Poll: A Rant About Emulation!

[teqrevisited]

My personal guidelines that I usually follow are as long as:

1 You own the version of the game that you are emulating.
and
2 You own the hardware that you are emulating.
then there is no problem.

Exceptions I make are when the games in question were never released in my region to begin with or if that version of the game is no longer available to buy at a reasonable price.

On point 1 I know there are various re-releases of certain games (Sonic 1, for example, is available on various digital download services) but I still believe that as long as the original version is owned then the original version you can emulate. No upgrading to the perceived fancier version with extra bits just because it's "basically the same game". Those extras are for those who own that version.

On 2 If your hardware (Inc game cartridges, discs) is broken: tough titties. Repair that shit or pony up for a replacement.

Again, just my personal rules.

 

[JustPhil]

I'm all for emulation.
A while back I found Driver 2, popped it in my PS2 and started playing it for the first time in about 10 years. Unfortunately it's an absolute slideshow on its native hardware to the point where it's almost unplayable in parts.
Decided to rip the disks onto my PC and run it on an emulator instead, it's a metric shit-ton more fun when it plays at a solid, high frame rate (and also at 1080p with AA and nifty little shader plugins that make it look prettier).

So if you already own the hardware and software, emulation is 100% fine.

 

[Entitled]

Really, the only people who would have anything against emulation would be that anal type of people with the obsessive-compulsive law abiding, who would basically claim that all unauthorised downloading means taking away someone's property, because the law calls that "intellectual property", therefore infringing on it must always be theft.

 

[Strazdas]

The link was already removed when i got here, so i dont know the main argument the OP was making.
Emulation is good. technologyp rogressed forward. however that does not mean old software should be abandoned. however the new hardware simply cant support the old hardware becuase if it did it was at a standstill. this is where emulation comes in and saves the day, it allows new hardware, old software combination. and it does not matter if its a commodore program runing on win7.

I was even more peeved off to find out that light gun games do not work on flatscreen televisions, meaning that True light gun games regardless of bullshit laws based around them, are essentially dead. an era has ended. BRING BACK CRT!

You can get old CRT monitors very cheap. it may not be the perfect thing but it does the work just fine. just conenct it to that monitor instead of TV.

Steam has an offline mode, so you actually don't need to be always-online in order to play your games.

In many games you still need an account verification (which means being online at at least one point since computer was turned on) for the game to start. once there it does not do some always online DRM or anything, but you need the initial verification check. Most steam games are actually cracked by emulating such check, tricking the game to think its authorized. but those are dirty cracks. clean cracks (the good and famous groups) removes the games need to check for that, but thatsh arder to program so its usually coming out later (read: 5 hours after release or so).

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

What the flying fuck are you talking about? I wasn't trying any passive-aggressive bullshit, I was simply stating my opinion on the matter. The fact that you and many others never even heard of anyone having an issue with emulators surprised me. Nothing more. How about you get off your high horse and accept that not everyone agrees with you, or better yet make an actual argument on the matter rather than just insulting me?

To answer your question, I see that as a grey-area that I can't quite decide on, so I go the "safe than sorry" route and don't do it. My morals mean a LOT to me, so doing something that may defy them isn't something I'm fond of. There is some hypocrisy with it, which I'm continuing to try to figure out, but people like you blatantly insulting me instead of making a polite counter-argument isn't helping matters in the slightest.

Sorry, you're first post sounded like you imply that since you only don't do it because you've morals, that we other mortal beings have none.
I can't understand that sayin' you sounded passive-aggressive is a blatant insult.

I don't need to have a counter argument, because i do not want to persuade you to anything. I just wanted to know why you think the company you bought it cares HOW you play your game.
To me it's not diffrent to modding. Or rigging a diffrent controller to your console. Or play on a beamer instead of a TV.
If i own the game, i play the way i want it and no company has any rights to tell me otherwise.

The other part is: Emulating stuff i lost when i moved or someone threw away accidentially and games which just do not exist (get sold) anymore.

