[Politics] In Light of Recent Events, How Do You Feel About "Preachy" Environmentalist Media

[Cicada 5]

Captain Planet, Ferngully, Avatar (the James Cameron movie not the tv show). For a long time these and many more examples environmentalism-focused media were deemed too "preachy and simplistic". With stuff like the Amazon rainforest burning up and the icebergs melting, do you think so called preachy environmentalist media was needed all along or not?

 

[skywolfblue]

"Preachy" environmentalist media tends to skimp on actual science, and follow more extremist environmentalism.

Because all we need right now is more extremism! /sarcasm

It does bother me that a lot of people put politics before science. Every place on earth is suffering very visible effects of global warming and pollution. If reality itself cannot change their opinion, I doubt a preachy environmentalist video will.

 

[Agema]

Who cares about preachy fucking media?

Basically, we're fucked. The people with the money running the show want to burn it all down for $$$. They'll pocket all the money and die in great comfort (like the recently departed David Koch) reclining on their couches made of $100 dollar bills, and it'll be younger generations left to clear the shit up. I guess technically their descendants have to deal with the shit as well, but a few billions will buy a lot of luxury bunkers in disaster-proof parts of the world when everything collapses.

Complaining about preachy environmental media is like mocking the sartorial style of a civilian that tried to stop a tank from trundling along to blow your house up.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

A lot of media aspiring to environmentalism could stand to take a page from Princess Mononoke. In things like Ferngully and Captain industry is basically a monster. Princess Mononoke is a good environmentalist movie because it doesn't glorify some kind of imagined way of life 'in harmony with nature'. The old world ruled by the nature gods is shown to be opressive and difficult for the avarage peasant who is pressed into pre-industrial serfdom by the old elites, whereas in Iron Town industrial developement has lead to pushes for greater egalitarianism, a higher standard of living and advances towards curing diseases. It's not perfect by any means, at risk of being corrupted by greed and militarism, but it is in no way implied that humanity would be better off as naked treehuggers, and though the Nature Gods must be respected to some degree to maintain the integrity of the environment, there is no illusion that nature is some kind of benevolent 'mother earth' who can just step in and end the Hobbsian cycle of violence and make life any less short and brutish by having everyone wear loincloths and eat fruit straight off the vine. It's a good message about how even though we need to protect the environment, we also shouldn't condemn the developing countries of the world to have their people languish in opressive pre-industrial agrarianism out of some delusion that it is better for them. Developement has to be sustainable and the more developed have to abandon excess rather than denying the poor the opportunity to develop

 

[Trunkage]

The Last Airbender was pretty preachy

Preachy is a stand in for other words like Politically Correct, be civil or stop being offended. It means the don't want to engage with your argument and just pretend they've already won

Anyone who does something in response to someone being 'preachy' is just trying to find an excuse to do what they want. Any excuse will do

 

[Baffle]

Should've preached harder, it didn't work.

 

[CaitSeith]

I didn't realize Avatar was a "preachy" environmentalist movie, and not "'Dance with Wolves' in spaaaaace".

 

[Saelune]

I think the problem is pretending that taking away straws is going to stop wasteful corporations from being wasteful.

Until the governments of the world force corporations and themselves to do something, it wont actually matter if we use straws or plastic bags.

 

[Trunkage]

I didn't realize Avatar was a "preachy" environmentalist movie, and not "'Dance with Wolves' in spaaaaace".

It's been a while since I've seen it, but I remember Dances with Wolves being preachy

Also, Avatar is Pocahontas in Space. Which is also preachy. It's almost like movies are DESIGNED to be preachy.

 

[Asita]

Well to answer the question in a general sense: By the time something can accurately be characterized as "preachy" it has already sacrificed its ability to convince people of its point. Preachiness is more self-congratulatory than it is influential.

To the specifics though...I'd argue that the Lorax (children's book, 1972 animation) did far better than those examples. Heck, environmentalism is so tangential in Dances With Space Wolves Avatar that it might as well not exist. Ferngully, on the other hand...well suffice it to say that the magical framing devices allow it to undercut the tragedy that should be driving its messaging.

