Poll: Am I a Bad Person?

[moretimethansense]

Responses in bold

The relatives did nothing wrong. The drunken idiot did something wrong. Taking it out on the relatives IS AN UNJUST ACT.

The reletives are using guilt and emotional blackmail in order to get what they want, their reasons don't matter thay are asking for money from the very same people their relative may have killed by preforming that stupid act, if you would be willing to give money to someone that may well have killed you go right ahead, me I'll be over here with the sane people.

That's extremely cynical. Not necessarily wrong, but very cynical.
For once I'd have to agree, my world view is a cynical one but it is a view I firmly believe in.

Also justice is an abstract concept, there is no such thing as a just or unjust act, in some countries killing a woman that has had sex outside of wedlock is justice, many would disagree.

Justice is not, actually, abstract. Just about every culture has had the same concept of justice, albeit with different results. Justice is all about balance. It's about things being equal. Is being stoned to death in the street equivalent to sex outside of wedlock? In theory, but that hardly seems to matter to the discussion at hand.
The concept of justice is common, the values however are not.
my point is that objectivly justice does not exsist (though objectivly neither does love and I believe in tyhat just fine) I just take issue with an objective set of values being forced on people.

Justice can actually be explained physically through Newtons Third Law of Motion. For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction. Again, is sex outside of wedlock equal to death? Not really, but people don't tend to think these things through very often.
Hence why I say it doesn't exsist, if there was such a thing as an undenyably "just" or "unjust" act humanity as a whole would share it.

Finally, why would I seek forgiveness for my attitude and my beliefs?
They are mine, disagree with them as you will but I will not apologize for them, to do so would be to deny who I am, and let me assure you denying who you are leads to some serieous mental health issues down the road.

Forgiveness is not about being someone you are not, it's about acknowledging who you are and the ramifications you have had on others.
My point is that I'm not sorry, and I feel that I have nothing to be sorry for
Being sorry you hurt someone is not a mental illness. Wanting to change what you did is not a mental illness. You do not seek forgiveness for beliefs,
I never said it was, I said that supressing your beliefs can lead to mental problems, as can supressing your sexuality.
Doing something that you know in your heart is wrong can lead to emotional instability, especially if that action is forced upon you.
you seek forgiveness for actions. Actions that harm others. This is not mental illness.
You seek forgivness if you feel that you need to atone, I don't.

You can say that telling a grieving family off for what their hurt/dead family member did is the right course of action. I disagree entirely, but that's fine. That's your decision. I'm not going to ask you to do anything you don't think is right.

1. There is no "right" course here.
2. As I said I'm not attacking the family for the idiot's actions, I'm attacking them for their own.

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

The reletives are using guilt and emotional blackmail in order to get what they want, their reasons don't matter thay are asking for money from the very same people their relative may have killed by preforming that stupid act, if you would be willing to give money to someone that may well have killed you go right ahead, me I'll be over here with the sane people.

That's extremely cynical. Not necessarily wrong, but very cynical.
For once I'd have to agree, my world view is a cynical one but it is a view I firmly believe in.

Also justice is an abstract concept, there is no such thing as a just or unjust act, in some countries killing a woman that has had sex outside of wedlock is justice, many would disagree.

Justice is not, actually, abstract. Just about every culture has had the same concept of justice, albeit with different results. Justice is all about balance. It's about things being equal. Is being stoned to death in the street equivalent to sex outside of wedlock? In theory, but that hardly seems to matter to the discussion at hand.
The concept of justice is common, the values however are not.
my point is that objectivly justice does not exsist (though objectivly neither does love and I believe in tyhat just fine) I just take issue with an objective set of values being forced on people.

Justice can actually be explained physically through Newtons Third Law of Motion. For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction. Again, is sex outside of wedlock equal to death? Not really, but people don't tend to think these things through very often.
Hence why I say it doesn't exsist, if there was such a thing as an undenyably "just" or "unjust" act humanity as a whole would share it.