 

[Swishdude]

Steam is a digital marketplace created by Valve Software of Half-Life fame. Originally created as a method for Valve to release and manage their own software. Steam has since expanded to sell a whole bunch of PC games from various developers and publishers. I imagine your friend doesn't like steam for it's DRM practices, since it requires you to be online. However Valve has treated it's users well and in good faith Steam has continued to grow in popularity every single day.

Steam has an offline mode, so you actually don't need to be always-online in order to play your games.

Really, most people completely forget that Steam is technically DRM software, it's unobtrusive (at no point will it stop your game to do some kind of DRM-checking bullshit) and has lots of benefits, like auto-patching for games, a game library, friends list. Oh, and cheap cheap sales, 75% off is very common, and on good games too.

You can go offline, but you need to be online first before you can play offline. I like it though, Steam is pretty awesome!

 

[klaynexas3]

The Escapist community. Avid against piracy, but when it's for emulation, hell yeah it's alright.

I myself use emulators, don't think I'm knocking it, I just find it amusing how contradictory this community can be.

The reason why is because Emulation does not equal piracy. You can take the files off of anything and emulate it to play on another system and theres nothing wrong with that. Its your property so you can do whatever you want with it. People are even more for regular emulation where a company takes an old game and puts it on something else. Kind of how Atlus had Persona 4 on PS2 originally but recently rereleased it on the PS Vita

That kind of stuff is not piracy and still uses emulators

I know not all of it is piracy, but some of what people have been talking about emulating would involve some form of piracy, and I know not everyone on this site can claim to have never committed an act of piracy. I don't condemn it, because I don't equate it exactly with stealing, just free loading, but I've known this site to condemn it, that's why I'm calling it out on it.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

I love it. Being able to play literally every console game up until the Wii in 720p... Bliss.

What's the point though? Low res textures, fixed draw distance, usually no Anti-Aliasing, potential slow downs, and sometimes weird graphical issues. I find it best just to play games in their native resolution, windowed mode. That and it allows me to have something playing in VLC or youtube next to it.

As I understand it, Emulating games is okay only if you can't purchase it anywhere or own the game AND copy it (make the ROM) yourself. These two both narrow the instances of legal use of roms down very greatly. Most people who use them can't/won't make the roms themselves. While developers may not release all of their old titles for sale, there is a large collectors market for old cartridges and the like. If you can pick up copy of Crystalis in good condition for $70, welp, you're able to purchase it.

However, who's going to pay $70 for an old game? The law may say it's illegal, however, let's look at it this way.

You want game X. X isn't being sold new any more. The Pub/Dev don't get any money if you buy it second-hand. If you buy it second hand the console is going to break eventually. It's unlikely you'll be able to repair or replace it as the consoles get rarer every day as more of them break. Eventually there will be none left.

You might as well just go digital.
I like PC because I can keep my games pretty much forever. At least, the ones without DRM. Oh wait! Cracks! I have some really old games that don't work any more on a modern PC. I play them by emulating MS-DOS. Aren't computers fun?

2 You own the hardware that you are emulating.
then there is no problem.
--> If your hardware (Inc game cartridges, discs) is broken: tough titties. Repair that shit or pony up for a replacement.

Could you try and explain this one to me? I can't follow the train of thought here.
If you own the console or the disc/cartridge/holochip/whatever, you've paid for it. Having a digital copy for personal use is perfectly legal. The hardware may be bust, but you still own it, so (as far as I'm aware) it's still fine to have a digital copy.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

Double posted, my bad.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

As I have no access to a TV right now, emulation is the only way I get to play my PS2 games, so yes, it's completely fine by me.

 

[viranimus]

I do have to wonder about its validity despite its legality.

Spoiler: Expansive rumination

For one, if you are emulating games, look at what you can hypothetically emulate right now. The most effective emulators out there right now can do, Gamecube/Wii (Dolphin) PS2(PCSX2), Xbox (cxbx/Dxbx) or handhelds. For the most part that represents systems that even their successors are pushing 10 years (Dolphin IS Weird) and these consoles have gained a degree of complexity that just simply adding more horsepower is not going to open up viable emulation states.

