Pokemon Sun and Moon

[Saelune]

On that note, a common complaint with reviewers is that the game is more handholding than the original. So I guess I'll see on Tuesday.. Considering the game isn't out yet in the EU.

You gave your own rebuttal.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Yes, you played Pokemon as a child. Yes, you're an adult now. But there's a reason the formula hasn't changed in 20 years. I'm hoping to god I don't have to sit here and explain it. -.-

If the target demographic has never changed, and the formula hasn't either, why does every iteration in the franchise become "more handhold-y", as is the case in point? Why have we gone from 5 minute tutorials to 2 hour tutorials?

 

[Pseudonym]

I remember having this exact reaction to the first couple of hours of pokemon Y. That got better after a while once the tutorials are over.

Each game is more and more tutorialized.

Honestly, I dont truly enjoy the game until I either I get fly, or the plot is over. I wish Pokemon games would have less plot, not more, and be less linear.

I think pokemon gold did it really well by having a pretty large 'postgame' in the form of Kanto and a kind of second final boss. This adds some optional but good meat at the end which isn't bogged down too much by tutorials and such. It also means there is a final boss which makes having pokemon above level 70 useful. I don't think they ever repeated that.

I feel that people who think like this always forget one crucial fact about Pokemon..

Children are the primary demographic.

Not teens, not adults. Just children aging from around 5-13. When I remind myself of that fact, I'm fine with the trivial things that are a minor nuisance to me, because they're a huge help to children.

I googled some stats. I found nothing entirely reliable but japanese research that I can't read myself seems to indicate that pokemon X/Y was most popular amongst 19-24 year olds. link. [http://playeressence.com/japanese-study-shows-majority-pokemon-x-y-players-college-kids/] One way or the other, being aimed at children might help explain the choice for a lot of tutorial and make it 'the right choice' but it doesn't help me or Saelune enjoy the game.

 

[kilenem]

God thank you i'm not the only one. I don't want to sound like the old man who hates everything but holly shit is this game is linear. Pokemon usually hides the game being linear by requiring pokemon to learn HM's but even then when you learn the HM you get the bonus of going back to previous spots that weren't excess able. Their is carrot and stick approach to your progress being impeded. Hell I was talking to my cousin a month before the game came out because he was happy that they're weren't HM's. I told him I like the HM system verses people stopping your progress because in Pokemon gold and Silver Kurt the ball maker pushes a team rocket member out of the way to go in to slow poke well. When a person stops you its because you are a 10 year old who doesn't have the power to move some one out of the game. As a kid I played this game for escapism.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

If the target demographic has never changed, and the formula hasn't either, why does every iteration in the franchise become "more handhold-y",

They don't. It's only a complaint in the 7th gen. Which incidentally has been the highest rated gen, by the same reviewers.

as is the case in point? Why have we gone from 5 minute tutorials to 2 hour tutorials?

Evident you've never played a Pokemon game.

Blue and Gold. Now direct me to the booth where my Opinion Gets Validated. No, wait. Let me guess. Those don't count. You didn't like them. Or two games isn't enough. Three minimum.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Also a bunch of little changes Im not sure how I feel about. Trivial enough to get over, but still. The game now tells you if moves are super-effective or not. If I was new, Id probably love it, but I guess cause I worked hard to know all the types, it makes my knowledge feel trivialized.

I feel that people who think like this always forget one crucial fact about Pokemon..

Children are the primary demographic.

Not teens, not adults. Just children aging from around 5-13. When I remind myself of that fact, I'm fine with the trivial things that are a minor nuisance to me, because they're a huge help to children.

I don't understand people who think like this.

'It was once for kids so it must always be for kids'.

No, Game Freak is surely aware that many (if not most, have there been any studies done?) of Pokemon players are NOT kids.

 

[WeepingAngels]

The amounts of adults I saw standing in the cold to get Sun and Moon two nights ago begs to differ.

No... No it doesn't. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, and assume you thought AFTER making the post. But it doesn't take a genius to piece together that...

A). A child aged 5-13 isn't going to be out at MIDNIGHT for a game.
B). A good few of those adults could have younger relatives
C). A parent is less inclined to wait at a midnight release for a game for their child.

Honestly... I find it baffling how people get so absorbed in their own little bubbles that they honestly believe everything is catered to them.

Yes, you played Pokemon as a child. Yes, you're an adult now. But there's a reason the formula hasn't changed in 20 years. I'm hoping to god I don't have to sit here and explain it. -.-

Do you have statistics on the age of Pokemon players?

 

[WeepingAngels]

I don't understand people who think like this.

'It was once for kids so it must always be for kids'.

No, Game Freak is surely aware that many (if not most, have there been any studies done?) of Pokemon players are NOT kids.

