[POLITICS] If Trump is Innocent, he should prove it

[Saelune]

It all depends on the context and situation and what evidence CAN be found.

So, let's just say that evidence points fairly heavily towards a person having committed a crime. Context looks pretty bad. What then? What would happen in your 'moderate position'?

People who dictate the law should be provenly innocent of destroying the law.

Proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Proven to be an absolute? Does this tie into your 'moderate position'?

Is this supposed to be a 'gotcha'? If someone is found guilty of wrongdoing, you punish them fairly.

 

[Leg End]

Is this supposed to be a 'gotcha'? If someone is found guilty of wrongdoing, you punish them fairly.

I'm not talking about someone having already been found guilty, I'm talking about someone who has been accused of a crime. What you've been arguing is that we should not assume someone's innocence until they are found guilty, just because they may "go free". Are you prepared to punish the innocent in your quest to attempt to ensure no guilty man or woman walks free?

 

[Saelune]

Is this supposed to be a 'gotcha'? If someone is found guilty of wrongdoing, you punish them fairly.

I'm not talking about someone having already been found guilty, I'm talking about someone who has been accused of a crime. What you've been arguing is that we should not assume someone's innocence until they are found guilty, just because they may "go free". Are you prepared to punish the innocent in your quest to attempt to ensure no guilty man or woman walks free?

Innocent people are punished already with 'Innocent until proven guilty'. They are punished when the guilty go free and many times get to continue to victimize the actual innocent.

Every case that Kavanaugh gets his and thus Republican's way on is punishing millions if not more innocent people.

Innocent until proven guilty presumes ONE SIDE is right already.

 

[Leg End]

Innocent people are punished already with 'Innocent until proven guilty'. They are punished when the guilty go free and many times get to continue to victimize the actual innocent.

So with that in your mind, what exactly is your 'moderate position' solution? You didn't answer the first time, maybe you'll answer the second time.

 

[Saelune]

Innocent people are punished already with 'Innocent until proven guilty'. They are punished when the guilty go free and many times get to continue to victimize the actual innocent.

So with that in your mind, what exactly is your 'moderate position' solution? You didn't answer the first time, maybe you'll answer the second time.

I already answered it. That you even use the term I used in the answer suggests you saw it.

https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1056851-POLITICS-If-Trump-is-Innocent-he-should-prove-it?page=11#24303885

https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1056851-POLITICS-If-Trump-is-Innocent-he-should-prove-it?page=11#24304077

 

[Leg End]

I already answered it. That you even use the term I used in the answer suggests you saw it.

https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1056851-POLITICS-If-Trump-is-Innocent-he-should-prove-it?page=11#24303885

https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1056851-POLITICS-If-Trump-is-Innocent-he-should-prove-it?page=11#24304077

First post is vague wishful thinking with no actual answer. Second, do you understand what Presumption of Innocence actually is? Do you not understand how investigations are carried out? Are you actually familiar with how our legal system and due process actually works? Because to be blunt, it sounds like you don't like the system because the people you don't like have rights within said system, as does anyone.

I've slowly realized that Schad basically covered everything and I already have my answer to the above. Have a good day, Saelune.

 

[Saelune]

I already answered it. That you even use the term I used in the answer suggests you saw it.

https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1056851-POLITICS-If-Trump-is-Innocent-he-should-prove-it?page=11#24303885

https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1056851-POLITICS-If-Trump-is-Innocent-he-should-prove-it?page=11#24304077

First post is vague wishful thinking with no actual answer. Second, do you understand what Presumption of Innocence actually is? Do you not understand how investigations are carried out? Are you actually familiar with how our legal system and due process actually works? Because to be blunt, it sounds like you don't like the system because the people you don't like have rights within said system, as does anyone.

I've slowly realized that Schad basically covered everything and I already have my answer to the above. Have a good day, Saelune.

The system does not work. I am not wrong for wanting a better one. Whats your answer then? Since apparently because I cant come up with the perfect solution, that invalidates my entire point, tell me how to fix it, and if you cant, then your point is invalid too by your standard.

Also you and Trump do not give the benefit of the doubt to others anyways. I think you only believe in 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty' for your own side. I atleast acknowledge it is a flawed concept.

 

[Saelune]

Right-Wingers have objectively proven to not believe in 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty', so Right-Wingers have no right to tell others to abide by it. That is hypocritical.

 

[Abomination]

Right-Wingers have objectively proven to not believe in 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty', so Right-Wingers have no right to tell others to abide by it. That is hypocritical.