Then you have to wonder, out of these who EMU games, how many in some way or another DID in fact put forth money toward the product when it was still in its "marketable" stage? Even a rented copy of a game still represents a game sold. It is simply utilized in a semi communal structure. But the money was still provided. Same is true of "loaned" copies from friends and games bought used. Those manufacturers Did in fact receive funds for such sales under first sale doctrine expectations applied to every product. Then typically look at the types of games that Emulators Emulate. More often than not it really is not to go back and play something they never played before, but to play something they did in fact play and loved but for what ever reason no longer have the ability to access the original source they utilized to experience it during its marketable phase that created the love for it.

Now on the one hand up until fairly recently, the picture was actually much clearer. The EMU market was for the most part a niche element. (At least that is what the console manufacturers keep telling us when we expect backwards compat emulation anyway) and does not nor has ever represented a large berth of the market. With the largest amount of what is being emulated as noted these are games 10+ years behind the curve on average. Again up until online connectivity became mainstream it was not any big threat to profitability as most of what was being emulated was not in print, never available in region or if both, typically sold as used, which would not have benefited corporate interest anyway. While it might be indeed a niche demographic, the fact that Nintendo viewed it as so much of a threat they put into place a means of benefiting from that demographic into their console (Wii Virtual console) and sites like GOG.com who specialize in "old" games illustrate how viable this "niche" actually is and up until recently it was a niche that was largely ignored and squandered.

On the other hand, with the way that the industry has turned in the last decade, predominantly thanks to online connectivity which has basically enabled most of these negatives, It becomes increasingly harder and harder to rationalize the rights of publishers in the EMU question. They have developed such an absolute disdain for their customers that it would be hard to say their actions have not proactively PUSHED people to emulation and piracy. While this did exist as an untapped market, you have to wonder how much of the increase of the size of this market is directly proportional to players who do not wish to deal with always on, Real money trading, Online passes, shoehorned multiplayer just for the sake of subversive DRM, content lockouts, content scale back, Preallocated DLC content percentage, etc etc etc.

Then we also have to look at how these players in the industry have in turn worked to "meet" this markets demand. GOG thus far has been exactly how it SHOULD be in every case, if only limited. However look at the likes of Sony who have turned the heinous and illegal (in a commerce sense) action of reneging into an absolute form of abstract art. Then when they and others who are of the "Profit first/Consumers only if we have to" ideology when they DO give access to that old content, it is typically held hostage, requiring extensive hoops, and roadblocks specifically designed to hinder your ability to utilize the original source format in favor of new "monitorable" formats. Then out of a library of over 2000 titles on the PSX for example, only 200+ are even available for download. Even then they have absolutely no respect for appropriate value most of the time. For example a random example a PS2 (that supposedly is impossible for the PS3 to properly emulate and thats why backwards compatibility has not been restored) Midnight club 3 Dub. You can get a copy of this for pocket change at various locations. Even gamestop or amazon will sell it for 4$ but we all know that between flea markets, yard sales, swaps, game stands, pawn shops it is realistic to find something like this being sold for even less, likely even less than 1$. However Sony's incarnation to sell this online through their store comes in at an MSRP of 10 USD. Even older titles for like PSX gen start off at 4$ and the market dictates the same >1$ model. When these people treat their products and their customers in this manner it is hard to be surprised that despite the increase of accessibility of legitimate emulation that illegal emulation is still very much in play.

One other factor to consider is physical hardware. No not the original source consoles, but how with the advent of smartphones this has vastly increased the demographic for such emulation. Your Iphones and Samsung/LG/HTC etc type of devices have not the slightest bit of trouble in performing these tasks and yet there are even more dedicated Emulation devices such as the Dingo A320, Wiz/Caanoo, Dozens from JXD, Yinlips, even more mainstream companies are trying to expand into this "smartphone/tablet with true built in game controls" arena such as Archos and even Nvidia. This will only help further the demand for such things, BUT true devices with such capability like the PSP, Vita, DS, Etc might offer some options, but are incredibly locked out/boxed/restricted so they cannot even compete on this level. And while there is an ever increasing demand, even when they DO allow it, again they fail to understand market value or even consumer utilization. To the largest bulk of EMUlators out there now they predominantly keep vast gaming libraries stored on their phone/tablet/similar device. Do you think they are actually playing through entire swaths of games like they would on a console? No. They use them much in the same way typical "app" games are used. In forced idle times in order to kill a few minutes. But yet again, while the app stores will offer a game that would have 80% function, similar level content and more often than not be anywhere from free, freemium, f2p, or nominal amounts typically WELL below 5$ and closer to 1, we still see the charges as mentioned above for their content too often starting out at 10$ for decade or two old content.