Okay, that is flat out not true. There is no "maybe, if, or but" about it. People will disagree with something because it's popular, people will disagree with something factually and provably true( http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/ ), and people will disagree with something just to be a jerk. Simply because not everyone has the same beliefs DOES NOT MEAN IT'S NOT TRUE. I mean, if that's the case than there's no such thing as truth whatsoever. Humanity can't even agree that rape, slavery, and murder are evil! Heck, I'm sure that if you tried hard enough you can find people that disagree about a simple thing like 2+2=4 and really believe it!

Absolute truth does not require everyone to believe in it.

Finally, why would I seek forgiveness for my attitude and my beliefs?
They are mine, disagree with them as you will but I will not apologize for them, to do so would be to deny who I am, and let me assure you denying who you are leads to some serieous mental health issues down the road.

Forgiveness is not about being someone you are not, it's about acknowledging who you are and the ramifications you have had on others.
My point is that I'm not sorry, and I feel that I have nothing to be sorry for

Then don't apologize. You and I both agree that people shouldn't be forced to do something they don't want to do.

Being sorry you hurt someone is not a mental illness. Wanting to change what you did is not a mental illness. You do not seek forgiveness for beliefs,
I never said it was, I said that supressing your beliefs can lead to mental problems, as can supressing your sexuality.
Doing something that you know in your heart is wrong can lead to emotional instability, especially if that action is forced upon you.

Oh, now you're just picking fights. I never suggested being forced to apologize or anything regarding it.

And that sexuality thing? We've gone to a lot of strange places with this conversation, but I flat out refuse to go there.

you seek forgiveness for actions. Actions that harm others. This is not mental illness.
You seek forgivness if you feel that you need to atone, I don't.

You can say that telling a grieving family off for what their hurt/dead family member did is the right course of action. I disagree entirely, but that's fine. That's your decision. I'm not going to ask you to do anything you don't think is right.

1. There is no "right" course here.
2. As I said I'm not attacking the family for the idiot's actions, I'm attacking them for their own.

1. There is a "right" course here. That which causes pain for no benefit is a "wrong" course of action.
2. I disagree that the family has done anything wrong in asking for help. Thus, you attacking them is wrong.

In another response you said, in essence, you wanted out of the conversation. If you wanna have the last word and leave it at "agree to disagree" I'm fine with that.

 

[Daedalus1942]

So this Tuesday 3 girls went drunk driving at 11 AM and crashed. 1 died 2 are in a coma. One of there friends came around asking for a donation to help pay there medical bills. I declined and said if theyre dumb enough to go drunk driving at 11 in the morning on a snowday when the roads are bad then they can face the consequence and pay for it themselves. I got a lot of dirty looks and i was told i was being selfish. Does this mean im a jerk or would you have done the same?

I would have been a bit more diplomatic... but you are right.
They chose to do something that dangerous, those are the consequence. Such is life.
Big wheel keeps on turning. Proud Mary keep on burning.
-Tabs<3-

 

[standokan]

Well at least they didn't kill anyone else.

 

[astrav1]

Excellent, a man after my own heart.

 

[tthor]

this feels oddly similar to my economics class- learning about the different economic philosophies, and the video we watched about the recent market crash. A lot of the economists trying to fix it were saying they need to bail out these failing companies to try to prevent all these other companies from going bankrupt as well, while the other people there were saying to let the company fail, that if they bail out this company it would cause a 'moral hazard' in which some companies would get it in their head that they don't need to worry about consequences because the government would just bail them out, and that bailing them out could even cause more trouble for the company's stock. Both these philosophies have their pros and cons, and either one could be good or bad in any given situation

I don't really think you're right or wrong here, in that these girls were acting really stupidly, but then again hindsight is always 20/20 and everyone makes mistakes. they are just different philosophies, and both have their place, you simply side with the bit more conservative philosophy in just let these people pay the consequences of their own mistakes

 

[Doom972]

When someone decides to drive drunk it's as if he decided to take a gun and randomly shoot in the streets - many families are ruined because of drunk/careless drivers.

If they asked me for a donation for a guy who wanted to start randomly shooting in the streets and somehow got hit with a ricochet in a vital organ I would reply as you. The same goes for the stupid teenagers.