If Saelune does not like your political leaning, you are guilty of any crime you are accused of - because of your political leaning.

 

[Saelune]

Right-Wingers have objectively proven to not believe in 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty', so Right-Wingers have no right to tell others to abide by it. That is hypocritical.

If Saelune does not like your political leaning, you are guilty of any crime you are accused of - because of your political leaning.

'How dare Saelune accuse the KKK of hating black people'

 

[Schadrach]

...SNIP...

Yeah, you just have to realize Saelune's point of view - that not punishing someone who might actually be innocent is punishing their victim - therefore if you want to avoid punishing the innocent you have to punish people who are maybe only very slightly more likely guilty than not, because throwing a significant number of innocent people in prison is better than any chance someone guilty might go free (which is the same as punishing their victim).

'How dare Saelune accuse the KKK of hating black people'

To be fair you claimed above that being male or Republican should be considered "contextual" evidence you are guilty of sexual assault.

 

[Abomination]

...SNIP...

Yeah, you just have to realize Saelune's point of view - that not punishing someone who might actually be innocent is punishing their victim - therefore if you want to avoid punishing the innocent you have to punish people who are maybe only very slightly more likely guilty than not, because throwing a significant number of innocent people in prison is better than any chance someone guilty might go free (which is the same as punishing their victim).

It's okay, we can now accuse people of being rapists (communists) to the (secret) police if we don't like them and they will be taken away to the nearest prison (camp).

Remember, Nazis are bad.

 

[Saelune]

I love when my cheer section get together to jerk each other off.

...SNIP...

Yeah, you just have to realize Saelune's point of view - that not punishing someone who might actually be innocent is punishing their victim - therefore if you want to avoid punishing the innocent you have to punish people who are maybe only very slightly more likely guilty than not, because throwing a significant number of innocent people in prison is better than any chance someone guilty might go free (which is the same as punishing their victim).

'How dare Saelune accuse the KKK of hating black people'

To be fair you claimed above that being male or Republican should be considered "contextual" evidence you are guilty of sexual assault.

To be fair, you are what you vote for.

...SNIP...

Yeah, you just have to realize Saelune's point of view - that not punishing someone who might actually be innocent is punishing their victim - therefore if you want to avoid punishing the innocent you have to punish people who are maybe only very slightly more likely guilty than not, because throwing a significant number of innocent people in prison is better than any chance someone guilty might go free (which is the same as punishing their victim).

It's okay, we can now accuse people of being rapists (communists) to the (secret) police if we don't like them and they will be taken away to the nearest prison (camp).

Remember, Nazis are bad.

As opposed to Muslims and Immigrants like Trump wants to? If you're going to criticize me, make sure Trump isn't guilty of what you claim I am doing.

 

[TheIronRuler]

I love trump. I supported him when he ran in the primaries and when he ran in the general. It's wonderful that such a meme managed to win the US presidency based purely on campaigning skills. You've elected Reagan, a former-movie star, and then you've elected a tv reality show host... Subarashi! I love this timeline.

To add even more, he is giving my country a big 'ol bear hug, one which I thoroughly enjoy. Yeah, move that embassy! Recognize them heights! Woosh.

I love you Donnie. I listen to Official Donald Trump Anthem on repeat.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

It'd be awkward if it has the reports from like American spies in Russia in it or something like that.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

As most predicted, A federal judge ruled against Trump's blocking of congressional subpoena to investigate his financial records and endorsed Congressional powers to investigate the President.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/20/judge-rules-against-trump-in-lawsuit-to-block-democrats-subpoena-for-financial-records.html



As previously reported, Deutsche Bank Staff Saw Suspicious Activity in Trump and Kushner Accounts:

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. ? Anti-money-laundering specialists at Deutsche Bank recommended in 2016 and 2017 that multiple transactions involving legal entities controlled by Donald J. Trump and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, be reported to a federal financial-crimes watchdog.

The transactions, some of which involved Mr. Trump?s now-defunct foundation, set off alerts in a computer system designed to detect illicit activity, according to five current and former bank employees. Compliance staff members who then reviewed the transactions prepared so-called suspicious activity reports that they believed should be sent to a unit of the Treasury Department that polices financial crimes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/19/business/deutsche-bank-trump-kushner.html

Gaining access to Trump's financial documents will finally allow them to follow the money trail to better connect the events related to the suspicious activity. Of Course Trump isn't done trying to block investigators, but with every court ruling, they are one step closer to being able to actually move forward on being able to take action on previous reports.