So Summary/TL;DR

Emulation itself is not a problem. In fact many IN the industry like it. To them it allows them to make even more money off of work already done without having to offer any substantial effort. In that respect it becomes a double edge sword because the more they try to milk this market through their own expansion is directly proportional to the increase of those who are going to resist through illegal means. So the best solution to the problem is for those content providers to reverse their SOP of disrespecting and abusing their customers and instead give them a vastly superior product that gives every opportunity to encourage gamers to do the right thing and not have to "risk" all the pratfalls that dealing with the seedy dark alleyways of illegal activity open up.

Side note: On Emulator pricing structures, If they truly want to make money from Emulation and want to remain fair to customers that pricing structure is absolutely ridiculous. They could pry many "EMUers" away from illegal roms simply by accepting people will use their own emulator software, Or even develop their own (Like Sony making an PS/PS2 Emulator for PC, Linux, Android, IOS respectively) and then sell the "Roms/ISOs" in non proprietary format, so as to nullify the need/desire to move to traditional Emulators that do NOT use proprietary file formats. Then instead of pricing based on per game which unless it is one of the true gems of a generation and can merit a price of more than 1$ by itself, Price games in "Blocks" based by publisher. For example, I would never pay 5$ for another version of Final Fantasy 8, But I "Might" be convinced to pay 10-20$ to have every "final fantasy" game on PSX, Or every "Square/Enix" game. The pricing is going to have to come WAAAAY down to ever hope to compete will free.

 

[SecondPrize]

I love it. Being able to play literally every console game up until the Wii in 720p... Bliss.

What's the point though? Low res textures, fixed draw distance, usually no Anti-Aliasing, potential slow downs, and sometimes weird graphical issues. I find it best just to play games in their native resolution, windowed mode. That and it allows me to have something playing in VLC or youtube next to it.

OT:
I'm pro-emulation, but usually buy old games second hand when I see them. I mostly emulate PSX and N64 games that I'm unable to find. I was so upset when my local game station closed, all those beautiful pre-owned games, GONE.

As I understand it, Emulating games is okay only if you can't purchase it anywhere or own the game AND copy it (make the ROM) yourself. These two both narrow the instances of legal use of roms down very greatly. Most people who use them can't/won't make the roms themselves. While developers may not release all of their old titles for sale, there is a large collectors market for old cartridges and the like. If you can pick up copy of Crystalis in good condition for $70, welp, you're able to purchase it.

However, who's going to pay $70 for an old game? The law may say it's illegal, however, let's look at it this way.

You want game X. X isn't being sold new any more. The Pub/Dev don't get any money if you buy it second-hand. If you buy it second hand the console is going to break eventually. It's unlikely you'll be able to repair or replace it as the consoles get rarer every day as more of them break. Eventually there will be none left.

You might as well just go digital.
I like PC because I can keep my games pretty much forever. At least, the ones without DRM. Oh wait! Cracks! I have some really old games that don't work any more on a modern PC. I play them by emulating MS-DOS. Aren't computers fun?

Why should you devalue copies that collectors in the secondhand market own because you don't want to pay the going rate. Yeah, things break and get destroyed over time. This is why collectibles attain such high prices. If everyone just goes online and snags a rom, you're diminishing the value of these collectibles.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

However, who's going to pay $70 for an old game? The law may say it's illegal, however, let's look at it this way.

You want game X. X isn't being sold new any more. The Pub/Dev don't get any money if you buy it second-hand. If you buy it second hand the console is going to break eventually. It's unlikely you'll be able to repair or replace it as the consoles get rarer every day as more of them break. Eventually there will be none left.

You might as well just go digital.
I like PC because I can keep my games pretty much forever. At least, the ones without DRM. Oh wait! Cracks! I have some really old games that don't work any more on a modern PC. I play them by emulating MS-DOS. Aren't computers fun?