 

[Hoplon]

So this Tuesday 3 girls went drunk driving at 11 AM and crashed. 1 died 2 are in a coma. One of there friends came around asking for a donation to help pay there medical bills. I declined and said if theyre dumb enough to go drunk driving at 11 in the morning on a snowday when the roads are bad then they can face the consequence and pay for it themselves. I got a lot of dirty looks and i was told i was being selfish. Does this mean im a jerk or would you have done the same?

You are a horrific nightmare of a douche bag.

Not wrong though.

Why is he?
They could have killed any number of innocent people because they were too foolish to stay in.

Sure, which is why he isn't wrong, he was how ever needlessly rude to people trying to do a good thing for their friends that are in a bad way.

Hence horrible nightmare douche bag.

So now you have to censor the truth?

Nope. but directing it at people that deserve it rather than some one trying to do a good turn would be an idea worth considering.

How is he, If the girls all had the terrible idea to go driving...drunk...on a snowday? it was comming to them. That stands on the same as..."we had sex but I didnt expect the baby, Pay for the diapers pleese" No, there were risks. If you are old enough to drink and drive you are old enough to face the consequences of it all.

Which is why he isn't wrong. But he wasn't addressing them so why bring it up?

 

[moretimethansense]

snip

lol thanks post cheered me up, I found that getting into fights with strangers on the internet is EXACTLY the same as tring to break through a brick wall with you bear fists, even when you win you still lose.here she goes

Couldn't agree more, sadly it's in my nature to argue to the bitter end.
I think it's due to my opinion never seeming to matter to people IRL giving me some kind of complex, or perhaps I'm just stubbern.

I find the funnest way to fight keyboard warriors on line is to goad them in to personal attacks and the rate their attacks to then based on originality, its fun and it pisses them off.

I'm pretty sure that qualifys as trolling, and trolling is wrong, funny! but wrong.

and now that I look at it there are several people that have point blank called the OP a Depraved arsehole and they put me on probation

I don't get the mod's decisions at times either, several people directly insult you, your sub-culture/religion/preffered media and then someone gets angry and all caps at them and then gets punished for it.
Don't get me wrong thye mods here are still better than manyt places but still, who mods the mods?

 

[moretimethansense]

In another response you said, in essence, you wanted out of the conversation. If you wanna have the last word and leave it at "agree to disagree" I'm fine with that.

Very well, I'm going to clarify two points and then I'm done.

1.

Oh, now you're just picking fights. I never suggested being forced to apologize or anything regarding it.

And that sexuality thing? We've gone to a lot of strange places with this conversation, but I flat out refuse to go there.

I didn't mean to imply that you were, I was talking about how supressing your feelings/beliefs/sexuality can affect your mental health, you seemed to misunderstand my point and I was trying explain what I meant by it, I apologize for not wording it better.

The sexuality thing?
I was merely using it as an example, I wasn't looking for a debate regarding that.

1. There is a "right" course here. That which causes pain for no benefit is a "wrong" course of action

2. I disagree that the family has done anything wrong in asking for help. Thus, you attacking them is wrong.

The mere fact that we disagree disproves your point, morality is very subjective, I believe that I'm in the right, you believe that you are.
Unfortunately (unlike in games) there's no morality gauge in real life telling us who is and who is not "right" in the end it is simply a difference in world views and beliefs.

As you suggested let's end this here, since further debate would simply devolve in to us shouting "I'm right!" "No I am!" at each other, I can't change your opinion and you can't change mine, lets leave it at that.

EDITED for spelling and to make the end make sense.

 

[Mcface]

So this Tuesday 3 girls went drunk driving at 11 AM and crashed. 1 died 2 are in a coma. One of there friends came around asking for a donation to help pay there medical bills. I declined and said if theyre dumb enough to go drunk driving at 11 in the morning on a snowday when the roads are bad then they can face the consequence and pay for it themselves. I got a lot of dirty looks and i was told i was being selfish. Does this mean im a jerk or would you have done the same?

You are a horrific nightmare of a douche bag.

Not wrong though.

Why is he?
They could have killed any number of innocent people because they were too foolish to stay in.

Sure, which is why he isn't wrong, he was how ever needlessly rude to people trying to do a good thing for their friends that are in a bad way.

Hence horrible nightmare douche bag.

So now you have to censor the truth?

Nope. but directing it at people that deserve it rather than some one trying to do a good turn would be an idea worth considering.