I love trump. I supported him when he ran in the primaries and when he ran in the general. It's wonderful that such a meme managed to win the US presidency based purely on campaigning skills. You've elected Reagan, a former-movie star, and then you've elected a tv reality show host... Subarashi! I love this timeline.

To add even more, he is giving my country a big 'ol bear hug, one which I thoroughly enjoy. Yeah, move that embassy! Recognize them heights! Woosh.

I love you Donnie. I listen to Official Donald Trump Anthem on repeat.

I do hope this is a joke. If not, you need to seek help. Quickly. There are plenty of good people to look up to in this world, this low life is not one of them. He didn't win on "campaigning power" the guy has been in bed with the mob forever. Anyone can threaten and lie out their arse and deceive people to screw them over for personal gain, but why would anyone think that is a good thing? As a society, if we elevate people for being a scum bag, that is all society will become. Why would we want to live in a world where everyone disrespects everyone and all things and destroys everything they touch instead of one where everyone works to make it a better place for everyone in it?

 

[Agema]

I do hope this is a joke.

Probably mostly not. If you're a rightish leaning Israeli then Trump is like the second coming (to use an amusingly inappropriate metaphor): he's giving Israel everything it wants and attacking anything and anyone opposed to what it wants.

 

[TheIronRuler]

I do hope this is a joke.

Probably mostly not. If you're a rightish leaning Israeli then Trump is like the second coming (to use an amusingly inappropriate metaphor): he's giving Israel everything it wants and attacking anything and anyone opposed to what it wants.

.
I wonder how you've learned that, ey?
.

.

.
Mostly a joke, search for "Donald Trump Anthem" on youtube, at your own risk, it's graphic and hilarious. I do agree he is an absolute meme shit-lord at this point...

Abbas : "Hey lets do a peace-conference, taking into consideration the natural rights of both peoples"

Trump: "I'll let east-Asian countries throw some money at you so you'll shut up"

Classic Trump.

 

[Marik2]

As most predicted, A federal judge ruled against Trump's blocking of congressional subpoena to investigate his financial records and endorsed Congressional powers to investigate the President.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/20/judge-rules-against-trump-in-lawsuit-to-block-democrats-subpoena-for-financial-records.html



As previously reported, Deutsche Bank Staff Saw Suspicious Activity in Trump and Kushner Accounts:

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. ? Anti-money-laundering specialists at Deutsche Bank recommended in 2016 and 2017 that multiple transactions involving legal entities controlled by Donald J. Trump and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, be reported to a federal financial-crimes watchdog.

The transactions, some of which involved Mr. Trump?s now-defunct foundation, set off alerts in a computer system designed to detect illicit activity, according to five current and former bank employees. Compliance staff members who then reviewed the transactions prepared so-called suspicious activity reports that they believed should be sent to a unit of the Treasury Department that polices financial crimes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/19/business/deutsche-bank-trump-kushner.html

Gaining access to Trump's financial documents will finally allow them to follow the money trail to better connect the events related to the suspicious activity. Of Course Trump isn't done trying to block investigators, but with every court ruling, they are one step closer to being able to actually move forward on being able to take action on previous reports.

I love trump. I supported him when he ran in the primaries and when he ran in the general. It's wonderful that such a meme managed to win the US presidency based purely on campaigning skills. You've elected Reagan, a former-movie star, and then you've elected a tv reality show host... Subarashi! I love this timeline.

To add even more, he is giving my country a big 'ol bear hug, one which I thoroughly enjoy. Yeah, move that embassy! Recognize them heights! Woosh.

I love you Donnie. I listen to Official Donald Trump Anthem on repeat.

I do hope this is a joke. If not, you need to seek help. Quickly. There are plenty of good people to look up to in this world, this low life is not one of them. He didn't win on "campaigning power" the guy has been in bed with the mob forever. Anyone can threaten and lie out their arse and deceive people to screw them over for personal gain, but why would anyone think that is a good thing? As a society, if we elevate people for being a scum bag, that is all society will become. Why would we want to live in a world where everyone disrespects everyone and all things and destroys everything they touch instead of one where everyone works to make it a better place for everyone in it?

He uses dark humor and cynicism to get by living in a war zone.

 

[Marik2]

I love you Donnie. I listen to Official Donald Trump Anthem on repeat.

I checked it out and it's retarded, and not in a fun good way.