(Politic) Alabama passes bill to ban abortion completely
- Thread starter Neurotic Void Melody
- Start date
Did not know that information before, it makes their actions all the more insidious an indefensible here.Lil devils x said:
Oki doki, living under some kind of rock since at least the formative years is one thing, but when people regularly try to lift the rock to let a bit of sunlight in only for it to get pulled straight back down again to continue baseless rambling about the evil "sjws," "communism/socialism," "feminazis" and the "abnormal gay married folk" at every opportunity kinda makes the whole attempt at claiming everyone else needs to be "understanding of the other side for dialogue to begin" come off as astoundingly blind hypocrisy at very best when clearly you haven't taken in a single thing others have tried to patiently explain over bugger-knows how long now.Dreiko said:
Case in point: everyone with half a functioning mind already knows full well what anti-gay marriage and anti-abortion people believe and think, it's not a new phenomenon...they've been shouting and enforcing it upon everyone for last few bloody centuries! Where have you been??? There aren't any mysteries there, dude. Any significant resistance against it has really been a relatively recent human development in history. If anyone needs to engage in "understanding the other side" it's the people with their evangelical stubborn dumb heads in the sand refusing to empathise with people even slightly different to them while voting to take away their rights and ignoring vast swathes of scientific data. And just cause some women have been conditioned to believe in ideas that harm them (the same as men have often been, through different avenues), it is no fucking justification to place their ignorant stupidity on all women everywhere. The real phenomenon here is how anyone can talk with such confidence about matters they have no experience in while refusing to even listen to others who clearly do have experience over and over and over again. Is it from an upbringing that failed to teach the simple lesson one could ever be wrong?
fucking hell. Just launch the nukes already. We?ve failed as a species. Our worlds fucked up when we give rapists and inbreeders(which I guarantee there is a huge supply of in Alabama) more protection than their victims.
Taking bets now that everyone who said yes to this bill is guilty of rape and/or incest.
Taking bets now that everyone who said yes to this bill is guilty of rape and/or incest.
Institutions have no rights. They are there to serve us. They are made to represent what the majority think is a good law/ way to live/ moral structure etc. We change these all the time, depending on what society demands. King George III didn't want America to break away from England. The tradition was America was a colony of England. How you think means that America shouldn't never even tried to break away. And the only reason is... tradition. The America society decided that it was more beneficial to not remain part of the realm. Because the society decided that this tradition was no longer necessary.Dreiko said:
It is quite possible that your a Conservative, you care about traditions. It automatically scores a point in keeping that tradition. That is not a selling point to either Liberal or Libertarians. That's not what either of these two value (usually some form of Freedom). Tradition doesn't have the same effect.
Also, the tradition before (hetero only marriage) forced a bunch of people to live with that reality. In other words, they completely understand how you feel. Tell me why the old reality was better than the new? Because if its got something to do with tradition, I'm going to point to the previous paragraph. The old tradition also forced people to never marry the person they loved. So not only did it force an ideology and it forced a physical restraint onto people. When a Liberal or Libertarian talk about Same Sex Marriage, this later bit is the most important. It not about forcing ideology. It's about getting rid of the physical means of force. If a tradition break a freedom of a person, it's going to be a target
Firstly, I'm highly aware that people find 'the gays' morally repugnant. Mostly, it comes from some passage in the Bible/Torah/Qur'an. I understand that it comes from some divine being that people think is important. Problem is, when people say 'understand their viewpoint', they actually mean believe it or submit to it. Understanding doesn't mean agreement.
Just because these text are important to people, doesn't mean they are important to a majority. Jefferson's Wall is a tradition specifically to deal with this. You can use your religious background as argument. But don't expect Bible passages to hold any weight. Because for the majority of people, they don't. Your understanding of marriage comes from your religious background. You don't get to impose that on anyone else, UNLESS we accept it. We used to accept hetero-only marriage. Now we don't, based on ideologies that have nothing to do with religion.
So you might ask... well, Jefferson's Wall is a tradition. Why arent the Liberals or Libertarians against it. Becuase it gives the same right to everyone. No one can take your religion away from you. But you cant take religion off anyone else either. Laws will never be based on Sharia law or the Ten Commandments becuase it religious (unless there is a good reason too. Eg. I happen to like the commandments against killing, stealing but not so hot on not taking the Lords name in vain.)
The same thing happens in the abortion debate. I dont care about the current positon. It doesnt score points for existing. I dont care about Bible passage. I do care about the freedoms of both individuals and which one might take precedence. Becuase, either way, someone's rights are going to be impinged.
