I would rather other people(old people) not vote.
Old people voting has caused most of the problems of the 21st century.
Old people voting has caused most of the problems of the 21st century.
[Politics] Political Questions and a Massive Angry Rant
- Thread starter Elvis Starburst
- Start date
Nowadays, it's more that you get to vote if you can afford the time off work. Casting a ballot seems a lot less important when the time it takes to cast that ballot is the difference between having a few gallons of gas or dinner, or not.undeadsuitor said:
One of the Dem candidates said they'd make election day a national holiday if they get to be PotUS.Eacaraxe said:
The people of every century seem determined to fuck the next. Would certainly explain why a bunchof old men decided to start WW1Gergar12 said:
I think your problem isn't that you want true political change, but rather you want fast political change. Go back 10 years and see what changed just in that time (gay and trans rights, health insurance reform, substantial progress on marijuana decriminalization, etc.). Now go back 20. Now 30. 50. The farther back you go, the more change you see, for better or worse. That's not an accident.Elvis Starburst said:
Real political change isn't something that happens in a single election or at the direction of a single president. It happens, slowly, through small, inperceivable changes until a dam breaks with landmark legislation (such as Social Security 30 years after it was originally proposed) or judicial decisions (gay marriage). It takes real work, patience, and constant engagement, changing one mind at a time, then a city at a time, then a county at a time, then a state, then, just maybe, the federal government.
Democracy is hard.[footnote]I had a better screed of this from 2016, but was lost in the great closing of the R&P section[/footnote] It requires compromise, half-measures, and slow forward steps. It requires engaging in every area that you can make progress (politicians, community groups, news outlets, companies, parties, friends, family, strangers, etc.) to try and convince them to be willing to side with you. It requires being willing to vote for people who you could get the ear of over those who won't even give you the time of day. And above all, it requires a level of patience that few today really possess. Because real change is not something that happens overnight, but something that happens slowly over time until it becomes undeniable. Conservatives have taken this approach and you can draw a straight line from the failed Goldwater campaign to Trumpism, with Republican judges, politicians, and leaders all pushing their agenda slowly to insure certain policies are taken as dogma within the party. There's no reason it cannot be the same elsewhere in politics.
And your vote is integral to that. If you don't vote, no one has any reason to care about what you think.
An addendum:
About 50 years and 3 weeks ago, a transwoman threw a brick and started the modern LGBT movement. Most of the basic rights I have now, the right for me and my partner to marry, the right for me to get treatment, and the right to have an otherwise ordinary life, started with that moment, but only became real in the last decade. That progress has been made through those small steps I mentioned above, with groups convincing politicians of their humanity, and many office holders themselves coming out in large and small moments of bravery. It has not been ten years since many of those rights I enjoy became real, and there are many places in the US where people in the same position as me do not have all of those rights. Much remains to be done, but it is through the democratic process, slowly, painfully, often grudgingly, that that progress is made.
He's right. If you don't vote, remove yourself from political discussion. You had in your hands the power to, at the very least, vote for someone that wasn't the big two, and you didn't. You wasted the only power a citizen can have. You'd do well to listen to your coworker to shut up about things you clearly didn't give enough of a shit about, no matter what you say
Yeah, gonna be a hard no on that one.JamesStone said:
I don't agree with the notion that not acting removes any weight to opinions. The "put your money where your mouth is" argument should still apply in some circumstances, but I firmly disagree with the idea that just because one's power isn't being used, somehow their opinions or feelings towards something don't matter and shouldn't be heard. What about those who have opinions that cannot vote or are not in a position to take their own action? Bet they'd "do well to shut up" too.
So what if I have the power to vote? As I've stated numerous times here, I don't believe in any parties in my country to follow through with what I hope they will, or follow up with any of the reasons that would make me vote for them in the first place. I don't trust politicians to do good on their words and promises. And despite that, someone like you would tell me to "do well to listen to him and shut up" and to remove myself from politics.
Whatever you may feel towards me and my opinions based on your stance, I don't believe in gate-keeping opinions on these matters to voters alone. You're free to disagree with me, I'm not stating this to change your mind or anything
In most of whole world election day is a sunday, a saturday or a holyday or otherwise free day.Eacaraxe said:
Only nations that want lower participation from the working class have elections on working days.
Fuck that noise, election day should be a national holiday with mandatory paid time-off to go to the polls, federal no-excuse early voting, and no goddamn electronic voting. Least of all until the private corporations that design and manufacture voting machines, and those that administrate them, iron out those nasty little glitches that always seem to result in calibration or reporting errors in blue and poor districts.Satinavian said:
Like three years ago when my vote for Johnson went through just fine, but my mom's vote for Hillary just wouldn't seem to go through. Damn touchscreen just kept reporting it as a vote for Trump for some reason; it took some finagling and several tries, but finally it went through only for the print receipt to show it as a Trump vote anyways. Poll workers were hellbent for leather on insisting it was just a graphical glitch, everything was fine, and they couldn't let her recast her ballot on a different machine despite the fact it hadn't been accepted yet, but they backed down real fast when I pulled out my cell phone and started digging for the home numbers of the state ACLU's board directors and legal counsel, and some reporters and editors I knew.
Damn software glitches.
There are a lot of laws and measures being imposed on voting ballots to prevent the undesirables from voting. You may not think your vote is worth anything; but those high in power seem to disagree.Elvis Starburst said:
If the system is built around keeping you down as hard as possible, then you either change yourself or change the system.
So current day, yes.Satinavian said:
Historically, Tuesday was chosen to allow more voter turnout (from the landed gentry). Getting to polling places could take a full day's coach/wagon/trailer/horse/etc ride. Tuesday voting allowed travelling on Monday (Sunday was "The Lord's Day", so no working/travelling which rules out Saturday/Sunday for voting).
Satinavian said:
Or, alternatively, we could go to a far lazier, more effective, and easily auditable system: uniform Mail-in voting.Eacaraxe said:
I live in a state with mail-in voting (Washington). Voting rates (as measured by votes/eligible population range) from 5 to 10 points higher than the national average [https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_elections]. Ditto where I used to live in Oregon, where that can increase by 10-15% over the national average in some elections.
It is also less expensive and creates a better papertrail for recounts [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/27/15701708/voting-by-mail]. Plus, you know, you can just put a stamp on it and put it in a postbox (or if you're cheep or paranoid, one of the many many many drop boxes throughout the county). There's no lines and you can mail or drop it off any time before the cutoff (by mail tends to be a few days before just dropping it off at a county bin). I often bring stamps to my less enthusiastic friends so that they can mail in their ballot.
Lazy, economical, and effective: the perfect way to vote.