Why should you devalue copies that collectors in the secondhand market own because you don't want to pay the going rate. Yeah, things break and get destroyed over time. This is why collectibles attain such high prices. If everyone just goes online and snags a rom, you're diminishing the value of these collectibles.

Oh no. I'm making games cheaper. I am so evil. Please stop me now.

If you want to collect hardware and physical copies, go nuts. I don't. I want to play games. I'd be happy to pay for these games, but I'm not going to pay MORE than I would for a new game. If there were a nice convenient service where I could buy old games cheap and play them I'd be more than happy to do so.

How hard could it possibly be to release an official emulator, sell it cheap and then sell ROMs for old games cheap online?

 

[ItsNotRudy]

Why should you devalue copies that collectors in the secondhand market own because you don't want to pay the going rate. Yeah, things break and get destroyed over time. This is why collectibles attain such high prices. If everyone just goes online and snags a rom, you're diminishing the value of these collectibles.

The PC doesn't preserve well either (La Noire isn't even working from Win7>8 anymore rofl so go figure). If you want to play stuff from the 90s, you need...

An emulator. DOSbox or something like it.
You are diminishing the non-existing value of my box full of Windows 95 games. Stahp.

Why should I be denied a classic... because collecting maniacs want a few bucks more value? I don't even think collectors buy or gather to play the actual game, as it would ruin the condition. Just like... stamp collectors don't use them on actual letters. Also, how much value does a game even have? My limited edition Transparent Gameboy isn't worth more than $100 and I've seen cartridges for older systems pop up on ebay for a few dollars. Nothing old in the gaming industry is worth a damn except for maybe the first Pacman Arcade machine or something. But yet again, to purchase that would be for looks, not to play Pacman.

I've emulated a variety of games, but mostly my own copies that I really wanted to see in HD or share with my girlfriend now that she's very far away from me and we can't play together anymore (she likes to watch me play story intense games, but I digress).

I even got to play Japanese-only titles with translation patches that wouldn't work on my Wii or PS2.

 

[SecondPrize]

However, who's going to pay $70 for an old game? The law may say it's illegal, however, let's look at it this way.

You want game X. X isn't being sold new any more. The Pub/Dev don't get any money if you buy it second-hand. If you buy it second hand the console is going to break eventually. It's unlikely you'll be able to repair or replace it as the consoles get rarer every day as more of them break. Eventually there will be none left.

You might as well just go digital.
I like PC because I can keep my games pretty much forever. At least, the ones without DRM. Oh wait! Cracks! I have some really old games that don't work any more on a modern PC. I play them by emulating MS-DOS. Aren't computers fun?

Why should you devalue copies that collectors in the secondhand market own because you don't want to pay the going rate. Yeah, things break and get destroyed over time. This is why collectibles attain such high prices. If everyone just goes online and snags a rom, you're diminishing the value of these collectibles.

Oh no. I'm making games cheaper. I am so evil. Please stop me now.

If you want to collect hardware and physical copies, go nuts. I don't. I want to play games. I'd be happy to pay for these games, but I'm not going to pay MORE than I would for a new game. If there were a nice convenient service where I could buy old games cheap and play them I'd be more than happy to do so.

How hard could it possibly be to release an official emulator, sell it cheap and then sell ROMs for old games cheap online?

What does a company who own publishing rights for a game releasing official roms have to do with people downloading roms on their own. The game can't be able to be purchased anywhere (yes, even on the secondhand market) or you have to make your own rom from a copy. Those are the instances in which you can legitimately use non-official roms. Of course it'll be preferable to be able to buy them from the developer and to have a huge selection, but that was never the point of my initial post to which you responded.

Why should you devalue copies that collectors in the secondhand market own because you don't want to pay the going rate. Yeah, things break and get destroyed over time. This is why collectibles attain such high prices. If everyone just goes online and snags a rom, you're diminishing the value of these collectibles.

The PC doesn't preserve well either (La Noire isn't even working from Win7>8 anymore rofl so go figure). If you want to play stuff from the 90s, you need...

