Their bodies their decisions, i believe the woman having the abortion should have been "safer" in the first place, but who are we to dictate how an individual should live their lives.
Poll: Abortion a political issue?
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But if the army are pro choice then what, the world is becomin a very difficult place to be in government and to be an asshole (incompetent and you'll get elected twice but an asshole and you'll get the boot) so unlikely an abortion is bad type will get elected.Ultrajoe post=18.68731.639303 said:
That's my line of thought too. Why put a burden on an unequipped mother and make the baby suffer (hey, even adopted kids could suffer) when there is another solution? There will always be stupid girls who get pregnant, but there are a lot that have other issues they need to deal with (rape for example). Even the stupid girls have to face the responsibility of raising the child, and it might even end many chances they otherwise could have.Jumplion post=18.68731.638565 said:
Bob, its not a secret your stalwart in your beliefs, you have voiced them often, but even the most open minded of us (me) is going to need some more argument than that to not react to this.zachbob2 post=18.68731.639818 said:
Anyone can have their say, their opinion and their standpoint. But if your not going to play the game of fair debate then please keep them to yourself. If nothing else to prevent idiots with less itchy trigger fingers than me exploding.
And my trigger finger is pretty itchy.
I'm decidedly for abortion. I know I sure as hell would get one. It's not just a matter of being unwilling to accept caring for a child, it's also a fact that I am shit scared, and highly resistant to the idea of firstly carrying it, and secondly birthing it. The physical effects on the female body are greater than most assume, and as it's my body, you can take your morality and stick it where the sun don't shine. I do what I want with my own flesh.
One of my biggest gripes in this regard is people who say to me "If you don't want kids, don't have sex." I mean really. Sex isn't just about procreation, it's fun and fitness, at the same time too, and I go for the second two. That said, I always use protection, but accidents still happen.
One of my biggest gripes in this regard is people who say to me "If you don't want kids, don't have sex." I mean really. Sex isn't just about procreation, it's fun and fitness, at the same time too, and I go for the second two. That said, I always use protection, but accidents still happen.
Um, dude that's obvious if the other guy is right. if 46% are arrested within the next 3 years that means 54% aren'tAnniko post=18.68731.639416 said:
Agreed.
Well I predict this thread will end with everyone agreeing. Yup.
To the OP: Everything is a political question. For something not to be a political question would require that thing to not affect anyone else. Considering a Chinese man can fart and I feel the repurcussions, I would think the list of things that aren't political is growing smaller everyday. As you can tell by the mouths above and soon to be below me, everyone thinks their opinion actually matters in this...matter. Bad word choice aside, my point is that as long as people think their opinion requires representation, it then means their opinion is political.
And now back to your regularly scheduled foolery.
To the OP: Everything is a political question. For something not to be a political question would require that thing to not affect anyone else. Considering a Chinese man can fart and I feel the repurcussions, I would think the list of things that aren't political is growing smaller everyday. As you can tell by the mouths above and soon to be below me, everyone thinks their opinion actually matters in this...matter. Bad word choice aside, my point is that as long as people think their opinion requires representation, it then means their opinion is political.
And now back to your regularly scheduled foolery.
The demand for babies in US adoption agencies is far stronger than the supply. To use a topic from another thread, gay couples often look to adoption as the simplest or perhaps most ethical (reasons will vary from couple to couple) way of satisfying their desire to have a family. Many straight couples who are infertile also preferentially look for babies to adopt. And I would point out that men are already on the line - a man who impregnates a woman is totally at her mercy as to whether she aborts the baby, gives the baby up for adoption, or raises the baby. Life's unfair all around, that's its most identifying characteristic.MissDumpling post=18.68731.638830 said:
I would imagine that this will be a political issue in the US election because Obama has several times voted to allow an abortion clinic to not provide care for an infant who survives an abortion attempt. This comes up fairly routinely because the stress of a late-term abortion - legal in many states - can send a woman into labor. (Howard Hughes' sarcasm is spot-on in that regard.) The competing viewpoints - Obama's, that doctors may ignore the unwanted infant and allow it to die of exposure or thirst, and McCain's, that the doctors must provide life-saving care to an unwanted infant born alive even if it is due to an attempted abortion - are pretty diametrically opposed. Add to that McCain's need to lure social conservatives and I'll be really surprised if it doesn't come up this election cycle.
Personally I believe that after a child becomes viable outside the womb, abortion should be illegal except to save the life of the mother. If the mother wishes to be rid of the baby, induce labor. Before the child becomes viable outside the womb, the mother should have the option of abortion. The parallel I draw is that the state cannot order a woman to give up a kidney or part of her liver to save her child, so by the same token if a woman is the only person who can save a child's life by giving up part of her own body and freedom, the state should have no legal right to order her to keep carrying the child even if the child would otherwise die. Plus, forcing a woman to carry the child of a rapist would be pretty horrific, but this gives her at least five months to make up her mind. And forcing a woman to carry a child another four months doesn't ruin her life, just her year.
To those who say the baby has no conscious and is therefore not a person, think of the great 20th century purges. It might start with babies, but after that it's the comatose, then the severely retarded, then genetically mentally or physically impaired, then undesirable adults such as homosexuals or intellectuals or races other than the prevailing race. When you establish the right to kill undesirables, we all face the threat of being declared undesirable.