Again. Those who sincerely believe that Pokemon is aimed at adults need to think of the logistics of it. I've made my points. I'm not repeating them.

Nintendo are aware that adults play the game. Adults frequent the tournaments, and they've frequently added new features to cater to the adult crowd.

If half of you used the power of 'reading'. You'll see that I never stated that adults don't play the games. i stated that 'children come first'. And the entitlement of a few whiny teens and young adults doesn't change that.

Because again. Nintendo won't (and don't need to) alienate one entire demographic for the sake of a couple of features which their older playerbase can easily tolerate.

I usually don't use critic opinions at all. But here, they illustrate my point well. Considering that metacritic scores have been pretty consistent to the rest of the Pokemon games, for all of the whining that Saelune is doing about how shit this generation is. The reception seems to be that they're about the same.

Blue and Gold. Now direct me to the booth where my Opinion Gets Validated. No, wait. Let me guess. Those don't count. You didn't like them. Or two games isn't enough. Three minimum.

I like how you're aware your knowledge of the franchise is 20 years outdated. So you're trying to prep for that being called out.

"I don't like Ben and Jerries icecream"
"Have you ever tried it?"
"I drank some milk 20 years ago and didn't like that

So I take it that you do not know the stats about the age of players.

 

[Weaver]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

 

[Saelune]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

Yes, I just recently got to this point...Why cant I use more than one Pokemon? I get it for trainers, but wild pokemon are wild...

Its not even that its hard, its just tedious. Especially when trying to actually catch the pokemon.

 

[Weaver]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

Yes, I just recently got to this point...Why cant I use more than one Pokemon? I get it for trainers, but wild pokemon are wild...

Its not even that its hard, its just tedious. Especially when trying to actually catch the pokemon.

Yeah! Preventing me from catching one is what really infurates me. If they'd just let me pick a ball target when there's 2 of them it would be way less annoying.

 

[Saelune]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

Yes, I just recently got to this point...Why cant I use more than one Pokemon? I get it for trainers, but wild pokemon are wild...

Its not even that its hard, its just tedious. Especially when trying to actually catch the pokemon.

Yeah! Preventing me from catching one is what really infurates me. If they'd just let me pick a ball target when there's 2 of them it would be way less annoying.

"You cant aim when theres more than one"...Theres just two...3 feet apart. Aim for the one thats all beat up! D:<

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Because again. Nintendo won't (and don't need to) alienate one entire demographic for the sake of a couple of features which their older playerbase can easily tolerate.

Even if Pokemon is aimed at children, excessive hand holding is an insult to their intelligence. Children don't need it and adults don't like it, so what's the point?

 

[Kaimax]

Its not even that its hard, its just tedious. Especially when trying to actually catch the pokemon.

This "SOS" mechanic has it's positive though as some Pokemon that you won't encounter normally will come to the help.
Like one time, I was at the Volcano park.
Encountered Magby, got it's health to red. But damn thing kept calling for Help, after the 4th one, Magmar appeared. so, fuck you magby, I'll take Magmar instead.

Normally in that Area the mons that will appear in Sun version (I play Sun), is Fletchling, Cubone, Salandit, Magby and Kanghaskan (1% rate lol). 2nd slot for Helpers actually has Magmar on the list.

 

[Weaver]

Its not even that its hard, its just tedious. Especially when trying to actually catch the pokemon.

This "SOS" mechanic has it's positive though as some Pokemon that you won't encounter normally will come to the help.
Like one time, I was at the Volcano park.
Encountered Magby, got it's health to red. But damn thing kept calling for Help, after the 4th one, Magmar appeared. so, fuck you magby, I'll take Magmar instead.

Normally in that Area the mons that will appear in Sun version (I play Sun), is Fletchling, Cubone, Salandit, Magby and Kanghaskan (1% rate lol). 2nd slot for Helpers actually has Magmar on the list.

The downside to it is there are a select few pokemon who only ever appear when they're called in for help, which is really tedious lol.

 

[CritialGaming]

So, I got it last night at the midnight release cause...my friends showed up to go to it.

So Ive been playing it. Now, I know I was going in with a cynical attitude due to all the awful pokemon and dumb ideas...

and its not changing anytime soon. MY GOD JUST LET ME PLAY! 20 minutes before I even got my starter, and I used to think Red and Blue took too long to get started. And Im over 2 hours in and still being rail-roaded to all hell. Now I am being BULL-ied into going to the trainer school, something usually quite optional. Can I please have a "Im not a 2 year old, I know how Pokemon works" option?