How is he, If the girls all had the terrible idea to go driving...drunk...on a snowday? it was comming to them. That stands on the same as..."we had sex but I didnt expect the baby, Pay for the diapers pleese" No, there were risks. If you are old enough to drink and drive you are old enough to face the consequences of it all.

Which is why he isn't wrong. But he wasn't addressing them so why bring it up?

He's telling the truth.
Truth never makes you a douche.

 

[-Ulven-]

AS my mother says... now they learned the hard way. Darwin was and is always going to be right when it comes to natural selection.

 

[Bobbity]

You're right. The girls were incredibly stupid to have done as they did,[footnote]Who gets drunk at eleven in the morning, then goes driving on icy roads?[/footnote] but you probably shouldn't have said so. This crash would have affected a lot of other people - family members, friends etc. who weren't at fault and must now deal with the consequences of the actions of those that they cared for. To have said to their faces that the girls were idiots and ask why should have to pay for it was incredibly insensitive, but I went for the third option because you were still right, and it was somewhat...[footnote]Crap. I want to say unreasonable, but it wasn't the fault of the people collecting the donations, and they're probably now in a tight spot, with the charity of others being their only means of keeping the girls alive. Also, they'd be feeling terrible. Again, that was insensitive.[/footnote] actually, I don't know how to finish that sentence.

TL;DR You were right, and it's not your responsibility to bail others out of the position that their own stupidity put them in. However, you should have been far, far more diplomatic about it, rather than upsetting the already upset friends and relatives. Actually, I changed my mind. That does make you a bad person. Not bailing these people out for their stupidity was somewhat reasonable, but making those affected feel terrible was a really bad thing to do.

 

[Lem0nade Inlay]

No, if that's your belief you can stick to it. No one has the right to judge you.

 

[House_Vet]

You probably shouldn't care much for "sensitivity" either, someone's bound to be offended at most anything these days, and if they are:
[sub]Maybe I'm just desensitized...?[/sub]

Who is this guy? He's great!

 

[michael87cn]

Lotta people replying: "I'd support any victims but the DRIVERS deserve what they got".

As far as I know, only one person can drive a car at a time. As far as I know.. there were 3 girls involved in the accident... as far as I know, there are 2 victims and 1 driver. Were they ALL being stupid? Sure. Kids do stupid things. Not a single person here can post saying they've lived a stupid-free life. It's almost a requirement to have fun in this dangerous modern world we live in, to sometimes take risks when in social environments in order to enjoy yourself.

I can tell you this much for sure; none of those kids thought they'd ever be in an accident. I really think the OP is a bad person to be so cold.

I also think this is a fake story by a very bored person.

 

[Unesh52]

snip

I voted no. I've changed my mind.

Powerful things you said there.

 

[Gigano]

Your assessment of their own guilt in their fate is correct, but the thing about brutal honesty is that it's... well, brutal.

While honesty can never be "bad", I would've still opted to decline with some white lie. Unless they were friends of mine, then of course I would've donated.

...Not that I generally concern myself with what opinions of mine others might take offence at. But given that they didn't end up hurting anyone but themselves, and the gravity of their "punishment", drawing attention to their stupidity in front of their friends seems somewhat uncalled for.

 

[Verlander]

You are a bad person, firstly for not caring about people, and secondly, because what you said was inappropriate at the the time.

Your opinion is correct, but the fact that you let that override any sense of morality is what seals it. You aren't far up the bad scale, just reasonably up the asshole scale

 

[TilMorrow]

Oh god not another real life choice that can be seen differently from either side.

ON one hand I would say your actions are slightly selfish. You could have donated 10 of whatever is the currency of your country. IT's not like it doesn't grow on trees! Oh wait...

ON the other hand you are in the right. Why are their friends and family unable to use insurance or their own money to pay for their medical bills? I mean it was their own choice to go and do something as stupid as that. I blame the drink. Tell them to sue the company that supplied the drinks they drank for the money to pay the bills.

Universely, no your not a jerk but your actions can be seen as jerky.

I myself may have not done what you did but I would have to be in the situation at the time to know for sure.

Also before anyone else says it and if someone else already has damn ninja.
[sub]Darwinism?[/sub]