Poll: And for his 2000th post... Stem Cells

[G1eet]

I support the research of stem cells from non-fetal sources.

Hmmm. I also support the use of research of fetal sources if the parents want to do it wholeheartedly, and if the fetus died of natural causes (please don't get me started on abortion, that's a whole other tale entirely).

 

[Neonbob]

I've heard that diabetes could be cured by using stem cells, so for purely selfish reasons, I'm all for them.

You have diabetes?.

I really don´t care about them.I don´t hate them or anything.It's just the fact that no one i know needs the cure stem cells provide.

I do indeed.
Yay for failing pancreases!

 

[SomethingUnrelated]

Hopefully, they'll be able to perfect the research and methods, and have a cure for people who need tissue regeneration or cell regrowth. The possibilities are nigh endless, and it will revolutionise medicine.

 

[Timotei]

I've heard that diabetes could be cured by using stem cells, so for purely selfish reasons, I'm all for them.

You have diabetes?.

I really don´t care about them.I don´t hate them or anything.It's just the fact that no one i know needs the cure stem cells provide.

*Gasp* Diebeetus?!?

OT: I'm one for stem cell research, however I'm not the type who believes in clone farming for stem cells.

[small]We have illegitimate children for that[/small]

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Neutral-to-against. Stem cell research represents a leap in human understanding of medicine that I frankly don't think humanity is ready for yet. We have severely over-populated the planet already, is advancing medicine to keep an ever expanding population growing even further and faster and eating up more resources really going to create a better world for the future generations?

Research? Yes. Actually use this kind of stuff wholesale on humanity? No.

 

[p3t3r ismyslave]

to kool for stem cells

 

[Robert632]

well, i won't try anything into it until they've got it down to an art, but i'm definatly in favour of reserching it.

 

[Chaos Bringer]

I probably would do it if something went wrong with me.

 

[Skeleon]

Oh, stem cell research is great, especially if it's limited to left-over embryonic tissue from in vitro fertilisation and such. Those embryos are frozen and never to be used to become actual human beings anyway.

I'm opposed to actually creating embryos for the sole purpose of research, though.

Also, widespread testing is always necessary with new therapies, so the first poll option it is.

 

[Sethzard]

We should research first, but i'm all in favour of them

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I'm all for them. It's not like, say, AI, and the behaviour of which will be unpredictable, but stem cells will simply push medicine forwards, as well as potentially curing thousands of hideous medical problems.

Neutral-to-against. Stem cell research represents a leap in human understanding of medicine that I frankly don't think humanity is ready for yet. We have severely over-populated the planet already, is advancing medicine to keep an ever expanding population growing even further and faster and eating up more resources really going to create a better world for the future generations?

Research? Yes. Actually use this kind of stuff wholesale on humanity? No.

Tell all the cripples etc that they aren't ready to be cured. See how that one goes down. And you're argument is flawed. Humanity is expanding, but stem cells won't help it expand by resurrecting the dead or allowing people to survive AIDS, bullets, or anything like that - it'll just provide a better quality of life to many people with genetic problems, missing limbs and so on.

Uhm... I am afraid it is not my argument that is flawed, but your understanding of it. It will enable people to survive AIDS, bullets, and stuff like that. Got a bullet through your liver? Stem cells will let them grow you a new one. Heart disease at 69 and ready for the off? Stem cells will keep you going for a few more years. Parkinsons disease or paraplegia? Never mind. We can just make you some more nerve cells.

I'd rather just let the research drop, or research it quietly out of sight and out of mind, than explain to the future generations that we opened a Pandoras box that transformed the earth into a sprawling urban hellhole.

 

[Monkeytacoz]

sounds tasty

 

[bcponpcp27]

Adult stem cells have already been used to treat many diseases. And I learned this at a conservative private school, so their bias is against them. But they showed that yes, adult stem cells HAVE been used to successfully treat many diseases. I am in full support of further research and use.

 

[Dyp100]

I think there going to be a mayor breakthrough in science and stem cells will help humanity overcome MANY things, and generally make us all better.