I also dont really feel like Im playing a new generation of Pokemon. I dont know if its cause the game is pissing me off, or if its cause I played too much Pokemon in my life, or if its cause I feel like Im just playing a combination of last gen. Feels more like X and Y, but in a tropical ORAS setting...meh.

Also a bunch of little changes Im not sure how I feel about. Trivial enough to get over, but still. The game now tells you if moves are super-effective or not. If I was new, Id probably love it, but I guess cause I worked hard to know all the types, it makes my knowledge feel trivialized.

And now you can Pokemon-Amie after battle. I guess as a means to get people to use it, though Amie really is just there to make a rather easy game even easier.

I want my opinion on this game to improve...but its not...

Oh yeah, and you have a Rotom, but dont. Your Pokedex has a Rotom in it...but you dont "own" it nor is it in your Pokedex list. I wish Pokemon you just meet would get added. Even Ash dragged out his Dex every two seconds in the original cartoon.

Anyways, I mean, its a new Pokemon game. I guess people are either playing it, or waiting to get it, but Id have thought there'd be a little more discussion on it than there is.

I feel you man. When the Sun/Moon hype train started rolling in I was rather unimpressed. I thought and still think the "Aloha" forms of the original Pokemon is a stupid idea that didn't interest me in the least. I was already disappointed with X/Y because the "new" generation only had 61 pokemon in it. And Generation 7 was looking to be very much the same kind of thing.

Yet the Pokedex leaked and I thought that a lot of the new pokemon looked badass. Plus after reading a couple of reviews, I became curious to see how they changed the formula of the games.

Sadly I bought into the game and I'm completely underwhelmed. It's just another Pokemon game, only with an overly long and rather stupid tutorial. The map is literally spelled out for you and there are even icons on the map that tell you exactly where to go and when. I hate it. I hate it all.

At this point, there are only a couple of good things in the game. 1. The game seems a lot harder than previous pokemon games. I dunno if it has to do with early pokemon typing or what, but it does seem harder. 2. Team Skull is the best team that has ever existed in a pokemon game ever in the existance of ever. Yes, even better than the OG Rocket.

I dunno, maybe after 20 years of playing the same shit over and over with the added bonus of having a exponentially difficult completion requirement, I'm just bored of the formula. Even the island style gym things here aren't exciting enough to make me care. Chances are, I'll beat the elite four with whatever team I happen to pick up along the way, and never touch this game again. No more 250hour catch 'em all investments for me.

 

[CritialGaming]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

Fuck everything about this mechanic. I'd be okay if it was once in a while, but it is literally every fucking wild fight. The only solution is O-Koing.

 

[Weaver]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

Fuck everything about this mechanic. I'd be okay if it was once in a while, but it is literally every fucking wild fight. The only solution is O-Koing.

It's highly annoying when just trying to catch something. There's any number of things they could do to improve it:
1) Let you have two pokemon
2) Let you throw a ball at one of the two pokemon
3) Limit the number of call-ins per battle
4) Have the call action actually take a move instead of happening between rounds
5) everything above

But the way it is now is just not fun

 

[CritialGaming]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

Fuck everything about this mechanic. I'd be okay if it was once in a while, but it is literally every fucking wild fight. The only solution is O-Koing.

It's highly annoying when just trying to catch something. There's any number of things they could do to improve it:
1) Let you have two pokemon
2) Let you throw a ball at one of the two pokemon
3) Limit the number of call-ins per battle
4) Have the call action actually take a move instead of happening between rounds
5) everything above

But the way it is now is just not fun

Supposedly, if you let the chain of summons go on long enough there is a higher chance you'll get a pokemon with a hidden ability or a shiny. But for people like me who don't give a fuck about those things, it sucks dicks.

 

[Weaver]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

Fuck everything about this mechanic. I'd be okay if it was once in a while, but it is literally every fucking wild fight. The only solution is O-Koing.

It's highly annoying when just trying to catch something. There's any number of things they could do to improve it:
1) Let you have two pokemon
2) Let you throw a ball at one of the two pokemon
3) Limit the number of call-ins per battle
4) Have the call action actually take a move instead of happening between rounds
5) everything above

But the way it is now is just not fun

Supposedly, if you let the chain of summons go on long enough there is a higher chance you'll get a pokemon with a hidden ability or a shiny. But for people like me who don't give a fuck about those things, it sucks dicks.

I also don't care about those things lol. I've never dove deep enough to care about EV or IV points either, and really don't want to. And while I know they have a very dedicated and passionate fanbase that does care about these things - I can't help but feel the casual Pokemon players such as ourselves must outnumber them by a high margin.

If that is the justification for this feature, they should have it be a late game / end game feature. "Oh you got all the stamps, pokemon know how strong a trainer you are and will now call in their friends for help!" there's a story justification.