An emulator. DOSbox or something like it.
You are diminishing the non-existing value of my box full of Windows 95 games. Stahp.

Why should I be denied a classic... because collecting maniacs want a few bucks more value? I don't even think collectors buy or gather to play the actual game, as it would ruin the condition. Just like... stamp collectors don't use them on actual letters. Also, how much value does a game even have? My limited edition Transparent Gameboy isn't worth more than $100 and I've seen cartridges for older systems pop up on ebay for a few dollars. Nothing old in the gaming industry is worth a damn except for maybe the first Pacman Arcade machine or something. But yet again, to purchase that would be for looks, not to play Pacman.

I've emulated a variety of games, but mostly my own copies that I really wanted to see in HD or share with my girlfriend now that she's very far away from me and we can't play together anymore (she likes to watch me play story intense games, but I digress).

I even got to play Japanese-only titles with translation patches that wouldn't work on my Wii or PS2.

I'm not calling for the death of all emulators and roms, only pointing out the legal instances in which one can use roms.
To answer your question, because the maniac collector has a legitimate licensed copy of the game, and as you are able to purchase from them and we wouldn't be discussing this if you had your own copy which you made a rom from, you would not be using a licensed version of the game. In this case, he has the right to sell his copy, and you don't have the right to download a rom not of your own making and play it.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

However, who's going to pay $70 for an old game? The law may say it's illegal, however, let's look at it this way.

You want game X. X isn't being sold new any more. The Pub/Dev don't get any money if you buy it second-hand. If you buy it second hand the console is going to break eventually. It's unlikely you'll be able to repair or replace it as the consoles get rarer every day as more of them break. Eventually there will be none left.

You might as well just go digital.
I like PC because I can keep my games pretty much forever. At least, the ones without DRM. Oh wait! Cracks! I have some really old games that don't work any more on a modern PC. I play them by emulating MS-DOS. Aren't computers fun?

Why should you devalue copies that collectors in the secondhand market own because you don't want to pay the going rate. Yeah, things break and get destroyed over time. This is why collectibles attain such high prices. If everyone just goes online and snags a rom, you're diminishing the value of these collectibles.

Oh no. I'm making games cheaper. I am so evil. Please stop me now.

If you want to collect hardware and physical copies, go nuts. I don't. I want to play games. I'd be happy to pay for these games, but I'm not going to pay MORE than I would for a new game. If there were a nice convenient service where I could buy old games cheap and play them I'd be more than happy to do so.

How hard could it possibly be to release an official emulator, sell it cheap and then sell ROMs for old games cheap online?

What does a company who own publishing rights for a game releasing official roms have to do with people downloading roms on their own. The game can't be able to be purchased anywhere (yes, even on the secondhand market) or you have to make your own rom from a copy. Those are the instances in which you can legitimately use non-official roms. Of course it'll be preferable to be able to buy them from the developer and to have a huge selection, but that was never the point of my initial post to which you responded.

It's what we should be able to do instead, it was a follow on from my own train of though not a further response to you.
My point in my initial response, is that nobody loses. You responded by saying collectors lose. To be perfectly honest, I don't think they do. Surely it's the fact that it's a physical copy or the actual hardware that makes it valuable to a collector, or else they'd be emulating anyway. These physical things will get harder and harder to find as they break and get lost so they'll be more valuable, so no, I don't think I'm damaging the collector's market at all.

 

[SecondPrize]

However, who's going to pay $70 for an old game? The law may say it's illegal, however, let's look at it this way.

You want game X. X isn't being sold new any more. The Pub/Dev don't get any money if you buy it second-hand. If you buy it second hand the console is going to break eventually. It's unlikely you'll be able to repair or replace it as the consoles get rarer every day as more of them break. Eventually there will be none left.

You might as well just go digital.
I like PC because I can keep my games pretty much forever. At least, the ones without DRM. Oh wait! Cracks! I have some really old games that don't work any more on a modern PC. I play them by emulating MS-DOS. Aren't computers fun?

Why should you devalue copies that collectors in the secondhand market own because you don't want to pay the going rate. Yeah, things break and get destroyed over time. This is why collectibles attain such high prices. If everyone just goes online and snags a rom, you're diminishing the value of these collectibles.

