Pokemon Research Proves Squirtle To Be Best Starter

BehattedWanderer

Fell off the Alligator.
Jun 24, 2009
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All this talk about X and Y has me going back to finish my 151 run from over the summer, and I can conclude that Charmander is most definitely baller. How baller? So baller, that I had to trade on in alongside my squirtle run, and I didn't even want to do that. He just...took over.

But...Blastoise was the original badass, man. Dude had cannons that retracted into his shell. Might as well just field them both, though, because I'm a middle-roader.
 

chiggerwood

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May 10, 2009
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Whatislove said:
Score 1 for the Squirteam

Wow that sounds horrible.

Hey guys... guys... can we not call ourselves the Squirteam... how about Team Squirtle?

Yeah! Score 1 for Team Squirtle.

In all seriousness though, I love my blastoise.
That reminded me, when I was a kid I used squirtle as my starter (because he's the best) and nicknamed him Gusher. Oh how innocent I was. Besides that, HELL YEAH TEAM SQUIRTLE! go ahead come at me with your Charizard, let's see how he likes Surf.
 

Crazie_Guy

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Mar 8, 2009
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It usually doesn't take this long for someone with more than a casual knowledge of Pokemon to come along.

Speaking as a true battler, Venusaur has ultimately been the strongest of the originals. Starting from 4th gen, Charizard suffered from mediocre offensive stats with poor defenses and the worst typing the game could give a Pokemon in the new age of entry hazards. It was a Pokemon of very few tricks and therefore incredibly predictable. Is it going to belly drum? Or is it using Choice and therefore going to have to switch often and get ruined by stealth rocks? Either way, if a Charizard caused problems for an OU team, it was a poorly made team. Blastoise is barely worth mentioning - it didn't even get anything unique in 4th gen, it was the most generic of generic bulky water types, mediocre even in its own tier (which was a low tier) and entirely unusable in OU.

Venusaur on the other hand, with great defenses, a supporting movepool particular to grass types, and good resistances was an exceptionally useful bulky grass type with leech seed and sleep powder, and could easily find a well deserved place on any team in OU.

Enter 5th gen, the generation of weather - Charizard is as hopeless in the face of SR as always. Blastoise gets some niche defensive appeal for rain teams with rain dish, for people who just want to use blastoise and are willing to overlook several better choices for that role... And Venusaur gets chlorophyl and an upgraded Growth along with the introduction of a Non-Uber Drought Pokemon. Suddenly Sunny Day teams were a thing, and for every Sunny Day team, there was a Venusaur to do the sweeping, and it became one of the most fearsome threats in the game for which every team needed a counter unless they wanted to forfeit every single time their opponent led with a Ninetales.
 

Sansha

There's a principle in business
Nov 16, 2008
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I disagree. Bulbasaur is super-effective against the first two gyms, which is exceedingly valuable given the rarity of such Pokemon up to that point. It also has valuable crowd-control abilities, and by the time you get up to the gyms where Bulba/Ivy/Venusaur isn't as effective, you have scores of caught Pokemon to pick up the slack.

Squirtle is great in Pewter, but falls flat in Cerulean and hits a wall in Vermilion and Celadon, returning to power only on Cinnibar and Veridian, by which time one has scores of water types at their disposal. Bulbasaur, meanwhile, holds his own against the electric and grass types long enough for you to get some more water types in preparation for benching him on the fires of Cinnibar.

Charmander is for people who are fucking hardcore, and don't give a shit - Charizard is the tits, and which should be fully evolved in time to incinerate the grass types of Celadon.

My team ended up being Charizard, Marowak, Gengar, Lapras, Jolteon and Mew.
 

Wesley Brannock

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Sep 7, 2010
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Back in the day when I used to play pokemon I ALWAYS chose the fire types ( which are very rare early on ). Why simple I could get plant types ( which are VERY common ) with fire types thus allowing me to catch water, then rock , then electric it's not just about any one pokemon itself but what it allows you to get. By the middle of the game I had a well rounded crew just because I could go after almost ANYTHING. I'm guessing the " stats " didn't take this into account.

 

Atmos Duality

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Mar 3, 2010
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Yeah, I can believe that...I remember my first time playing Pokemon ever and I started Squirtle. My run was comparatively trivial with that of my sister and friend just because Squirtle could learn Bubblebeam (don't laugh too much, it's great for those long haul "dungeons") and the then OP-as-HELL Ice Beam.

But outside of Gen 1, Squirtle (or Blastoise) is COMPLETELY USELESS. Strong water types become way too common after Gen 1.
Besides, it's not a cool "Wannabe Dragon" baller like Charizard (who only continued to get BETTER as time went on thanks to new moves), and it doesn't have the amazing move-pool of Venusaur.

The fuck am I going use a Blastoise for when I could have a Suicune?
Novelty?
 

