Poll: A Song of Ice and Fire Vs The Malazan Book of the Fallen

[Plasmadamage]

And why?

Fantasy readers of the Escapist, I come seeking opinions!I read Game of Thrones because a friend spent several weeks raving about it, and I thought it was worth a try, given all of the positive reviews.

Honestly, I found it... dull. Aside from Tyrion I found the characters pretty unlikeable, and different story threads didn't seem to come together much. Of course this opinion has made me a pariah amongst my friends and wider society, and I have been forced to seek other literature.

In my search, I stumbled across the Malazan Book of the Fallen, of which I am currently reading the 7th book. Its probably just my own tastes, but I think its is orders of magnitude above ASOIF as entertainment. The world is huge and ancient, with a history stretching back (literally)to the dawn of civilisation. The characters just seem better realised, and the system of magic (poorly explained as it is)is my favourite in any fiction. The best part is watching all of the different threads and motivations converge, as well as trying to guess everyones motivations.

So, I come down firmly on the side of the Malazans, but I am a shallow, empty creature who needs his opinions to be validated by strangers. So what, dear strangers, is your opinion?

Also, for BotF readers, who is your favourite character, what warren would you choose and what's your favourite race?

 

[Jacco]

I knew about Game of Thrones back in like 2003 when my friend happened across it and started raving about it.

I tried to read it and never could handle G.R.R. Martin's style. Sex and random bouts of violence is basically all I remember from it. So while my answer doesn't really address your question, I imagine everyone will tell you that you are wrong and that GoT is better because it is all the rage to like it right now.

I can't really validate your opinion other than to say I am one of the very few (it seems) that thinks G.R.R. Martin is a hack writer.

 

[Elfgore]

I've read but never finished a book in either series, yet for some reason I own each novel in both series. Both have their ups and downs.

The books of the fallen I pretty much need pin and paper to remember who the fuck is who. But the writing is amazing and the characters realistic. First fantasy book I've read that has an overweight female as a protagonist.

A game of thrones is pretty much a mild version the books of the fallen. The books are a little slow in the beginning, especially for fans of military fantasy.

In the end I think books of the lost wins. Too bad Glen Cook is the god of fantasy.

 

[Zhukov]

Song of Ice and Fire.

Because it doesn't have a bloody made up fantasy word in the title.

 

[Plasmadamage]

Song of Ice and Fire.

Because it doesn't have a bloody made up fantasy word in the title.

Malazan? It's a name, like say... Westeros. Or Dothraki

 

[Nimzabaat]

I read Gardens of the Moon (tale of the Malazan Empire: Book of the Fallen yada yada) and it really dragged. Then everything of interest happened in the last chapter. A Song of Ice and Fire at least has interesting things happen in the middle.

 

[Adaephon]

I read them both and I much prefer the Malazan books (hence my username being one of the character's names). I think part of the strength of Erikson's/Esslemont's writings comes from how plausible they make such blatantly ridiculous ideas. I mean, there's a race of hive minded velociraptors with swords for arms? that sounds pretty dumb out of context, but when you read it it all sounds completely reasonable. I never could get invested in A Song of Ice and Fire though, I'm not sure why but I just hated all of the characters and thought the writing was very un-immersive. That being said, I feel like ASoIaF had better character names than BotF, I've always hated that tendency in fantasy and sci-fi to put random apostrophes into peoples names, but that is a very petty complaint.

As for the BotF questions, I like the Paran siblings a lot, especially Ganoes. But Tool (or Onos T'oolan if you prefer) really became the emotional heart of the story as the books went on. The Moranth were my favourite race, but only after the Ian Esslemont spin-off book "Orb, Scepter, Throne" really went into their past in detail. Speaking of which, if you haven't read the Esslemont spin-offs you really should. The first two (Night of Knives and Return of the Crimson Guard) drag a bit, but then "Stonewielder", "Orb, Scepter, Throne", and "Blood and Bone" kick ass so it's all worth it.

