven't seen in any other game.

 

[Katana314]

I'm hearing a lot of excuses for the game like "You're not giving it a fair chance", "You're expecting modern inventory management out of a very old game", "You don't understand the D&D system, so..."
I quite frankly don't accept these kind of excuses. Maybe the game was great for its time, but if people are genuinely having a very hard time putting up with the game, that simply means that like Deus Ex or Half-Life, it hasn't aged particularly well for every audience. Not many first-time gamers today would really like to try out Deus Ex's RPG system.

I think I, too, am going to be giving up this game. Maybe I'll watch an LP that goes through the big events, but I've had a lot of the same complaints about inventory management and incomprehensible combat.

 

[PurplePlatypus]

I think I, too, am going to be giving up this game. Maybe I'll watch an LP that goes through the big events, but I've had a lot of the same complaints about inventory management and incomprehensible combat.

I would say skip on the LP. It's a really long game and you're going to miss a lot if you're going to try and just pick out the main bits. It's a shame you didn't take to it but you know, it's best to just move on rather than lament about it.

 

[Continuity]

I think the main point for people to bear in mind about PS:T and the other blackisle games is that they are essentially computerised AD&D games, so you need to realise that when you sit down to play PS:T you are actually sitting down to play AD&D.

If AD&D Is alien to you then you're going to struggle and if you're expecting something other than AD&D you're probably going to be disappointed.