Auron225

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Oct 26, 2009
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BrotherRool said:
I think the research probably failed to take into account that Charmander is objectively the best starter
Very true - hopefully they'll release a revised version soon which takes into account the existence of Charmander, his evolution line, and the ridiculous badassery of them all.
 

The Apple BOOM

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Nov 16, 2012
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If you're choosing from all 18 starters, the best one hands down is Torchic. Blaziken is banned in competitive play, as it's only real counter as of Gen 5 is Giratina. Then they went ahead and gave it an even more broken mega.

Outside of megas, Froakie is actually looking like the second best starter right now, although we'll have to wait a bit for the Gen 6 metagame to get going to say anything concrete. Starters have usually been pretty bad, actually, when it comes to competition. The Gen 1 megas do make Venusaur and Charizard somewhat usable, though, but they left Blastoise high and dry.
 

LetalisK

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May 5, 2010
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I agree, I favor Squirtle. Charmander was a good choice too because of the rarity of fire pokemon. I hated bulbasaur, but mainly because I hate grass pokemon in general, especially in the first few generations.

That said, nowadays there are so many water types I'd rather have then Squirtle that I'd probably go with Charmander.
 

Riot3000

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Oct 7, 2013
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Of course team squirtle for the win I mean he evolves into blastoise what other pokemon is packing ballistics. Shoot Blastoise don't care about your flying lizards and obese chia pets.


[Overly Attached Chikorita
Tanis said:
Chikorita don't take no shit.


Even if she's a little...clingy.
Overly attached chikorita wins forever.
 

matsy

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Nov 19, 2009
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SuperSuperSuperGuy said:
Disagree. Bulbasaur is the best one. Charmander gives the player an awful start, while Squirtle is consistently average, and Bulbasaur makes the beginning of the game really easy, and once its usefulness wears out, you have more options to work with. Bulbasaur has access to the ridiculously overpowered Toxic/Leech Seed combination, as well.

Does this study take into account alternatives to the starters? I ask because there are many, frankly better, alternatives to Squirtle, and fewer for Bulbasaur and Charmander. Even then, Fire-type Pokémon weren't very good in generation 1, anyway, so Charmander's sadly pretty irrelevant. Squirtle's alternatives as a Water-type include Slowbro, who gets Amnesia, Starmie, who is just awesome in general, Lapras, who is also awesome, Poliwrath, who's pretty good all around, Tentacruel, who's actually really underrated, Vaporeon, who has massive amounts of HP, and Gyarados, who has extremely high attacking stats. Starmie and Slowbro in particular stand out because they are so significantly better moveset-wise than Squirtle; the former learns Psychic and Thunderbolt, in addition to the Ice and Water moves that Squirtle gets, and while Slowbro lacks Thunderbolt, it gets the hilariously overpowered Amnesia, which basically lets it do anything, ever. Bulbasaur's alternatives extend to Victreebel, Vileplume, Tangela, Parasect and Exeggutor. While you can make a case for Victreebel and Exeggutor, the other three are basically worse in every way; Parasect has no good STAB, though Spore is awesome, and its stats are bad, Tangela is just bad, and anything Vileplume can do, Venusaur can do better. You could make a case about Victreebel being a good alternative, but it lacks Leech Seed and is slower and more frail. The only awesome alternative to Venusaur is Exeggutor, and even then, the only thing, besides better stats, more than Venusaur that Exeggutor brings to the table is Psychic, which is admittedly quite helpful, but does not make as significant of a difference as Starmie getting Thunderbolt, in addition to Psychic, makes when compared to Blastoise.

TL;DR: Bulbasaur offers a good start, allowing the player to hit the ground running early-on, and gets a powerful combination of moves. It also has fewer good alternatives than Squirtle, and the better alternatives to Venusaur are less significantly better than the good alternatives to Blastoise. Even if this doesn't automatically tip the scale in Bulbasaur's favour, it's something important to think about. Charmander, on the other hand, isn't very good in generation 1, so it isn't relevant to the discussion.
The other thing it doesn't take into account is RELEVANT stats. Sure Blastoise has exceptional DEF and SPDEF, but vs. the AI you should always be using an attack that's supereffective and one-shotting the enemy. This makes attacking stats and speed far more important than defensive stats - literally the best defence is a good offence. So in terms of relevant stats this makes Charmander the best starter as Charizard has the highest speed and its SPATK is the highest attacking stat out of any of the starters.

Of course there are other factors like movesets and alternatives, covered above. In terms of movesets and alterntatives the above is 100% right: there is no alternative to Venusar, whereas Blastoise is easily replaced (and outclassed) by either Starmie or Lapras.
 

krazykidd

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Mar 22, 2008
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Actually . Squitle is the best . Why? Because in the original red/blue. You could beat the game using Only squirtle ( and oddish for cut). Which other starter allows you to beat the game with a grand total of 2 pokemon?