 

[SpinnokDurav]

I've only read MBotF so I can't really comment on ASoIaF, but I absolutely adore the Malazan series. The huge, sprawling world and lore, the complexity of all the plotlines and things like that really scratch my itch concerning fantasy.
My favorite character is a tossup between Anomander Rake (supreme badass) and Tehol Beddict. My favorite warren is probably Starvald Demelain (there be dragons,yo. The Jaghut are my favorite race, pacifistic orcs who are unbelievably powerful? Fuck yeah.

 

[NortherWolf]

I thoroughly think that ASOIAF is a overhyped piece of 'meh'. It's a "realistic" fantasy series for people that want to think that rambling about made up politics sounds cooler if you remove elves and such form fantasy. Raymond E Feists riftwar books are better at doing what ASOIAF does.
And yet I'd rather read ASOIAF ten times than being forced to reading one more page of the Malazan books ever again. I'd rather read freaking Twilight than I'd pick up any more of Eriksons' books. I picked up one of the Malazan books from the library, after watching TV tropes jammer on about it...And...Fucking really? Death Metal Viking Giants that have weapon oil that turn women into sluts raiding for the better part of a hundred pages? Derpdark settings with uninteresting characters? WHERE DO I GET MORE OF THIS GLORIOUS DERPNESS!
THat's my vote. I pick a bunch of books I partially blame for turning fantasy dull over something that could have been fun.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Only ever read ASOIAF. Never even heard of this Mazalan thing. But now I'm interested. Sell it to me! Maybe I'll try that out next once I've checked out His Dark Materials.

Though the above post does make it sound incredibly silly... please tell me it's not trying to be overly serious. I can't stand fantasy fiction that takes itself too seriously.

 

[Zac Jovanovic]

I've only read ASOIAF.
I actually own the first book of MBOTF but never seem to get to reading it because I always run into a book from a series I already started and it jumps the queue.

the system of magic (poorly explained as it is)is my favourite in any fiction.

How so?

My favorite systems of magic are from works of Brandon Sanderson, mostly because they are well explained and tend to make sense interacting with physics and stuff.

 

[Unknotted]

Despite the flaws in the later books, I found the first three books of ASoIaF to be really engrossing. On the other hand, I once tried reading Gardens of the Moon and only managed to make it through a few chapters. I just couldn't get into it at all. Nothing interesting happened.

I had the same problem with the Black Company books. I guess military fantasy just isn't my thing.

 

[william12123]

I will have to check out those Malazan books, because I found ASOI&F totally unengaging (best possible reason why: darkness induced audience apathy). ASOI&F is one of 2 series that I eventually (after 1.5 books in this case) reacted with "what's the point", put the book down, and never returned to it once.

A book with similar thematic messed-upedness that I DID enjoy was the "Chung Kuo: The middle kingdom" series.

 

[Plasmadamage]

I've only read ASOIAF.
I actually own the first book of MBOTF but never seem to get to reading it because I always run into a book from a series I already started and it jumps the queue.

the system of magic (poorly explained as it is)is my favourite in any fiction.

How so?

My favorite systems of magic are from works of Brandon Sanderson, mostly because they are well explained and tend to make sense interacting with physics and stuff.

Magic in BotF is based on constructs called "warrens" most of which are a kind of pocket dimension, or sometimes an entire separate world, which runs parallel to the Malazan world. Some of these warrens are "aspected", being under the control of a specific god, whilst others are wild. Each warren has power, e.g: Telas is the path of fire, and a mage who wields Telas can project its power through his own body.

However, warrens are a refined form of magic. The Malazan worlds original form of magic was known as Holds, which are capable of destruction on a huge scale, but very little else. A mage wielding a hold can easily devastate an entire army, but will probably be defeated by an experienced wielder of warrens, because of the enhanced flexibility.

But my favourite part of the system is the different ways that warrens can be applied. Mages use warrens for combat, communication and even trasport, because it is possible to pass into your own warren and exit it at a different point. Specific warrens can be used in unique ways by different mages, e.g: Serc, the path of the Sky is a pretty passive warren, but it is used offensively by one mage (with brutal efficiency) by altering the local pressure. You can probably guess how that turns out.

Tbh, this is a pretty shallow explaination, but thats my own fault, cause I can't htink how to explain it properly. Everyone who reads the series is going to have their own opinion on everything, down to what a warren is.

 

[Cerebrawl]

They're both good, I think Malazans was a bit better though.