I'm afraid it might go dangerously far. And/or they won't recognise the significance of what they are doing. Lot of pissed off deplorables with guns who won't fight for the future of the US, but will murder innocent people and pretend that's what they are doing.Silentpony said:
This is what rape culture is. It is a rapist who was put into the Presidency over a woman, so he could nominate a rapist into the supreme court, and so we could have rapists receive less punishment than the women they rape. (By the way, rape victims should not be receiving ANY punishment)
Why would you assume that I, or anyone else for that matter, does not understand how these religious fanatics think? As I have stated on here before, as a child I was taken by these religious fanatics and tied to a chair and made to read the bible aloud while they turned the pages. I have read the Bible more times than most Christians and have even translated it from Hebrew. In that same school that the US government required us to attend on the reservation, a man raped hundreds of children "to get the devil out of them". In that same school hundreds of kids were beaten and abused and told that it was the beliefs of our ancestors that were evil and that we needed to be saved. Although the late Senator John McCain helped put a stop to the man raping the children, the school's other abuses continued and is still open to this day. The only way for my family to escape that abuse was to leave the reservation, the homeland of my ancestors, as this is actually part of the US governments forced assimilation of our people. The US government is part of the reason why this sort of fanaticism is so rampant in the US, as the US government has not only condoned such behavior, but encouraged and facilitated it to continue for generations.Dreiko said:
When we moved away from the reservation, we still lived in the "Bible Belt" where I still reside now. When a local church school closed down, they took over the local public school district where I was attending school here. They started putting "Jesus died for us" pamphlets in my locker at school and people would walk through the halls quoting bible verses loudly nonstop. They added Bible study before and after school and in some classes started saying prayer before starting class when the teachers from the church school started replacing the teachers in public school. They fired a teacher for having alcohol in a locked cabinet in her home after one of the students babysat for her and saw it and started a petition to remove her over it. They petitioned to have sex ED removed from the curriculum nd started passing out chastity rings. The biology teacher quit and was replaced with a pastor as a substitute because they would not agree to not teach evolution and instead promote creationism.
I understand EXACTLY how these people think and where this leads. I am surrounded by them. They believe they have the "divine right" to enforce what they believe to be "God's will" upon others by any means necessary. They promote fear as a means to control the masses to force them to conform to their will. This is about conformity, they are afraid their children will not conform to their will if exposed to "gays" and will commit sin if allowed to have abortions. They are extremely xenophobic because anything that is perceived as different is seen as a threat to undermine their authority. They are afraid if they are surrounded by "openly gay people" that their own child might find it acceptable to be gay and that is one of their worst fears, so they try to limit exposure at all costs and want to control the narrative that being gay is the worst thing a person can do to attempt to prevent that from happening. Their "values" are about controlling others, and forcing their will upon them, not just their own values. That is why they indoctrinate and force their will upon their children while they are impressionable and never allow them to make the decision for themselves. That is how these people think, and it is disgusting and should not only not be tolerated, it should be confronted and stopped so that this mindset cannot be fostered as it has been proven to be malignant and harmful to society. I do understand how they think, I still have to deal with them every day, at home and work.
There being women who have been convinced to vote against their interests is not a new thing here, hell there were even women against the right for women to vote and work, that does not somehow validate that to not be against women, they do not somehow become a poster child to show that this is somehow not targeting to be harmful to women, because it is. In addition, those who voted for these men did not necessarily vote for them due to this issue. It is telling however, that the only people who voted for this bill were white men, not women. There are women in the legislature but they did not vote for it. This decision to remove a woman's right to her own body was decided entirely by men.
As I have said before on these forums, I don't think abortion should be used as a form of birth control or taken lightly, however, I think it is a decision that should be made by a patient and her physician, not by legislatures. It should not be illegal and it should not be promoted as a form of birth control. It should instead be treated a serious medical issue that no one other than the patient and their doctor should have a say in.trunkage said:
Even less discussed but far more common is the lifelong impact of childbirth to women's health. While some women can have a complication free pregnancy, childbirth is one of the leading causes of life long disability in women. Even when we manage to reduce maternal mortality rates, we still struggle with addressing the severe and permanent damage to a woman's health that can leave her permanently disabled from childbirth. All of the body changes and what one's body has to endure during pregnancy can permanently damage organs and/or cause organ failure, cause chronic inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, chronic pain, and can damage the spinal cord and increase the likelihood of breaking bones. Many do no realize the severe impact this can actually have a woman's body, and they may never be able to return to work afterwards. This is a decision that will affect the rest of a woman's life. Even worse, many women think these things will be short term and due to not being able to return to work, they often lose their ability to apply for disability benefits due to loss of credits and then are left disabled, not able to work and not able to receive benefits. In states like Alabama this is made even worse due to their severe lack of assistance for women, often leaving them with no options. This is one of the "traps" women find themselves in where they are forced to be dependant on a spouse in order to survive at all, and is common in abusive relationships as a reason why the woman cannot leave their abuser. This bill targeting rape and incest victims makes it that much worse for the victims to never be able to escape their abuser.Neurotic Void Melody said:
The people pushing this also want to strip the right to vote from people who have committed a felony.Silentpony said:
Abortion will be a felony
Miscarriage will be treated as abortion - a felony.
They want birth control to be treated as an abortion - a felony.
Oh look if they get what they want, it becomes awfully easy for a woman having sex to have committed a felony and to have lost her right to vote.
Gee, I wonder why they'd want that to happen?
That's not generally considered a safe way of performing abortions. But 100% effective, I guess.CaitSeith said:
EDIT: Seriously though, lots of talk of companies boycotting the state. On one hand, yeah, see why you'd do that. On the other, if you need an abortion, being unemployed as well isn't to help.
If people want to help, they should listen to what abortion rights organizations in Alabama want, not write off the state as irredeemable.Thaluikhain said:
Aside from DC police being the wrong law enforcement body (that falls to the Sergeant at Arms of the United States House of Representatives for cases of contempt of Congress), you're dead on. That and that if held in contempt of congress they have to hold them in the House's jail, which might possibly cause logistical issues depending on how many ignored subpoenas there end up being.Silentpony said:
I do understand the other side. And that other side refuses to understand my side, and refuses to dialogue with us. So fine, no more dialogue. If they wanted to talk, we gave them 8 years to talk, and everytime we tried to talk they actively spit in our face and slapped our hands.Dreiko said:
Now they march with tiki torches making Nazi chants. Appeasement doesnt work.