 

[Hawki]

Did the definition of "preachy" change at some point along the line?

Fine, whatever.

Captain Planet, Ferngully, Avatar (the James Cameron movie not the tv show) and many more.

Captain Planet is the only one of those examples I'd call preachy.

With stuff like the Amazon rainforest burning up and the icebergs melting, do you think so called preachy environmentalist media was needed all along or not?

It's a moot point. The people who've driven Amazon deforestation aren't the people who would have watched stuff like CP and FG in their youth. Maybe consumers though, but as most of Amazon deforestation is driven by ranching, and neither CP nor FG went into the environmental impact of beef that much, then, yeah.

I think most people are well enough educated on climate change and environental degragation that they don't need to be preached to from cartoons. Certainly CP influenced me as a kid, but that was at a time when global warming was more "a thing that exists but will play out over an extended period of time," not "holy shit, we're at the eleventh hour." Guess I can take some gratification that the "what if?" future Wheeler visits in the future of the 2020s hasn't happened yet, but it still could.

 

[Kwak]

Is media that portrays slavery or genocide or murder or paedophilia as a bad thing "preachy" too?

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

Did the definition of "preachy" change at some point along the line?

Fine, whatever.

Captain Planet, Ferngully, Avatar (the James Cameron movie not the tv show) and many more.

Captain Planet is the only one of those examples I'd call preachy.

Same. The others aren't exactly subtle but they're not turning to the audience directly to tell them how bad stuff is. Since Princess Mononoke got a mention earlier, that would simply have a message, while Pom Poko would be preachy

 

[Hawki]

Is media that portrays slavery or genocide or murder or paedophilia as a bad thing "preachy" too?

Anything can be conveyed in a preachy manner. The "preachiness" is based on the nature of its delivery, not its content.

Captain Planet can reasonably be called preachy because, among other things, every episode ended with the characters literally talking to the camera and telling people how they can better help the environment and whatnot. In contrast, even if FernGully is pro-environment, it doesn't have a moment of directly addressing the audience or anything similar.

Not that addressing the audience is the be all and end all of preachiness, granted.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

Can't stand it, and I say that as a fairly hard line environmentalist who actually wants shit done. "Bloo bloo bloo! The planet is burning!" is pretty accurate, but it's also whinging nonsense at the center of a polarized debate, and there are three groups that pivot right back to that same, tired argument: A) limo liberals making a quick buck off partisan politics, B) the die-hard Kool-aid chuggers more than happy to let the planet burn just to say "I told you so", and C) fossil fuel lobbyists who rely on the debate staying polarized to continue making raking in those MoronBux on the other side.

"The fossil fuel industry is welfare capitalism at its finest, and they support anti-US terrorism" is damn well what the debate should be -- we have the receipts -- and what environmentalists should be pushing the debate towards. "Sucking the planet dry" doesn't move the debate forward, "in cahoots with those responsible for 9/11" does. Oil's fungible and sold globally, which means US demand for oil advances the economic interests of OPEC and the GCC, which are the real hotbeds for anti-American sentiment that translates to policy and action that harms our foreign interests. And Russia, too, I guess, if you're a blue-shirt McCarthy wannabe.

Reframing that debate nets the same policy outcomes, and carries a preferable cost-benefit profile than the current debate framing. There's absolutely no reason to resist that shift, except reframing the debate is contrary to the vested interests of economic and policy elites on both sides.

 

[BrawlMan]

The Last Airbender was pretty preachy

The only episode that was preachy is The Painted Lady. Not much happens and felt like a waste time back then I was 17. That, and the whole Aang not wanting to kill Ozai thing that happened out og nowhere in the last few episode. As much as I love Avatar: TLAB, that plot point felt forced.

Legend of Korra is preachy to a worse degree when it involves the Spirits. Humans are supposed to be kind and respectful to them, yet the Spirits don't do the same, and have always been assholes to humans in the flashbacks shown in Season 2. Them running away like bitches in Season 4 when Korra begged them help seal my hatred and opinion of them. Claiming "it's not their problem or their fight". In the sequel comics, their cowardice finally bit them in the ass for once. I just hope the same happens to Suyin Beifong too. God, I hate her even more at times.