Though the above post does make it sound incredibly silly... please tell me it's not trying to be overly serious. I can't stand fantasy fiction that takes itself too seriously.

It is gritty, irreverent, believable, down to earth and darkly humorous, and completely, utterly, balls off the wall over the top, shark jumping time. Trench warfare, intrigue and god-slaying, it has it all. And just when you thought it couldn't get any more gobsmackingly over the top intense, it drops some really deep philosophical points and emotional jabs at you.

Oh and it kills off major characters too... though that doesn't always make them unable to participate in some way.

 

[Plasmadamage]

Only ever read ASOIAF. Never even heard of this Mazalan thing. But now I'm interested. Sell it to me! Maybe I'll try that out next once I've checked out His Dark Materials.

Though the above post does make it sound incredibly silly... please tell me it's not trying to be overly serious. I can't stand fantasy fiction that takes itself too seriously.

They're both good, I think Malazans was a bit better though.

Though the above post does make it sound incredibly silly... please tell me it's not trying to be overly serious. I can't stand fantasy fiction that takes itself too seriously.

It is gritty, irreverent, believable, down to earth and darkly humorous, and completely, utterly, balls off the wall over the top, shark jumping time. Trench warfare, intrigue and god-slaying, it has it all. And just when you thought it couldn't get any more gobsmackingly over the top intense, it drops some really deep philosophical points and emotional jabs at you.

Oh and it kills off major characters too... though that doesn't always make them unable to participate in some way.

I basically agree with Cerebrawl. It is incredibly dark in places, but there is a huge amount of black/gallows humour. The combat is the best that I have ever read and the series as a whole does huge, overarching plots that all thread together better than anyone else

 

[WouldYouKindly]

I can explain to you why I like ASOIF, but not how it's better as I haven't read the other books. Though you have given me a new series to read. I'm noticeably lacking in fantasy that isn't just some paint by numbers affair where the good is good, the bad is bad and everything sounds like it was written by a particularly romantic history teacher with a love of the middle ages.

ASOIF is good because the scale changes vastly depending on who's point of view it is at that moment.

Spoiler

You have small stories which only really impact the people involved, like Bran's storyline. You've got far reaching stories like anything to do with the throne, which have massive implications for the various parts of the kingdom and world. Then you mix up the two, like most of Cersei's chapters involving high level court scheming. An inherently personal concern but it's a big game with much to risk. Then there's Arya's story. I love that psychotic little assassin.

I mean seriously, any of the Stark children could have been standard fantasy heroes(in Sansa's case, the classic damsel in distress), but they all end up either failing because of their foolish noble intentions. Arya, the tomboy princess, an origin that sounds outright Disney to me, becomes that psycho assassin rather than the leader of a vengeful army. Rob falls into the same fatal trap his father did. Fitting, he was always his father's son. Sansa is always being used, but at least she's realizing it. Bran is the only one who's story is playing out how I thought it would be. The active kid who becomes crippled finds a new power. Pretty standard. I'm not really sure what to think about John at the moment.

Finally, he made me like Jaime. This guy's first scene was pushing a kid out of a tower window because he caught him fucking his sister. That takes some good writing to keep it from feeling forced.

 

[Aerduin]

For me it is a total no brainer. Malazan Books of the Fallen every time. Read both sets of books ( well gave up after book 5 on Game of Thrones .. just ran itself out for me... )

In my opinion Malazan are amongst the best Fantasy ever written ( the off shoot books about Bauchelain and Korbal Brooch are well worth the read too .. short and with a somewhat twisted sense of humour) and the characters and development are miles ahead of Mr Martins work.

Sure they can be hard work and you can have trouble keeping track of who is who and who is what etc, but persevere with them and you will be rewarded with some of the most heart wrenching epic fantasy ever. Onos T'oolan's tale will break you apart.

Just my 10 pence worth.

 

[Sewa_Yunga]

So far I haven't read either, but ASoIaF is on my to-read list as soon as Game of Thrones has finished. This is the first time I heared about Malazan though... Sounds interesting enough. I'll queue it up

Right now, I still need to finish Otherland (2¼ books to go) and another book by Tad Williams which I forgot the name of. Bobby Dollar pt. 3.