They need a lot more funding and for people to STFU as we don't need fetuses anymore to get them, but still...Plus we need research in more countries then the US.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Meh.
For the fragile people, yes.
As a reference, the target sugar level is 120.
I've been beyond what the meter can register (600+) and down to 29 without passing out, so I'm pretty sure I can handle the cake.
Plus, insulin pumps fucking RULE.

Spoiler: And this is for you

Well, that's an interesting bit of tidbit to hear. 600+, eh? Were you drinking pancake syrup?
And Whooo! I met my cursed-by-Mustachioed-British-Admiral-posters quota for the day! Yaaaay!!

EDIT: oh bugger. Wrong description of facial hair. Fix'd.

 

[Neonbob]

Meh.
For the fragile people, yes.
As a reference, the target sugar level is 120.
I've been beyond what the meter can register (600+) and down to 29 without passing out, so I'm pretty sure I can handle the cake.
Plus, insulin pumps fucking RULE.

Spoiler: And this is for you

Well, that's an interesting bit of tidbit to hear. 600+, eh? Were you drinking pancake syrup?
And Whooo! I met my cursed-by-Mustachioed-British-Admiral-posters quota for the day! Yaaaay!!

EDIT: oh bugger. Wrong description of facial hair. Fix'd.

No, the last time was during a volleyball tournament. I'd been drinking lots of gatorade, and I thought my site was in.
Turns out it was not, and my sugars were skied for an hour.
Really fucking irritating hour...

 

[firedfns13]

They've figured out how to attack/vaccinate against viruses by targetting the "lollipop" part instead of the top of the virus. It's only a matter of time until they adapt it from Influenza to HIV (which they should have done already in my mind...)

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I'm all for them. It's not like, say, AI, and the behaviour of which will be unpredictable, but stem cells will simply push medicine forwards, as well as potentially curing thousands of hideous medical problems.

Neutral-to-against. Stem cell research represents a leap in human understanding of medicine that I frankly don't think humanity is ready for yet. We have severely over-populated the planet already, is advancing medicine to keep an ever expanding population growing even further and faster and eating up more resources really going to create a better world for the future generations?

Research? Yes. Actually use this kind of stuff wholesale on humanity? No.

Tell all the cripples etc that they aren't ready to be cured. See how that one goes down. And you're argument is flawed. Humanity is expanding, but stem cells won't help it expand by resurrecting the dead or allowing people to survive AIDS, bullets, or anything like that - it'll just provide a better quality of life to many people with genetic problems, missing limbs and so on.

Uhm... I am afraid it is not my argument that is flawed, but your understanding of it. It will enable people to survive AIDS, bullets, and stuff like that. Got a bullet through your liver? Stem cells will let them grow you a new one. Heart disease at 69 and ready for the off? Stem cells will keep you going for a few more years. Parkinsons disease or paraplegia? Never mind. We can just make you some more nerve cells.

I'd rather just let the research drop, or research it quietly out of sight and out of mind, than explain to the future generations that we opened a Pandoras box that transformed the earth into a sprawling urban hellhole.

No, i'm pretty certain you don't grasp stem cells.
If you have a bullet through your liver, you'll be dead in minutes through blood loss, if you get through the usually lethal system shock caused by bullets.
How will it allow someone to survive AIDS? It's not nano-tech. HIV is a virus, and you can't regrow anti-bodies, so if you contract HIV, you will still succumb to AIDS (ignoring HIV medication) even with the knowledge of stem cell research. Yes it will allow new organs, so granted it could extended people's lives, but it's hardly nano-tech. People will still die through heart attacks, obesity and car crashes, so to say it'd cause everyone to become practically immortal is ridiculous.
And who are you to say to people with Parkinsons' "tough sh*t"? I'm guessing you live in a cozy bubble where no one you know has such illnesses. Would you really deny someone like Stephen Hawkins an able body on some paranoid idea of stem cells being the new apocalypse?