I didn't realize Avatar was a "preachy" environmentalist movie, and not "'Dance with Wolves' in spaaaaace".

It's been a while since I've seen it, but I remember Dances with Wolves being preachy

Also, Avatar is Pocahontas in Space. Which is also preachy. It's almost like movies are DESIGNED to be preachy.

James Cameron's Avatar (2009) was preachy as fuck! The Navi are glorified <link=https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CantArgueWithElves>space elves that supposed to be seen as better than humanity. What a crock of shit. They're arrogant and not much better, coming off as unsympathetic.

The media that did environmentalism right with nuance and subtly, without dogging on humanity or insulting the audience are:

Sonic CD - Sonic in general has done this well 95% of the time.

Princess Mononoke - Did every thing better than Avatar (2009) back in 1999. This movie had a message that was not preachy (unless your name is Doug Walker, but he's a dumbass) and the grey areas that Avatar (2009) lacked. Studio Ghibli in general usually gets this right.

Liberation Maiden

The Lorax - The book and the 1972 movie. We don't talk about that other "adaption".

Shaman King (anime version only) - The author and artist got a bug up his own ass, got uppity with how the world "worked". Thinking his boy toy, villain, would be a better person in charge, because he lost his fucking mommy. Keep in mind, this fuck nut has killed over a thousand people, regardless if they were human or shaman. Hao Asakura is nothing more than a petty child taking his anger out on the world. Not some savior of nature or the Earth. It's a good thing the anime portrayed him as the asshole he actually is.

Parasyte - Though that is more of a subversion at the half way point in the manga or anime.


While Captain Planet can get preachy, it was one of the first of its kind at the time to make this in to a TV series. So it should not be hated on that much for what was new at the time. Plus, at least the show and the characters are entertaining. The theme song I consider fun to hear ("You'll pay for this , Captain Planet!"). The show has some great episodes. Ferngully is not as preachy as some people exaggerate the film to be, but I can understand to a degree. Ferngully main problem is that you have characters like Batty (the late Robin Williams) and Hexxus (the awesomeness that is Tim Curry) outshine all of the main characters. Though I do have a soft spot Crysta and Zack. More so the former. I still miss Robin so much. He made me laugh a lot as a child. When I got older, I never realized how much Tim Curry was apart of my childhood.

Well that got heavy. It's all I got right now.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Define "preachy".

 

[Silvanus]

Can't stand it, and I say that as a fairly hard line environmentalist who actually wants shit done. "Bloo bloo bloo! The planet is burning!" is pretty accurate, but it's also whinging nonsense at the center of a polarized debate, and there are three groups that pivot right back to that same, tired argument: A) limo liberals making a quick buck off partisan politics, B) the die-hard Kool-aid chuggers more than happy to let the planet burn just to say "I told you so", and C) fossil fuel lobbyists who rely on the debate staying polarized to continue making raking in those MoronBux on the other side.

"The fossil fuel industry is welfare capitalism at its finest, and they support anti-US terrorism" is damn well what the debate should be -- we have the receipts -- and what environmentalists should be pushing the debate towards. "Sucking the planet dry" doesn't move the debate forward, "in cahoots with those responsible for 9/11" does.

You believe the debate should... wilfully shift away from the actual dangers of climate change? To play the blame-game instead?

I can think of nothing worse for making a polarised debate even more polarised.

 

[bluegate]

No amount of preachy television shows will make the rich switch away from their current short term profit strategies.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

You believe the debate should... wilfully shift away from the actual dangers of climate change? To play the blame-game instead?

Already is the blame game, boyo. It's just a blame game half the country -- since this is necessarily a discussion framed around US politics -- doesn't give a shit about, and another goodly portion hear about and think, "Christ, what a prick". And absolutely, the debate should shift away from climate change to economic and security self-interest, because that's what changes minds and gets policy positions enacted. They key policy positions are the exact same, and have the same policy outcomes, so why is the left irrationally wasting its time arguing a point that's never, ever going to be won, when it can reframe the debate around a subject practically no one has ever used and lost?