I think by political he means whether or not it should be up for debate by people like prez candidates.
True, except for adoption in the case that they're married or whatever, hopefully the woman gives his opinion a little weight but she doesn't have to and she shouldn't have to.
Wow, that's pathetic. I think the main reason, to ever have an abortion is so you don't go through 9 months of suffering ending up with pushing something rather large out of your loins. Any woman who'd get an abortion after 7 months and still have to do the same thing except with a slighter smaller object is an ass and deserves a watermelon with several spikes glued on shoved in there. I've never thought I'd give a damn about the presidential candidate's belief's on abortion but......wow Obama, he truely fears adoption.
Most mentally impaired either can feel pain or are conscious and if they aren't I really don't see what the difference between life or death. And bull.
i don't believe someone hasn't called you on this but i will. you sir are a hypocrite. you say it's ok to take the human life of a criminal but not of an unborn childHSIAMetalKing post=18.68731.638949 said:
you can't say it's wrong to take a human life for one set of circumstances and it's wrong with another.
Yes. I understand that. You see, people like a "prez candidate" are actually political figures. They make decisions in such a way that actually affect the relationship between people. Not letting politicians discuss this issue is a political decision. A political body, in this case the masses, would still make the decision. The relationship between people would not change, the issue does not magically become apolitical. It just changes the way in which we discuss the political issue.yourkie1921 post=18.68731.640237 said:
For the first few weeks of pregnancy, the fetus is little more than a Human Shaped Meat Puppet, I do no feel this is reason enough to ruin someones life with an unwanted pregnancy or needlessly increase the worlds population because of an outdated system of morals established 2000 years ago.
Hence I am pro-choice, however, I do understand the other side from a certain point of view. You are denying that child a chance to be, that is somewhat unfair, however, I do not believe in the soul, and I can't support potentially ruining 3 lives (the mother, the father, and the child, if the parents are unpreparred and unwilling to properly raise a child) based on "might have beens" and "maybes".
I don't think governments should be imposing themselves this much on peoples lives, it should be left up to individuals to decide, they're making a hard enough decision as is without the government and church stepping in and condemnng them.
Hence I am pro-choice, however, I do understand the other side from a certain point of view. You are denying that child a chance to be, that is somewhat unfair, however, I do not believe in the soul, and I can't support potentially ruining 3 lives (the mother, the father, and the child, if the parents are unpreparred and unwilling to properly raise a child) based on "might have beens" and "maybes".
I don't think governments should be imposing themselves this much on peoples lives, it should be left up to individuals to decide, they're making a hard enough decision as is without the government and church stepping in and condemnng them.
I have always had incredibly mixed feelings on this subject. Over the years I have had several female friends end up unexpectedly pregnant and the reasons ranged from "oh shit we used protection how did this happen?" to "well I can't take birth control pills because they make me sick and he didn't use a condom because he thinks he's sterile and oh no now I'm pregnant". That last one makes me gnash my teeth, because there is absolutely NO excuse for a woman not being responsible for her own safety during consentual sex. The person in scenario A decided to have an abortion, and it wasn't a decision she took lightly - she had severe depression afterwards, even though she knew that she did not have the means to go through a pregnancy and/or raise a child at that point in her life. The person in scenario B had the child but did so on her own (dad is not in the picture), so she had to sign up for government assistance to help her pay the bills. She had several health complications during pregnancy that will take her a few years to bounce back from.
I can't say which is the right and wrong decision - but I understand that both of these women thought it through for a LONG time and shed many, many tears over it. While I wish that people would learn some damn responsibility, I can't say that taking the choice away and forcing a woman to bear a child as "punishment" for her poor judgement is the right thing to do. Bottom line is, I'm pro-choice and I don't think abortion rights are going away anytime soon, but I really wish that more people would THINK before they get naked and take the proper steps to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
(Just adding that I know there's no such thing as "100% effective" birth control...but I am a firm believer in the 98-99% effective statistic.)
I can't say which is the right and wrong decision - but I understand that both of these women thought it through for a LONG time and shed many, many tears over it. While I wish that people would learn some damn responsibility, I can't say that taking the choice away and forcing a woman to bear a child as "punishment" for her poor judgement is the right thing to do. Bottom line is, I'm pro-choice and I don't think abortion rights are going away anytime soon, but I really wish that more people would THINK before they get naked and take the proper steps to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
(Just adding that I know there's no such thing as "100% effective" birth control...but I am a firm believer in the 98-99% effective statistic.)
I personally think it is no-one elses business aside from the 'Mother' and 'Father' of the child.
The whole 'Pro life'arguement is yet another case of others (who more than likely havn't been in that situation themselves) sticking their noses in other people's lives and telling them what they can or cannot do. If it is legal in the eyes of the goverment then it shouldn't be an issue. Land of the free indeed :/
The whole 'Pro life'arguement is yet another case of others (who more than likely havn't been in that situation themselves) sticking their noses in other people's lives and telling them what they can or cannot do. If it is legal in the eyes of the goverment then it shouldn't be an issue. Land of the free indeed :/