Hmmm.. You are wrong on pretty much everything there. In fact it is amazing you don't see it, because it is as obvious as a traffic cone on an anteater. Taking the example of AIDS for a second, if someone get AIDS at the moment, they will eventually succumb to complications due to the illness. With stem cells, damaged organs can be repaired and the AIDS victim kept alive for a lot longer. Bullet through the liver means you die in minutes? Well I am not sure where you got your degree Doctor, but I don't think it was a very good medical school you attended. People have been shot in the brain and survived.

Urban hellhole? Wow, that's a jump in logic if I saw one. Stem cells = better medical treatment, therefore the world will go to sh*t.
Because that makes perfect sense...

It is not a jump in logic to assume that on a profoundly overpopulated planet allowing the population to just carry on expanding and consuming all in its path will lead to dire cosequences. It is not I who is in a cozy bubble, complacent about the havoc my species is unleashing upon the world it depends on, but you. We are already at breaking point. It is the fact I am looking beyond my cozy bubble that I understand that.

 

[Tharwen]

I just watched a documentary on this. I suspect you might have just done the same.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Bugger off to the Somme and tell those guys that they are just pussies for not taking a bullet like a man. At this point it'd be charitable just to label you as a bit of a d*ck.

How gracious.

Also, you might find this article informative.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/doctor-tells-of-a-19-gunshot-wound-survivor/

And learn what AIDS is. It's an auto-immune deficiency; a problem/lack of immune system rather than organs just dying as you seem to think. If you tried operating on an AIDS victim to replace organs, have fun trying to keep infection at bay, unless you think everyone with AIDS will happily become Bubble Boy. Not to mention, if you contract HIV, unless you have it for 20 years, how the hell are you going to just make a liver? Do you really think you could put a 5 year old liver into a body of a 35 year old man? Look up Dolly the sheep, see how that turned out.

Precisely. AIDS is an autoimmune virus, it isn't lethal by itself. What it does do is prevent the bodies defenses from combating other harmful organisms that attack it, and these attack it by attacking the various bodily functions. Is someone with AIDS getting renal failure [http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/524226]? Stem cells to the rescue [http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/57/3/299]. How about liver failure [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9408969]? Well lets just break out the stem cell kit again [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4573453.stm].

And as I have shown, stem cells is more to do with improving the quality of life for the unlucky few who have neurological conditions - it is certainly not the key to immortality. Plus, what dire consequences? Unless you are a messenger from the future, keep your pessimistic prophesies to yourself - I like dealing with facts.
Breaking point? What the hell are you on about?

All you have shown is the depth and breadth of your own ignorance, unfortunately, and an unwillingness to deal with facts you do not like. Hardly suprising.

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/281

Three Choices

Considering the utter necessity of population reduction, there are three obvious choices awaiting us.

We can-as a society-become aware of our dilemma and consciously make the choice not to add more people to our population. This would be the most welcome of our three options, to choose consciously and with free will to responsibly lower our population. However, this flies in the face of our biological imperative to procreate. It is further complicated by the ability of modern medicine to extend our longevity, and by the refusal of the Religious Right to consider issues of population management. And then, there is a strong business lobby to maintain a high immigration rate in order to hold down the cost of labor. Though this is probably our best choice, it is the option least likely to be chosen.

Failing to responsibly lower our population, we can force population cuts through government regulations. Is there any need to mention how distasteful this option would be? How many of us would choose to live in a world of forced sterilization and population quotas enforced under penalty of law? How easily might this lead to a culling of the population utilizing principles of eugenics?

This leaves the third choice, which itself presents an unspeakable picture of suffering and death. Should we fail to acknowledge this coming crisis and determine to deal with it, we will be faced with a die-off from which civilization may very possibly never revive. We will very likely lose more than the numbers necessary for sustainability. Under a die-off scenario, conditions will deteriorate so badly that the surviving human population would be a negligible fraction of the present population. And those survivors would suffer from the trauma of living through the death of their civilization, their neighbors, their friends and their families. Those survivors will have seen their world crushed into nothing.

The questions we must ask ourselves now are, how can we allow this to happen, and what can we do to prevent it? Does our present lifestyle mean so much to us that we would subject ourselves and our children to this fast approaching tragedy simply for a few more years of conspicuous consumption?

Those are facts that are indeed hard to deal with.