Oh no. I'm making games cheaper. I am so evil. Please stop me now.

If you want to collect hardware and physical copies, go nuts. I don't. I want to play games. I'd be happy to pay for these games, but I'm not going to pay MORE than I would for a new game. If there were a nice convenient service where I could buy old games cheap and play them I'd be more than happy to do so.

How hard could it possibly be to release an official emulator, sell it cheap and then sell ROMs for old games cheap online?

What does a company who own publishing rights for a game releasing official roms have to do with people downloading roms on their own. The game can't be able to be purchased anywhere (yes, even on the secondhand market) or you have to make your own rom from a copy. Those are the instances in which you can legitimately use non-official roms. Of course it'll be preferable to be able to buy them from the developer and to have a huge selection, but that was never the point of my initial post to which you responded.

It's what we should be able to do instead, it was a follow on from my own train of though not a further response to you.
My point in my initial response, is that nobody loses. You responded by saying collectors lose. To be perfectly honest, I don't think they do. Surely it's the fact that it's a physical copy or the actual hardware that makes it valuable to a collector, or else they'd be emulating anyway. These physical things will get harder and harder to find as they break and get lost so they'll be more valuable, so no, I don't think I'm damaging the collector's market at all.

So you're not making games cheaper, aren't evil and don't need to be stopped?
With people downloading ROMs and using those, demand for any given title is being satisfied before you even get the secondhand market involved. Without the demand created by people who just want an opportunity to play the game and don't care about the collectible value of a game, you'll see depressed prices for secondhand games. Now, collectors will know that they don't own the publishing rights and whomever does can release a digital copy and fill the demand of those who want to own a copy for playing, but they shouldn't have to deal with a loss of value because of people just going out and downloading ROMs.
whoops double quote, lemme snip one

 

[FFP2]

What's the point though? Low res textures, fixed draw distance, usually no Anti-Aliasing, potential slow downs, and sometimes weird graphical issues. I find it best just to play games in their native resolution, windowed mode. That and it allows me to have something playing in VLC or youtube next to it.

You can up the internal resolution... it scales pretty well for most games eg FF12. And I never use AA even on PC games so it's a non-issue for me.

OT: I just got a Xbox controller for Windows and I'm playing FF12 via PCSX2 with it at 720p... Emulation is an amazing thing.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

Sorry, you're first post sounded like you imply that since you only don't do it because you've morals, that we other mortal beings have none.
I can't understand that sayin' you sounded passive-aggressive is a blatant insult.

I don't need to have a counter argument, because i do not want to persuade you to anything. I just wanted to know why you think the company you bought it cares HOW you play your game.
To me it's not diffrent to modding. Or rigging a diffrent controller to your console. Or play on a beamer instead of a TV.
If i own the game, i play the way i want it and no company has any rights to tell me otherwise.

The other part is: Emulating stuff i lost when i moved or someone threw away accidentially and games which just do not exist (get sold) anymore.

My issue isn't really with games you already own, so much as freely downloading games you don't own. Games you have in your possession isn't really piracy, since you acquired the game legally. Downloading games you don't have, on the other hand, seems like piracy to me. There are some very valid arguments to downloading games that can't be legally acquired without the secondhand market, particularly with how shoddily the copyright laws are written (50 years until something is public domain is just silly imo) and how no money is made anymore by the publisher or devs, but it's still a very grey area that I can't quite make up my mind on. While there definitely is some hypocrisy involved on my part, I avoid downloading emulations of games until I figure this all out.

 

[ItsNotRudy]

I love it. Being able to play literally every console game up until the Wii in 720p... Bliss.

What's the point though? Low res textures, fixed draw distance, usually no Anti-Aliasing, potential slow downs, and sometimes weird graphical issues. I find it best just to play games in their native resolution, windowed mode. That and it allows me to have something playing in VLC or youtube next to it.

http://ultrararespacehighfive.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/1080vnative-ff12.png

That's why.

Also, not everyone wants distraction when trying to immerse into a story.

Also, Anti-Aliasing is something you can set yourself.